GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: klapwijk on 20 April 2012, 18:58
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I recently had some problems with my 1.8 16v KR Mk2 Golf that I sorted. A vacuum hose came off and was causing the car to idle at 3000rpm and run like a bag of .... Sorted that and then the car was hunting very badly and idling very badly, cutting out a lot. Set up the CO to 2.05% and the idle to 1000rpm. Now that I've sorted those problems I've run into some more.
The car doesn't like starting from cold unless I feather the throttle. The car had been running ok for two days until this morning. Car started after a few seconds of feathered throttle and then about 5 miles down the road the car started to idle where I last had my foot on the throttle. Turned it off for a few minutes and then it just started hunting very badly again but the throttle didn't stick.
Got to where I needed to be and then turned the car off. Came back an hour later started it and it was ok, then suddenly it started hunting again. Then I disconnected the ISV and the revs dropped a lot and the hunting went away. Reconnected it and then restarted the car and it was fine?
When I disconnect the electrical connection to the ISV, the revs drop and then when I reconnect it while the car is running; should the revs return to normal or should I have to reconnect it? Should the car cut out when I disconnect the electrical connector on the ISV, like it does on my other golf?
Also, when adjusting the CO on the metering head with the allen key should I be able to move the VAF/metal dish in the head as well. When I was setting it up, if i pushed down the car would cut out. I presume this is because the car isn't getting any air. Is this movement of the VAF normal?
The problem seems to be very intermittent, and hasn't come back yet on my return journey home.
Thanks
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Quick update. Just been out in the car and it was fine for a bit before it started to hunt again and then very slightly kangerooing at low revs and low speeds. Again it didn't like starting from cold and idled quite poorly for the first few minutes. When it started hunting again I pulled over an disconnected the fifth injector and it made no difference. Then I disconnected the ISV while the car was running and it idled fine and no longer hunted. Reconnected it and them restarted the car and it hunted again. Drove home with it disconnected and it drove and idled perfectly fine. I'm going to try and test the temperature sensors for the ISV and see if it has any impact on it, tomorrow.
If the ISV controller was playing up what symptoms would it give?
Thanks
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Like you said mate its the controller or the ISV but I would borrow another ISV or even a controller to rule them out before spending money.
Other things are temp sensors by the side of the block check the contacts are in good order no corrosion on them!
Another one could be throttle switch is damaged near the TB hear if it clicks okay!
Final issue fifth injector could be over fueling but thats usually when under load.
Give the ISV and TB some wurth carb cleaner when its running to burn off any crap left in the systems!
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I've cleaned out the isv and tried another known working one that I gave a clean as well. Idle switch is working. The temp dash light has been lighting up so I'm going to give all the contacts a good clean and try three known working sensors. I don't like throwing parts at a car but unfortunately I need to fix the car ASAP!
To replace the isv control box is it literally just behind the centre console? TB looks to be in good condition. It I will give it a clean anyway. Checked that it is closing everyone and checked the cable to see if it's sticking at all
Thanks for your help!
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Well I've had loads of parts that looked brand new but sadly they have failed before.
It might be best to double the earth to the gear box as a future isssue you might have just bolt another earth cable to the gearbox any ring connector that fix on the bolts.
Also get some washing up liquid get the foam and spread it around the vacum pipe joints to see if you have any air leaks?
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I'll try that trick when I get home. If I didn't set the CO with the red lead disconnected do you think it would cause this problem?
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If you have multi meter there is a way to test out the ohms on the Co2 but best is to search for it on here I can't remember the rating off hand but I would do a search for it.
If you get stuck come back to me as I'm off in awhile to pick up a bike :grin:
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I've checked all three temp sensors on the side of the head. One was faulty so I've replaced it. Tested them by using the wire for the dash gauge. Cleaned all the connections for the sensors. Idles better now. The fault is still occurring but I can get rid of it by just revving the car high a few times. I'm running out of things to check now! Didn't get round to doing your washing up liquid trick!
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Well I've had the Hall sender play me some grief, but that was on a Digi?
16V should be much easier to sort?
Are you sure the ISV you have is for 16V and not 8V?
Did you change two of the sensors out near the distributor? there are two that control the ISV.
3 single pin black sensors on the side of the head which are all the same rating, blue/white for ecu, green/.red for isv controller and red/yel for the dash gauge
when was the plugs change out last?
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The ISV i changed it for is off my other 16v, which was working ok. Cleaned it our before I fitted it. I only changed one as it wasn't giving me a reading on the dash. I then double checked that all three gave a reading on the dash. The plugs haven't been changed in a while, nor has the oil. I'm thinking of disconnecting the crankcase breather and allowing it to vent to atmosphere to see if the problem is better. Only because I don't get paid until Thursday and cannot do an oil or plug change. I've heard that some people have solved idle problems because their dirty oil was allowing fumes into the air box via the crankcase breather.
Thanks for your help once again!
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The ISV i changed it for is off my other 16v, which was working ok. Cleaned it our before I fitted it. I only changed one as it wasn't giving me a reading on the dash. I then double checked that all three gave a reading on the dash. The plugs haven't been changed in a while, nor has the oil. I'm thinking of disconnecting the crankcase breather and allowing it to vent to atmosphere to see if the problem is better. Only because I don't get paid until Thursday and cannot do an oil or plug change. I've heard that some people have solved idle problems because their dirty oil was allowing fumes into the air box via the crankcase breather.
Thanks for your help once again!
Thats what I was leading to heavy oil vapour fouling the plugs could cause start up issues!
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I will check these things tomorrow. Still not sure what else to check for, the intermittent hunting is weird! Like I said, if I tap the throttle a few times it stops hunting! Any thoughts on this?
On your golf if you disconnect the isv electrical connection does it cut out? My other gomf does, but on this one the revs just drop down by a few hundred rpm?
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All I know is unless the throttle switch is in the closed position, the ISV circuit is not engaged at all.So make sure you have voltages to the micro switch. (Plus check the position of lever hits the dam switch!)
There is one more thing you can try, but it might f**k it up even more if you dont know what you are doing is to turn the idle screw out check the rubber seal is not damaged in the screw and its letting more air into the TB? (Its a brass one cant miss it! You might want to mark it with tippex first count the turns)
Some people have taken this out and can't get it back in, or its actually vibrated out and missing letting in too much air.
Try the washing up liquid foam on inlet manifold and the various vacumn hoses.
So have you mucked about with the Co screw on the air box?
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I will check these things tomorrow. Still not sure what else to check for, the intermittent hunting is weird! Like I said, if I tap the throttle a few times it stops hunting! Any thoughts on this?
On your golf if you disconnect the isv electrical connection does it cut out? My other gomf does, but on this one the revs just drop down by a few hundred rpm?
Okay weird the other ISV sounds shagged if it cuts out, becuase revs should drop, NOT cut out Possible the other golf is running on bypass?? (When a ISV is not working there is a bypass screw at the back of it (paint in yellow paint) Dont touch it its set to bypass to get you home in limp mode)
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Inlet manifold has new gaskets, I'm going to torque all the bolts up tomorrow just to check anyway. I've adjusted the micro switch and checked that the TB is not sticking at all. I've had the idle screw out and it looked like it was in ok condition. I've got another screw so may try that anyway. CO has been set up by a garage with me there to 2.05%. Weird what you've said about the limp mode as sometimes the car reads ~500rpm on the dash and sometimes 1000rpm. Although I think the dash is playing up; it does idle at about 500-800 on a cold start. I'm going to double check all the hoses tomorrow and reset the idle after checking the screw.
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No joy so far today. Took off crankcase breather pipe to air box, double checked vacuums and breathers. Disconnected overrun electrical connector and the car just idled at 2000rpm. Reset the idle speed and CO again with the red connector disconnected and it idled at 1050rpm. Switched off the car and then started it and it idled at about 900-950rpm? This has me thinking the idle controller behind the dash could be faulty. Tried disconnecting the cold start valve while it was hunting and it didn't make a difference. I am running out of ideas now!
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950RPM is about right, hunting gone? job done!
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Nope still not gone! I had the car ticking over for about 15 minutes, drove two minutes down the road and the hunting came back! It seems to do it once its up to operating temperature!
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Fifth injector could be stuck and running rich?
Give it the Italian tune up guide!
Take it on the motorway rev it up to red line then slam it into third gear that should clean some soot out of the system
(JK)
Just bite the big one and get a new ISV and controller from what you have said I dont think the other golf is running right either?
You havent done plugs and oil yet have you?
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I'll try the controller from the other golf, the other golf ran spot on. Not one thing has gone wrong with it in over a year, starts first time every time within a second. No trouble starting in the winter or rain. I think the ISV from the other one was just dirty. I've got another ISV sitting in the garage as well so I'll see how that is.
To replace the fifth injector is it just a case of unplugging it, undoing the fuel line, unbolting it and replacing it?
Haven't done plugs or oil yet, but I will get some on thursday.
What I am most confused about is why after setting up the CO it ran fine for two days; and now all of a sudden the problem has come back, but only happens when the car is warm?!
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get new plugs things have to be spot on even take one out check its running rich i.e soot!
When I speak about fifth injector the WUR could be the other fault
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I've checked all the plugs and they are dry and look ok, but i will replace them anyway on thursday. Is replacing the WUR and fifth injector just a case of unbolting, fitting a new one and then bolting it all back up?
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Yes you have the other 16ver to swap so lucky just for testing! Just make sure there is little pressure when mucking about with fuel okay! :wink:
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I'll make sure there is no pressure! need to get this one running for Big Bang next weekend or its a case of putting the other one back together!
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By the way if it was runnning fine for a few days are you sure the idle screw is not moving via vibrations and the seal is just too old tippex it and see if it deviates from that position! it might be just a simple new idle screw?
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Good idea, I'll check that. Could this also cause the hunting?
When the problem started again, ye car started idling at 3000rpm again. Thought that ye Jose that came off had come of again. Turned the car off and left it for five minutes and it was just hunting again.
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Good idea, I'll check that. Could this also cause the hunting?
When the problem started again, ye car started idling at 3000rpm again. Thought that ye Jose that came off had come of again. Turned the car off and left it for five minutes and it was just hunting again.
I once knew a chap who played about with the idle screw so much he damaged the brass screw and thats all was causing his hunting problems :laugh:
Well yeah it lets in too much air?
Warm up regulator can play up you my friend just need to start waspping stuff out for good parts!
Check voltages are present on the over run valve plug that caught me out but in my situation I forgot to push the pipe back on properly and caused massive co being out!
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I'll get out the multimeter tomorrow then and check what voltages I get from it. When I disconnected it and started the car it idled at 2000, with no hunting. It is definitely on properly as I made sure, made the same mistake myself! Again what I am finding weird is why it only does it when its warm, would the idle screw not be causing it to hunt all the time? I can start the car, no hunting problem. Five-fifteen minutes down the road, hunting. Rev the car a couple of times - hunting goes away. Then it sometimes will idle at 1500rpm. Disconnect ISV, problem goes away - idles fine. Turn car off and on again sometimes it will hunt, sometimes it won't.
Thought it could be a sticking plunger in the metering head, took intake boot off and lifted the VAF a few times and it was moving freely. Gave it a good clean while I was there.
Do you think the thermotime switch could be causing any issues?
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No it controls the fan and the one behind the block is a over run temp sensor for the fan hence sometimes when you turn the engine off and its hot the fan still runs on so highly unlikly to affect your symptoms.
Only thing left is WUR if its stuck open when its warm it will make it rich and lumpy?
By the time you fix her you will know everything about the the whole KR ballache :grin:
As for the metering head the (VAF) flap as long it returns back to its position smoothly its should be alright.
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Thanks for your feedback once again! I'll replace the WUR and fifth injector and see how I get on. Hopefully this will sort the cold starting issue I've got as well. I'll replace them an then do the CO and idle speed again.
Is it normal after setting the idle speed with the red connector disconnected, to 1050 for it to then idle lower once reconnected?
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On second thought, if the wur or CSV was leaking it/causing idle issues then it would happen regardless of whether or not the isv electrical connector was disconnected. Although it could be causing my cold starting issues I don't believe it is causing my idle issues
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First things who knows what a WUR does if its faulty
Second once the engine is warm the fifth injectors spray pattern could be wide or intermitten or WUR is still providing too much fuel?
Third if the car run perfectly with it unpluged then its the ISV or controller which we have been going around in circles discussing.
Fourth you think the parts from the other golf is running fine which gives you a false positive to your current faulty golf.
Not much more help mate I can give I can only suggest like I did before bite the builet and buy a new ISV and controller!
Majority people on here change out the ISV and controller and it fixes the issues with hunting after all there is no ECU to complicate things?
If it was me, as I test parts out write down what symptoms you get hot vs cold then logically work it out eliminate! Sometimes YOU are you're your own worst enemy :wink:
devil has idle thumbs no pun intended :laugh:
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Read this his issues was a faulty WUR! :wink:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=180002.0 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=180002.0)
By the way those sensors are you sure they arent giving off the wrong resistance they might make the temp read but are they looking old?