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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: Chris. on 13 June 2012, 19:10

Title: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 13 June 2012, 19:10
Im on rebuilding my 1.8T ready for a T04e turbo.

I have a set of IE forged rods, piper vernier and a few other goodies.  I plan on running water Meth aswell.

I really need to know whether or not I should get a set of forged pistons aswell, or will the stock mahle AGU jobbies be alright?

Obvilously I get lower compression ratio aswell with a set of pistons aswell, which helps.

Anyone ideas?

Chris
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 13 June 2012, 19:13
might as well if your doing everything else. :cool:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Toby on 13 June 2012, 20:25
Might aswell! I need to do mine  :grin:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 13 June 2012, 20:28
499 for wossner's.
Stock piston rings are 80quid so only really costing me 420 for the pistons.

8.5 compression ratio, and can go up to 82.5mm but I'd get 82mm making capacity: 1825cc up from 1781cc
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 13 June 2012, 20:41
re bore??? take it to 2008cc
2.0 FSI crank
83mm pistons

sounds nice :cool:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 12:54
Wont be going stroker.

Can get wossner or JE pistons for under £500, so which brand would people go for?

Both have 8.5:1 compression ratio from 9.5 standard.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 16 June 2012, 13:39
what about BAM pistons good for 500bhp and lower comp ratio of 9.0:1 and cheaper option than wossner & JE plus they use 20mm wrist pins
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 13:44
I could say agu ones are good for 400 but by time I buy new rings that's 80ish it's worthwhile going fully forged and even lower cr
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 16 June 2012, 14:00
sorry dont mean hijack the thread but would you need a rebore to run the 82mm piston?
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 14:09
Yeah.  Stock bore is 81mm.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 16 June 2012, 14:13
cheers chris might look into this one as well, you going for a higher lift cam?
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 14:16
Have thought of it, but its a lot more.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 16 June 2012, 14:58
what about AGU or BAM pistons and a de compression plate to lower the comp ratio? just trying to say a bit of £££ lol
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: golf-sib on 16 June 2012, 18:49
I'd go, rods and pistons at that level. Also remember to rebuild the vavletrain issues on the exhaust side start around 350bh, so you may as well upgrade all that. Then you have question about uprated drive shafts, injectors, bigger maf or non-maf setup. Then with agu you have no traction with that power so you may want to get some AUM loom which gives you a electronic throttle and management in, some people drop the VVT into the engine with the 7.5 management or going for a different ECU system altogether.

Hope you have thought all this through, DIY route is like 9k at least by the time you have made everything reliable. You may also encounter gearbox issues as well on top of this.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 18:57
I cant see it costing me that much. But its not cheap :(
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 16 June 2012, 18:58
I think I get this thread  :grin:

How much power are you aiming for?

Head studs? Different fuel pump? Bigger turbo?

Would the stock turbo be able to provide you with enough power if you uprate all of that?
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: golf-sib on 16 June 2012, 19:10
I think I get this thread  :grin:

How much power are you aiming for?

Head studs? Different fuel pump? Bigger turbo?

Would the stock turbo be able to provide you with enough power if you uprate all of that?

Stock turbo is way to small for 400bhp, even if it is hybrid. T3/4 turbo's vary alot, with a 2.5" to 3.0" inlet, standard k03/4 turbo's are just tiny snails

Think you get a wossner rod and piston kit around the £900, Supertech valve kit is about £600, but with head off, I'd be tempted to go out and uprate the cams aswell. All depends what your after.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 19:22
True,

I have a set of IE rods now, they set me back £300, manual IE tensioner - £120, Piper vernier - £50, Pistons are going to be just shy of £500.

Id probably stick with OE cams for now, until I know the rebuilt lump is doing ok, then power can be chucked in.

400bhp is a nice figure.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: golf-sib on 16 June 2012, 19:37
True,

I have a set of IE rods now, they set me back £300, manual IE tensioner - £120, Piper vernier - £50, Pistons are going to be just shy of £500.

Id probably stick with OE cams for now, until I know the rebuilt lump is doing ok, then power can be chucked in.

400bhp is a nice figure.

Do the valves for that power, you should be able to raise the limiter as well with that power as well, considering the t304 is able to supply 1bar easily at top end. Maybe look at a stroker setupd in the future too to up the spool rate and efficiency in the power.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 16 June 2012, 19:43
True,

I have a set of IE rods now, they set me back £300, manual IE tensioner - £120, Piper vernier - £50, Pistons are going to be just shy of £500.

Id probably stick with OE cams for now, until I know the rebuilt lump is doing ok, then power can be chucked in.

400bhp is a nice figure.

Nice! What sort of turbs will you be looking at the reach that magical number? What else in the CAR would you need uprate to be able to make 400ponies reliable?  :undecided:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 19:46
Im toying with valves, just still not 100%,  I know I should do them, but its £580ish imported from rosten performance for them.  Hefty amount of money.

I aim to make the manifold pretty long, similar to this one, which ill probably copy my design off to keep the heat away from the head; the biggest killer of valves.

(http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n510/grahams81/DSC01138.jpg)
(http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n510/grahams81/DSC01134.jpg)

Should help.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: golf-sib on 16 June 2012, 19:47
T304 can do it, but there;s so many different variations of the said turbo, internal wise you need, rods, valves and pistons

External issues will be driveshafts, gearbox and clutch. Prob look at a stage 3 or 4 kit clutch, ie paddle clutch.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 19:48
True,

I have a set of IE rods now, they set me back £300, manual IE tensioner - £120, Piper vernier - £50, Pistons are going to be just shy of £500.

Id probably stick with OE cams for now, until I know the rebuilt lump is doing ok, then power can be chucked in.

400bhp is a nice figure.

Nice! What sort of turbs will you be looking at the reach that magical number? What else in the CAR would you need uprate to be able to make 400ponies reliable?  :undecided:
Going to stick a T04e on.  Nick has one running about 440ish with relatively decent spool times.    To make it reliable theres a lot of work, rods, pistons, head - depending on manifold, and thats before chassis uprated parts. Ill be running stock AGU shafts and no diff for time being.  Scared of nothing me!
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: golf-sib on 16 June 2012, 19:52
Deffo get valves, supertech do a good set:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Supertech-Dual-Valve-Springs-Retainers-Valves-Performance-Kit-Audi-VW-1-8T-20v-/160803314835?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item25709fdc93

Not cheap but I would do it, known issues at 350+ with exhaust valves.

Regarding driveshafts I was advised to use raxles, and a diff will help the gearbox hugely
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 19:55
Always sketchy about ordering from the US.  Import taxes and UK taxes could make things VERY expensive.

Few kits in the EU you can piece together and no import tax stings. ;)
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 16 June 2012, 20:06
Those above pics...NOMNOMNOM!!!!

You fabricating the mani your self?  :shocked:

I won't lie, I have no idea what that turbo is or where it is from  :tongue:

No LSD? Are you mad!???????????!!? :grin:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: DunnDeal12 on 16 June 2012, 20:13
1.8t 4 motion is a must
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 16 June 2012, 20:57
Not scared lol.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: dan2252 on 17 June 2012, 13:09
a lad who lives near me has a mk4 with 440 bhp and its undriveable lol my 200 ish bhp is faster off the line as he just can not put power down! haha
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 17 June 2012, 13:36
a lad who lives near me has a mk4 with 440 bhp and its undriveable lol my 200 ish bhp is faster off the line as he just can not put power down! haha

What is the problem, too much power? Wider wheels? LSD? Better tyres?
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 17 June 2012, 13:47
A lad who Nick mapped a car for runs his down the strip, 500bhp with NOS and had no diff at the time and that still does  very well.  Power isnt on and off, it has to be caressed ahahaha
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 17 June 2012, 14:17
A lad who Nick mapped a car for runs his down the strip, 500bhp with NOS and had no diff at the time and that still does  very well.  Power isnt on and off, it has to be caressed ahahaha

That is just daft!  :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :evil:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 17 June 2012, 14:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPS3oF50C7g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dkz_S6hyvw

:)
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 17 June 2012, 15:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPS3oF50C7g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dkz_S6hyvw

:)

Nom nom nom. Wicked cool man  :smiley:

Daily driver or just a drag ting? :laugh:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 17 June 2012, 15:07
weekend toy i think.  But knowing me, id end up driving it every day!
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: scarr89 on 17 June 2012, 15:20
I'd love to see the specs of those cars that ran above... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 17 June 2012, 15:21
Black golf is a Ebay T04e, ebay wastegate, custom manifold, Mapped by r-tech, 3" exhaust, and probably a few other little things.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: dan2252 on 17 June 2012, 16:34
hes making it into a 4mo ive heard. as he has some sort of semi slik tyres which wernt cheap and hes running 18s i think once hes upto 70 or so on a warm day youve got no chance of catching him lol its just off the lights all that power just gets spun up! and he has a diff it wernt cheap il find out which type it is.
Title: Re: Forged Pistons or Not?
Post by: Chris. on 17 June 2012, 16:42
Quaiffe Diff, only got put in last week so those videos were with no diff.  Heard nothing about it going 4mo?