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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Deefadog on 11 June 2005, 22:18

Title: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 11 June 2005, 22:18

This is driving me mad!!! I have replaced the wiper arm today and the relay, no difference (even taken the rear mechanism out and really greased it)! it seems to be out of sequence, like it does 90% of a cycle each time , so the rear wiper ends up in different positions each time!!

I think at some point a previous owner has tried to to the lay flat trick, but messed it up!

Can some please, pleaser, please  take a pic of there rear wiper mechanism inside the car so i can see the postions of the arms, i should be able to put it back to normal from that.

Cheers

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Mr Blue on 11 June 2005, 22:24

tighten the bolt that hold the wiper in place. migt be slipping

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 11 June 2005, 22:56

I have tried, seems solid, damn thing :)

I really need a pic to see if the arms are out of sink!

Go on mate you know you want to take a pic :) what else you got to do on a sunday LoL

seriously, it would really help me out!!

And i got a brand new Fiat marea estate rear wiper arm coming on Tuesday!!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: chubby on 11 June 2005, 23:52

if the nut is tight and the splines are ok it could be the motor its self thats faulty.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 12 June 2005, 11:19

Could be mate, as it only does half a sweep! say from flat, it will go to the up position only! i think it should g back to where it started from at just one push, the relay clicks exactly in time also, not sure if this is right?? (i have tried anthor relay and it's the same, so i can rule that out!

I'll have a play again today, then it's of to egay for another motor or if any one has one here  :wink: :wink:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Mr Blue on 12 June 2005, 13:58

i would take a pic but i bolted my rear cover on and its missions to undo :laugh:

undo that 10mm bolt at the motor end and lay the wiper flat. switch the wiper on/off a few times and then bolt it back up again???  :undecided:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 12 June 2005, 14:45

Cheers, did all that took it all apart, but still the same. :(

Just to clear up! from the flat position does your wiper go up and come back down on one full cycle? or does it go from flat to up position then stop and come back to the flat positon on the next cycle?

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Mr Blue on 13 June 2005, 14:28

Probs abit late now but i was changing the boot clips with new ones which accidently slipped into my pocket at the scrappy.

so while the cover was off i took some picks just for you deffa.

im such a nice person :smiley: :cool:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/sat1s1ngh/NewPic014.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/sat1s1ngh/NewPic013.jpg)

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 13 June 2005, 14:54

Thanks mate, your a star! Was your wiper in the lay flat positon when you took these shots?

Also Just to clear up! from the flat position does your wiper go up and come back down on one full cycle? or does it go from flat to up position then stop and come back to the flat positon on the next cycle?

Cheers

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: takethefifth on 13 June 2005, 16:17

Hi Deefa,  the wiper should wipe and return to its original position in one movement.  The position of the link arm to the motor is no different for standard or lay flat. To get the wiper flat you take it off and move it leaving all the inside links as they were.  Then i think there is something about bending it a bit to get it properly flat but i don't know about that really!
J.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Mr Blue on 13 June 2005, 16:24

its in the lay flat position deffa. forgot to mention that.

mine goes up and back down again without any pauses :smiley:

 :cool:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 13 June 2005, 20:25

Looks like my motor is dying thena it only does half a turn! I just ordered one today £15 delivered! hopefully that will fix it :)

Thanks for all your help, i'll post pics of my Fiat marea wiper when it comes :)

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 14 June 2005, 21:01

Right! that's it i am scraping her :)

I changed over the motor and it's still the same!

So i have tried 2 different motors, 2 different relays, 2 different wiper stalks!  What else could it be?

The motor turns aniclockwise for about 1.5 - 2 seconds! each time and coinsides with the relay clicks!

Should it turn one way and then the other?

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: ...joe on 14 June 2005, 21:51

take it off and smooth up the rear end!!! you know its the only way! :wink:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 14 June 2005, 21:57

I did that on my last one, it did look good! but i aint got the funds at the moment :(

My Fiat Marea wiper arm looks the dogs though! :)

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Organisys on 14 June 2005, 22:45

Could be broken wire from tailgate into car??  :shocked:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 14 June 2005, 22:53

Yeah, i am going to check that, maybe it needs to signals or something to return??

If it is a broken wire i will beat it first then repair it  :laugh:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: takethefifth on 15 June 2005, 00:38

When i got my last gti the wiper was rusted solid. When i swapped it over and put it back i got the same problem you got that the wiper woudn't return.

Don't know if this is the same but it was because i hadn't put the push rod things from the motor to the wiper arm back on in the correct position. Once i checked a friends golf and put them back correctly it worked fine. It did take me a while of messing around first though, it all looked fine i swear....! Thinking my relay was knackered and stuff...

Anyway i hope yours is the same!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 15 June 2005, 07:45

you mean the rods could be on the wrong way around or something? I know Sir Blue took pics i'll see if i can make out from them :) if not and you feel like taking a few shot of the whole area, go for it :) would help out to see different ones anyway.

cheers

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: knobby on 15 June 2005, 08:29

Mine works fine.. I'll take some pictures for you today. shall post them later..
Cheers

Dave

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 15 June 2005, 09:02

Thanks knobby, that's real kind!

While your there Could you check something for me.  when the wiper is activated, does the click on the relay coinside with the wiper movement, i guess it should click first to start the arm off and click again to stop it! but maybe the relay clicks off and the wiper arm returns after the click?

Cheers

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 15 June 2005, 20:05

Ok, had another play, i now know the motor just turns one way and the inner arm moves around to make the wiper arm come back, it should do one full revolution,  i attached some tape to the motor and it only turned the same, slightly differently each time and each time was about 55-65% of the turn!

I took the gromet off and the wires are fine!

I put a multimeter to the motor connection and each time i get a different reading, 11.46V, 10.21V, 11.41V, 10.38V etc

so there is not enough power or the power is not being supplied for the correct period of time! The relay is fine as Gambit sent me one to test and they both are the same!

o yeah, there is a spade connector attached to the body of the motor, should something be attached to this?

So the big question what next?

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: takethefifth on 15 June 2005, 22:03

(http://www.tt5th.co.uk/golfwiper.jpg)

This is how mine is set at rest, the motor turns only one way and occasionally stops only 80% of the way round. Still works fine though.

If not then fingers crossed the motor sorts it.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Mr Blue on 15 June 2005, 22:16

ohh sh!t i remember this problem with my helious blue golf :rolleyes:

i got away with laying the wiper flat first. then adjusted the wiper arm so that it goes below the window rubber and returns back to the bottom of the glass.  :grin:

relay used to go 'click' wiper on, 'click' wiper off. Had some earthing problems on the car aswel.

sounds like your motor is running for a few milli seconds longer and bringing the wiper back up.
its gotta be your wiper mechanism  :wink:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Organisys on 15 June 2005, 22:50

Use multimeter and check/pull/twiddle all the visible wiring, especially between tailgate and car, see if the voltage drops of suddenly when u do this, indicating a split wire.

Maybe clean up the connectors to motor, and check the earth as well (not sure where this is though!)

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: sco3y on 16 June 2005, 00:08

i have just fixed the same fault on my car and it was a wire in my case.
wiper had a mind of its own but when you wash the rear window by pulling the wiper stalk it would give 5 good sweeps then stop before the cycle finished.
previous owner had removed the tailgate at some time and cut the wires at the top of the tailgate then fixed them back up with terminal blocks, he cut the rubber that keeps the rain out as well and water got in and rusted up the bare wire in the terminal blocks which led to the wires breaking away.
i had to cut a fair bit of wire off cos the rust wasted the wire.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 16 June 2005, 08:39

Thanks tt5th - is your car a right hand drive? as my motor is on the other side :) looks the same set up though!

Blue - so when the clicks stop, should the wiper continue to after the click to rest position?

Organisys - i think it might be an earth fault also!I think there may be two power leads going to the wiper,  i think that first click on the relay sends the power to first move the wiper and second click sends a signal to bring the wiper back to rest. it's the second click that nothing happens!

I may have to pull all the wiring out and have  good look, of couse it may be at the rear of the fuse box or down the side of the car, anywhere really :) it will be the last place i look  :grin:

sco3y - yeah maybe something similar and as when you i do the wash also it goes for the cycle and ends up in random place again!

Do any of you have anything connected to that spade on the wiper motor?

Thanks for all your help on such a minor matter, but it's bugging the hell out of me :)

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Mr Blue on 16 June 2005, 08:42

Quote from: deefadog on 16 June 2005, 08:39

Blue - so when the clicks stop, should the wiper continue to after the click to rest position?

yeh i think it should do that. cant remember exactly but ill check it out today just to be sure :smiley:

tt5th took the pic upside down to confuse you more deffa :laugh:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 16 June 2005, 09:31

Thanks mate, would eb nice to know about thsoe clicks :)

Can't you tell i am till half asleep :) i never noticed it was up side down  :laugh:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: GTI EDITION (aka LTD) on 16 June 2005, 09:58

Quote from: deefadog on 11 June 2005, 22:18

This is driving me mad!!! I have replaced the wiper arm today and the relay, no difference (even taken the rear mechanism out and really greased it)! it seems to be out of sequence, like it does 90% of a cycle each time , so the rear wiper ends up in different positions each time!!

I think at some point a previous owner has tried to to the lay flat trick, but messed it up!

Can some please, pleaser, please  take a pic of there rear wiper mechanism inside the car so i can see the postions of the arms, i should be able to put it back to normal from that.

Cheers

It is VERY common on for the wiring to break inside the bellows in the tailgate shut which depending on which of the wires decides to break causes problems with the rear wiper,the number plate lamps or the heated rear screen.

If I remember correctly there should be 3 wires that go to the wiper motor
                                                                                           
1/ Earth (brown)
2/ Permanent live with ignition on. (can,t remember colour :undecided:)
3/ 3rd wire which is energized when the wiper stalk is pressed forward when the relay for the intermittent wash/wipe is activated.(again can't remember colour :undecided:)
   

From the symptoms you're describing (( Quote: rear wiper ends up in different positions each time!!)) it is either a broken wire for the permanent live feed or a knackered motor as the slip rings inside can get burnt out etc but this is quite rare .In my experience it's  more likely to be the wiring .

Hope this helps :smiley:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 16 June 2005, 10:03

Cheers, at least now i nopw what i should be checking :)

Should the voltage be a constant 12V?

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Organisys on 16 June 2005, 12:15

Should be a constant value yes, may not be exactly 12v for various reasons, but should stay around the same figure.

pull and tug at the connectors and wires, especially the earth and at the 'bellows' between car and tailgate.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 16 June 2005, 12:22

ok, thanks!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: KKK on 16 June 2005, 21:02

There are three wires routed through the tailgate to the rear wiper motor:  earth, 'park' (constant live) and 'activation' (controlled by the relay).  If you take the motor apart you'll find an 'activation' track, and a 'park' track.

When you switch the rear wiper on, the 'activation' track goes live.  This moves the wiper enough to contact the 'park' track.  This makes a single sweep happen, and parks the wiper.

The relay then goes 'activation' live after a few seconds, setting off another sweep.

If the 'park' wire is broken (very common on '80s VWs with tailgates), the 'activation' part of the cycle gets the wiper moving.  When the relay cuts the current, the wiper stops.  Next time the relay kicks in, it powers round another part of the rear wiper cycle before stopping. And so on...

You need to solder a new section of wire into the loom passing through the tailgate to fix it properly.  If you plan on keeping the car for a while, replace all three wires (they all go eventually, but the 'park' wire seems to go first, maybe because it's live all the time).

KKK

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 16 June 2005, 23:04

Fantastic, well that sounds like what is wrong!

I'll pull the wires through tomorrow and get them sorted!, i'll temporary bypass the wires out side of the tailgate first to make sure it right!

cheers mate your a star!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 17 June 2005, 19:31

KKK  - Just got the multi meter on the wires! The green/black wire has 7.14V on ignition and rises to 11.46ish on the relay click!

Brown - does nothing

Black/grey - also does nothing

Before i strip the wiring does this sound like it's the wiring? should i get power through one of the other wires?

Thanks

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: KKK on 17 June 2005, 22:12

Just pull back the grommet where the tailgate meets the body.  It should be clear enough if one of the wires has broken.  You could also do a continuity test between the plugs behind the LH rear light cluster, and the plug that feeds the rear wiper motor.

KKK

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 17 June 2005, 22:15

I have pulled back the grommet, no signs of any wear at all!

"continuity test between the plugs behind the LH rear light cluster, and the plug that feeds the rear wiper motor"

Not sure what you mean, can you explain a bit more - really thick at this sort of thing, sorry!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: KKK on 17 June 2005, 22:47

The other end of the wiper motor plug runs to a couple of plugs just behind the rear light cluster (pull back the carpet).  Give the wires under the grommet a tug and you should see where the connection is.

KKK

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: takethefifth on 18 June 2005, 01:31

And apologies for the upside down pic! I had the boot open looking up at the time...  :laugh:

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 18 June 2005, 12:07

tt5th - no worries :)

KKK - Ok, i found the connector block, i disconnected it and tested it, it's the same 7.14V constant / 11.46ishV on relay!

It's the green/black wire, good news is that it's not the wiring through the tailgate, but i'll have to follow tat wireall the way through the car, yes and see if there is a break.

Question, is it the green/black wire that is at fault here? what does the black/white wire o that seems to be dead? is this the one i should be checking?

Question/favour - would you mind check both of these on yours and tell me what readings you get? it's difficult to find a fault when i don't know what the proper ratings should be :)

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Judderi on 28 June 2005, 13:59

Well yes i had the same problem as you mate but ive managed to fix it. Your on a winner with that black/white wire. Mine was clearly broken inside the grommet and after i soldered it back together and set the linkages up properly it workes a treat and parkes perfect everytime. The voltage on this wire seemed to be a constant 12v even when the wiper wasnt in use. Heres some more pics that may help you out. The linkage shows how it needs to be set if you want your wiper to lay flat. Hope it helps.

(http://img12.echo.cx/img12/3609/wires9zv.jpg)

(http://img32.echo.cx/img32/2594/wipermech6md.jpg)

(http://img40.echo.cx/img40/3237/wipermech38le.jpg)

(http://img284.echo.cx/img284/396/wipermech24qq.jpg)

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 28 June 2005, 14:45

Thanks mate! During the crash i managed to fix it, i put a new wire in for the black/white and it all works fine!

only prob is now is that when ignition is on i get 7.10ish volts throught the green/black, i have been told this should only get 12v on the relay click! it's not in the boot anyway, i have traced it that far!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Judderi on 28 June 2005, 15:59

Hey if it works i would just leave it.

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 28 June 2005, 17:20

I know, but it is drawing 7V from somewhere! thi is only on the assumption from another golf! would you mind testing it yours so i can be sure?

Thanks

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Judderi on 29 June 2005, 11:39

Will try and have a look tonight. Where do you want me to check? At the plug that goes into the motor when the ignition is on?

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 29 June 2005, 12:09

Yes cheers mate at the plug will be fine!

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Deefadog on 02 July 2005, 10:16

Mk2GTI2.016v

Did you get a chance to test the wires?

**I know i am a nag aren't I** lol


Cheers

Title: Re: Big favour for my stupid rear wiper!
Post by: Judderi on 04 July 2005, 09:05

Sorry i forgot. I will try and do it tonight for you.