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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Outlawsaffa1982 on 04 June 2012, 05:29
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Morning all.
So finally I have everything sorted on the vr, steering rack changed and going well (reduced turning circle... But feels good, and won't be a bad thing for track days). But I have noticed that when it rains or the roads are damp, I have really bad under steer and trouble getting the power down... I'm not slamming my foot to the floor, just gentle power delivery! I'm almost 100% sure this is down to the coilovers (jom's...)
So the questions are... Has anyone else experienced this? If so how did you sort it? And if anyone can off any advise it would be most gratuitously received!
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I will start with the bleedin' obvious...
Tracking and camber. Just had my 8V done and it has sorted the understeer problem.
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A vr6 will understeer more than any other mk3 due to the weight of the engine. What tyres have you got? What chassis upgrades do you have other than jom coils? (Which wont be great for the track).
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I don't see how a heavier engine will cause under steer... I mean more weight equals more contact with the road... Surely????? The tires are Perelli P6000, they are about 6 months old. I haven't made any other mods to the front end as yet.
I think it's the Jom's that are the problem... Either the ride is to stiff this not allowing the tires to grip the road correctly. I have never had this before with a VW, but in the dry she sticks like s@it to a blanket! I think its time for the coilovers to come off and a good set of lowering springs to go on!
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You have changed the suspension. Which will change geometry. If you haven't had alignment done this will be the problem. And a Heavier engine will cause understeer.
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The alignment has been done! It tracks straight and true!
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I don't see how a heavier engine will cause under steer... I mean more weight equals more contact with the road... Surely????? The tires are Perelli P6000, they are about 6 months old. I haven't made any other mods to the front end as yet.
I think it's the Jom's that are the problem... Either the ride is to stiff this not allowing the tires to grip the road correctly. I have never had this before with a VW, but in the dry she sticks like s@it to a blanket! I think its time for the coilovers to come off and a good set of lowering springs to go on!
Yes VRs understeer and running cheap coilovers will not be helping.
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More weight is good for traction in a straight line. When you want to change direction the wheels will want to turn left or right, but the weight will still want to travel in a straight line. More weight means more understeer.
The vr6 engine is infront of the front wheels. Very bad for handling in any case!
Ride night can help this or ruin it. If your vr6 is pretty low with the front lower, try raiser the front 20mm.
You can try taking the front anti roll bar out. Be surprised what that will do. I would fit a rear anti roll bar if you did. You will find it then wanting to oversteer.
Tyre pressures can change it. Try putting 30 in the front.
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VR6 engines not only weigh more the 4 cylinder variants but they also sit further forward in the engine bay which theoretically turns the front end of the car into a pendulum when thrown into the bends.
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I don't see how a heavier engine will cause under steer... I mean more weight equals more contact with the road... Surely????? The tires are Perelli P6000, they are about 6 months old. I haven't made any other mods to the front end as yet.
Working on that logic I guess we should all go and fill out inner wings and engine bays with cement? :huh: :laugh:
I think it's the Jom's that are the problem... Either the ride is to stiff this not allowing the tires to grip the road correctly. I have never had this before with a VW, but in the dry she sticks like s@it to a blanket! I think its time for the coilovers to come off and a good set of lowering springs to go on!
My guess would be that it is almost certainly the tyres, I ran Pirelli P6000's on my Mk3 and wasn't impressed with them, the wet grip was appalling. I swapped to Uniroyal Rainsports and they were excellent. Have a look at the reviews here:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/P6000.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/P6000.htm)
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Uniroyal/Rainsport-2.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Uniroyal/Rainsport-2.htm)
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All logical arguments and I think I try a few of the suggestions, see how it gets on... Many thanks guys!
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Dry settings are stiff and wet settings are very soft.
Adjustable dampening suspension will help
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I don't see how a heavier engine will cause under steer... I mean more weight equals more contact with the road... Surely????? The tires are Perelli P6000, they are about 6 months old. I haven't made any other mods to the front end as yet.
Working on that logic I guess we should all go and fill out inner wings and engine bays with cement? :huh: :laugh:
I think it's the Jom's that are the problem... Either the ride is to stiff this not allowing the tires to grip the road correctly. I have never had this before with a VW, but in the dry she sticks like s@it to a blanket! I think its time for the coilovers to come off and a good set of lowering springs to go on!
My guess would be that it is almost certainly the tyres, I ran Pirelli P6000's on my Mk3 and wasn't impressed with them, the wet grip was appalling. I swapped to Uniroyal Rainsports and they were excellent. Have a look at the reviews here:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/P6000.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/P6000.htm)
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Uniroyal/Rainsport-2.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Uniroyal/Rainsport-2.htm)
Try Toyo tr1. I had p6000 in my mk2 and I had horrible understeer as well, really had rubber. I used rainsport2s for a while at front and didn't feel confident chucking the car in. I've now gone back to tr1 and I'm much more confident in the bends. The rainsport2s have very soft sidewalls.
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I really like the t1r's got Yokohama parada spec 2's on the vr6 and once warm they are very good too. They are about the same but the t1r is softer and didn't last long. So hoppefully the spec 2's are worth the extra cash
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as the others said, hard dry/soft wet.
Works for suspension settings too, if you set up for wet and thrash it in the dry you will have more body roll and scrub out the tyres in no time, set up for dry and you will have under steer in the wet.
To be able to have your cake and eat it is going to cost a small fortune.......and make it horrible to drive on a daily basis
How Track/Daily is this car?
I'm really feeling my Bridgestone Re11's atm, except in the wet :grin:
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She is my daily drive. Hasnt been on the track yet, I wanna make sure she is 100's before I do so, don't really wanna end up in the kitty litter, or worse...
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I found the TR1 to wear really well to be honest, even though it's soft rubber.
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If you haven't had your camber done this can help.
Had mine all set up perfect and handles well. Mum took it over a curb in the snow and it's all sh!te now! :laugh:
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Update on the VR... Gonna start off with the simple things first before I start throwing money a her, well... More money :)
Anyway, checked the tyre pressure yesterday, 28 psi, I have enflated them to 35psi all round, just to see if there is any noticeable difference in handling... And hell yes there is!! The car is slightly more stable at lower speeds, but once you go over 80/90 she becomes bouncy in the front end. So I think I'm gonna lower the tyre pressure to 30 psi in the front and see if that changes anything?
As far as the coil overs go... £170 I think, down the swanny! Cheap ass sh!t!
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Try 34psi front and 30psi at the back.
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What size tyres do you have. Factory pressures for a 16v on 195/50 are 38 front 35 rear. VR6 should be the same as they are heavier up front compared to the smaller engines.
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What size tyres do you have. Factory pressures for a 16v on 195/50 are 38 front 35 rear. VR6 should be the same as they are heavier up front compared to the smaller engines.
Are you sure? Fuel cap says 33/30.
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What size tyres do you have. Factory pressures for a 16v on 195/50 are 38 front 35 rear. VR6 should be the same as they are heavier up front compared to the smaller engines.
Really???
Low pressure means soft side wall. That moves about and creates heat. Hot tyre = more grip.
And remember we are talking about "in the rain"
Fcuk having 38 up front in the rain, would be in the first ditch you see.
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Plus the fact it'd be skipping about over every particles of grit in the road due to been so firm and not allowing any bump absorption.
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My old cars wheel spin and understeer was solved by getting rid of the crap pirellis and replaced by goodyear eagle f1 assymetrics. i did spend 500 on four 18s and definitely wont spend that on my golf but they were staggering in wet and dry. The car was well sorted with fresh buahes all round and a weitec ultra gt susp kit.
Adam
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No matter how hot the tyre is, if the sidewall is on the tarmac beacuse the tyre is folding over itself, you wont be getting much grip.
Recommended tyre pressure are there for a reason. Vw wouldn't put them in the fuel flap for dry weather only. :wink:
And they are cold pressures too. Meaning that the pressure will increase as the tyre heats.
Havent found a ditch yet on those pressures in the rain. Lower profile tyres need higher pressures too, due to the usually lower load rating and smaller sidewall.
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What size tyres do you have. Factory pressures for a 16v on 195/50 are 38 front 35 rear. VR6 should be the same as they are heavier up front compared to the smaller engines.
Are you sure? Fuel cap says 33/30.
I'm sure i'd take a pic but cars not here. 205's are around 32 front 30 rear.
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Found a page that someone posted that confirms it.
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?70143-Tyre-pressures-for-GTi-16v-15inch-wheels&p=793702&viewfull=1#post793702 (http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?70143-Tyre-pressures-for-GTi-16v-15inch-wheels&p=793702&viewfull=1#post793702)
In old money means 38 front and 35 rear on a 195/50-15
Full load is 40 front 43 rear. And that from manufacturer data.