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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: molegti on 27 March 2012, 15:09

Title: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: molegti on 27 March 2012, 15:09
Really just out of interest why did the 16v retain KJet whilst later 8v's recieved digifant? Is it impossible to run the KR engine on digi?
I appreciate this is not really likely to be a worth while conversion anyway given the other options available, but it would be nice to know.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: X4MGS on 27 March 2012, 15:31
Aren't MK3 16V digifant's??

I assume they went digi cos it is more reliable and I dare say cheaper to fit in production!
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: SoundillusioN on 27 March 2012, 15:52
Aren't MK3 16V digifant's??

I assume they went digi cos it is more reliable and I dare say cheaper to fit in production!

That's not relevant to the question though is it?...

Yes MK3's had digi 16 valve motors, but the question is why did VW never bother fitting digi 16s to a mk2 when they did to the 8v?
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 27 March 2012, 16:09
I think it came down to cost + "if it ain't broke why fix it".  16v was fast enough.  The 8v outsold the 16v by 4-1 iirc.

Plus they were shortly about to launch the Mk3. 



Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: SoundillusioN on 27 March 2012, 16:25
I think it came down to cost + "if it ain't broke why fix it".  16v was fast enough.  The 8v outsold the 16v by 4-1 iirc.

Plus they were shortly about to launch the Mk3. 


Lazy bastids really then...  :grin:  They could have made a really nice roll out digi valver to mark the end of the MK2.  Instead they waste the improvements for a mk3.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 27 March 2012, 16:34
Yeah.. I don't think it's beyond plausibility that VW actually knew that their shiny new flagship Mk3 GTI would be slower than their outgoing model. So they kept  :lipsrsealed:

They'd would have never sold any Mk3's if they made any improvements to the MK2 16v to make it in any way faster / better that it currently was.


 :grin:



Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: Diamond Hell on 27 March 2012, 16:40
It's the rigmarole of getting it all type approved for the UK market. I think you'll find there was a KE-Jet 16V motor fitted in the areas of the world that went unleaded and catalyst before the UK.  It was lower output and had KE-Jet (which is enough reason never to love any engine).

Bear in mind there are multiple vesions of Digifant, so Digi 1 on the 8V and on the G60 (these are all IIRC, which it's possible I don't), Digi 2 on the catalysed 8V and then Digi 3 (and 3.2 as well, I think) in the Golf3 16V.

I assume they went digi cos it is more reliable and I dare say cheaper to fit in production!

You can say it, but the key benefit is that it's also far more reliable and delivers better power than the plate and bowl BS in a K-jet motor.
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 27 March 2012, 16:54
 :grin:

I can see this thread going on a bit... :rolleyes:


It started out harmless enough.

(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i400/InterpretorAmeth/mogwai.jpg)


But it may morph into..

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/forublue1992/gremlins.jpg)




So as a preemptive strike!


(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/the_flying_elvi/16v-vs-8v1.jpg)


 :grin:
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: X4MGS on 27 March 2012, 17:13
:grin:

I can see this thread going on a bit... :rolleyes:


It started out harmless enough.

(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i400/InterpretorAmeth/mogwai.jpg)


But it may morph into..

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/forublue1992/gremlins.jpg)




So as a preemptive strike!


(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/the_flying_elvi/16v-vs-8v1.jpg)


 :grin:


Trust you to throw that spanner in the engine!!  :wink:
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: X4MGS on 27 March 2012, 17:18
I also always wondered why we never got the 2Ltr bottom end which was stock on the US models...

But I guess VW thought that the MK3 would pick up from the MK2 with sales so why bother upgrading it when they had spent millions on a new car...

At the time of the MK3 I bet that was most peoples thoughts...

It's only with the test of time and hindsight that makes a MK2 such a good car... You never know we could all be dick waving about the MK3 if it was better built and wasn't such a rot box.... (and fecking UGLY)!!
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: Diamond Hell on 27 March 2012, 17:54
Because of the additional homologation required for the US market and their predisposition for cheap-assed motors VW gently continued development of the Golf2 and sales into the US into the 90s.  From memory they moved Golf2 production to Brazil and that's when things like the 2.0 bottom end, crossflow motor head on the 8V and bonded windscreen were added to the Golf2 US version.

Let's face it, if you have a bunch of panel presses and manufacturing kit that's not quite worn out, you might as well keep using them as long as possible.

Just look how long they kept churning out the Beetle!
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 27 March 2012, 18:08

Just look how long they kept churning out the Beetle!

Brazil.  Isn't that where all the Nazi's fled to after the war.  :grin:

Of course that's has absolutely nothing to do with the extremely long production life of Hitler's peoples car.

 :lipsrsealed:

Perhaps we should ask Simon Wiesenthal.

 :wink:



Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: SoundillusioN on 27 March 2012, 20:55
This has reminded me of the CITI Golf.  I thought the MK1 tools would never wear out.  Over 30 fooking years of production!  :grin:
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 27 March 2012, 21:12
You all realise that they dont actually use the same tools and presses for ever. 

They do get replaced/repaired.   :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: SoundillusioN on 27 March 2012, 21:16
You all realise that they dont actually use the same tools and presses for ever. 

They do get replaced/repaired.   :rolleyes:



No they don't, they last forever, just like my car will!  :grin:
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: molegti on 27 March 2012, 22:23
So the consensus is that they weren't selling enough 16v to make it worth mapping / modifying digi for it? (Economics only I do appreciate the 16v is faster and doesn't produce less torque  :grin:).
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: VW BUSH on 27 March 2012, 22:48
You all realise that they dont actually use the same tools and presses for ever. 

They do get replaced/repaired.   :rolleyes:



Brake presses come and go but the press tools used to stamp panels will go on for many years with minimum repair.
I've worked with stamping tools which were over 30 years old and still going strong.

Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: SoundillusioN on 28 March 2012, 09:42
You all realise that they dont actually use the same tools and presses for ever. 

They do get replaced/repaired.   :rolleyes:



Brake presses come and go but the press tools used to stamp panels will go on for many years with minimum repair.
I've worked with stamping tools which were over 30 years old and still going strong.



 :cool:

In that case then, I want them!....  There's still demand for genuine parts!
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: danny_p on 28 March 2012, 23:30
the K jet system involves a lot of fine tolerance mecanical parts  and had to be fooking expensive to produce where digi 2 is about as simpel as electronic fuel injection gets, in mass production electronics are cheep compared to macheneing.  so fitting digifant to the 8v gti was probaly more about moneysaveing.

as for keeping the 16v on k jet i can understand as, ( i can belive i'm saying this ) but  in as new condition ( good heath and callibrated ) K jet works better than digifant 2  imo it would have ruined the 16v


i hate k jet and i hate digi 2 as they are  both a bit pants  so this is an unbiased opinion in my opinion -  but there is another whole level of dislike for that horrible abotrion of a nasty thing thats called KE-jetronic 
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: Diamond Hell on 29 March 2012, 14:13
I can't believe you're saying that.  :grin:

At some point I'll figure out what the difference is between Digi I and Digi II, you may have talked about it at some point, but I forget.
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: SoundillusioN on 29 March 2012, 14:37
I can't believe you're saying that.  :grin:

At some point I'll figure out what the difference is between Digi I and Digi II, you may have talked about it at some point, but I forget.

Isn't Digi 1 designed to be able to manage boost but can not be chipped, and Digi 2 not for boost but can be chipped, or am I talking cr@p?

EDIT:  Oh and I love my K-jet, but for all the wrong reasons.  Mine's modified, scarily I couldn't tell you how.  If it breaks I'm fooked.
Title: Re: Curiosity Kjet / digifant question
Post by: danny_p on 30 March 2012, 00:08
digi 2 is the retarded sibling of digi 1

digi 1 if mapable   fuel and spark     digi 2 is only fuel mapable, bith share the same cpu  allong with the digi 3.2 box of the abf     board around it,  and code varies a lot tho.   digi 1 is a much more capable box than digi 2