GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Dave_IOW on 20 April 2012, 21:07
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How much of an arse is this, has anyone else done this on here, what throttle bodies did you use?
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make ya foooking mind up knobjockey
abf
1.8T
or a 4x4
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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IOW DH is the ABF man you must have had a million conversation with him on this subject?
:grin:
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Wrong forum I'd say. A few on cgti. If you are gonna go down this route be prepared for lots of user input. MS is not as easy as it may appear. You should try on a plenum first. Good results can come from that on MS alone.
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make ya foooking mind up knobjockey
abf
1.8T
or a 4x4
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My idea was never 4x4.. them voices are certainly not strong enough, can obviously see benefits though.
Yes DH is the reason I'm in this predicament, although its less hassle than the 1.8t swap, so actually made things easier!
Have looked on a few cgti posts, thanks.
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it's not that hard to duff an engine with itb's together, getting it to be all it can be is much harder.
the spec othese projects also seems to evolve over time. i'm still not happy with the abf for my golf and its been getting tinkerd with for over a year now and not near going in the car. and there are a few previous versions sulking in the rain outside.
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Think chuff means a 4x4 (jeep) not a syncro lol sounds like a whole lot of expense to me!
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it's not that hard to duff an engine with itb's together, getting it to be all it can be is much harder.
the spec othese projects also seems to evolve over time. i'm still not happy with the abf for my golf and its been getting tinkerd with for over a year now and not near going in the car. and there are a few previous versions sulking in the rain outside.
Tom told me you were the man to speak to regarding all things MS, do you think its worth it to go through with it?
I've been looking all through the megasquirt site and it's very confusing.
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it's not that hard to duff an engine with itb's together, getting it to be all it can be is much harder.
the spec othese projects also seems to evolve over time. i'm still not happy with the abf for my golf and its been getting tinkerd with for over a year now and not near going in the car. and there are a few previous versions sulking in the rain outside.
What are you not happy with on it. WOT is easy enough to tune but i found driveabiltity is what takes time.
Whats the spec of it?
Smugde on cgti gave a nice 187hp on a mainly standard ABF on ITB's
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it's not that hard to duff an engine with itb's together, getting it to be all it can be is much harder.
the spec othese projects also seems to evolve over time. i'm still not happy with the abf for my golf and its been getting tinkerd with for over a year now and not near going in the car. and there are a few previous versions sulking in the rain outside.
Tom told me you were the man to speak to regarding all things MS, do you think its worth it to go through with it?
I've been looking all through the megasquirt site and it's very confusing.
This is all you need (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=203746).
Check this also (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244471)
Once you start using it it becomes clearer. But Just keep reading and read the MSextra manuals too. :wink: You can get it running well on MS1 with the extra code but people think it would be better to go MS2. This can make it more complicated as it has more 'knobs'
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the legend that is Toyotec :cool:
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180ish I would be happy with tbh.
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If your not a technical, wiring, sensors and information kind of person, dont even attempt it. If you dont mind reading lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of missinformation, contrasting methods, sensor spec sheets, wiring diagrams, dont mind doing wiring and making things and dont mind beong thoroughly confised at times then go for it :smiley:. Personally Im of the latter persuasion but I still havent finished TB'ing a mates engine after several years lol. One thing I would advise is trying to use as many of the stock sensors/ignition system as possible, this will mean having to work out how to get it all to work with the megasquirt (crank angle I seem to remember not liking the VW sensor much) but will save you the hassle of tracking down alternatives.
I went for ZX12R Throttle bodies btw, the bore spacing is pretty much spot on for the engine (and very easily modifyable to get it spot on whilst keeping the ZX fuel rail), they are pretty well matched to the airflow demands of the engine and the injectors are more than man enough for the job.
As for the mapping, once its all done and running on the road, take it to a megasquirt friendly rolling road and get them to do it for you, it will save a lot of hassle in the long run. You may think this is more expensive and that may be true, but at least it means it will run right from day one rather than being a bag of sh!te that needs constant tweekage to get it to run ok.
If I could offer you one piece of advise though, get a standard ABF installed and get that to run properly before thinking about putting it on TB's as thats reasonably well documented, gives you an imediate increase in power and teaches you enough about the system that you can progress to harder elements of the install. It also lets you know how much space you have in your engine bay for the new inlet system.
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180ish I would be happy with tbh.
girl. put a 1.8T in it you know you're gonna want 200+ eventually :tongue:
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Ahhh but the ABF makes a nicer noise. Let's face it, unless a lot of money's been spent on it a 1.8T makes a sound like an asthmatic kid being squeezed by a bear.
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The ABF has all the sensors you need. I use the 60-2 trigger wheel with internal ignitors from the MS. You can also use a KR setup with 4 window dizzy and ignition amplifier for the ignition. You can also go wasted spark using crank wheel.
For coolant and IAT you use standard vw sensors and set them up with easytherm. Its not that difficult if you read the right info.
For ITB's you should really use Alpha-N mode for this.
Get a Base map sorted so it can be started and then you can tweak. With my base map i could drive it fine was just rich.
If the correct settings are used, it shouldn't run crap. Alot of the problems are down to acceleration enrichments which is hard to do without a wideband and datalogging.
If you are gonna attempt to play with the map, and with MS you should be. Then you WILL need a wideband and gauge installed or a portable like an LM-2 to tweak fuelling. A dyno would then be needed to optimise ignition and fuel maps after.
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What I found with mine, if your going map it your self then your going to need to do lots of research, I kind of did but after a problem developed I just lost all interest as I couldnt find the problem, ended up being so simple it pisses me off now!
Wiring it up was hard at first not knowing about car electrics, but wiring up my 2nd one up was soo much easier now I knew what goes where. Once you get wired up, you could just get it on trailer a to R-tech, they quoted me £250 to do the whole lot, they would have it for about a week. So once they are done it's ready, no need to touch the map. Thats what I would of done, but instead of diagnosing a faulty fuel rail I got a new abf engine with megasquirt lol
So I have an ms1 ecu going now and a lc-1 wideband datalogger. :wink
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It would still need tweaking after a week. :wink:
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It would still need tweaking after a week. :wink:
Whys this pal, care to elaborate?
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you never stop tuneing for drivablity / power delivery
it's not that hard to duff an engine with itb's together, getting it to be all it can be is much harder.
the spec othese projects also seems to evolve over time. i'm still not happy with the abf for my golf and its been getting tinkerd with for over a year now and not near going in the car. and there are a few previous versions sulking in the rain outside.
What are you not happy with on it. WOT is easy enough to tune but i found driveabiltity is what takes time.
Whats the spec of it?
Smugde on cgti gave a nice 187hp on a mainly standard ABF on ITB's
ported solid lifter head, 290 degree cams, 13:5:1 CR. main bearing caps ladderd revs to 9k, dual fuel rails, primary rail is petrol squirts just behind butterflys, 2ndry rail is stood off the trumpets by 30mm and methanol, ms2 ecu running in alpha-N
it gets astma at 6500 sorts itself out by 7000. makes power, in a cordoba shell it's quite quick seen off most 20vts without issue just has power delivery issue that pisses me right off so your a bit weary of driveing with 100% faith. not done anything with it for months now half thinking about binning that motor and starting again with an fsi head
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you never stop tuneing for drivablity / power delivery
it's not that hard to duff an engine with itb's together, getting it to be all it can be is much harder.
the spec othese projects also seems to evolve over time. i'm still not happy with the abf for my golf and its been getting tinkerd with for over a year now and not near going in the car. and there are a few previous versions sulking in the rain outside.
What are you not happy with on it. WOT is easy enough to tune but i found driveabiltity is what takes time.
Whats the spec of it?
Smugde on cgti gave a nice 187hp on a mainly standard ABF on ITB's
ported solid lifter head, 290 degree cams, 13:5:1 CR. main bearing caps ladderd revs to 9k, dual fuel rails, primary rail is petrol squirts just behind butterflys, 2ndry rail is stood off the trumpets by 30mm and methanol, ms2 ecu running in alpha-N
it gets astma at 6500 sorts itself out by 7000. makes power, in a cordoba shell it's quite quick seen off most 20vts without issue just has power delivery issue that pisses me right off so your a bit weary of driveing with 100% faith. not done anything with it for months now half thinking about binning that motor and starting again with an fsi head
^^^ Exactly this! You can never get a fully matured map in a week. Even MS "experts" i know take weeks to get it right and still there will be things you aren't happy with. Mine is good, but its still evolving.
Its not the same as getting a factory matured and working OEM ecu map and tweaking it to your hardware. There are lots of variables that can have an effect and others that you may need and don't have that will cause you to do a workaround for.
Eg. I had an issue with hot starting, where the inlet manifold would get heat soak causing a lumpy idle for around 5-10mins or until i started driving. I managed to get it better by adjusting a few things and using gego to control the fuel. Its better now but still needs more tweaking.
Sounds an interesting engine. I'm assuming you datalogged? Have you tried MS1 extra? Not so many knobs to tweak? Saying that i'm thinking of going MS2 Extra for the extra knobs. :wink:
Is it a mapping issue or more to do with hardware?