GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: stow1985 on 25 March 2012, 10:06
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Hi all
What would say is better for a daily car? Poly-bush or Genuine part? is it worth replacing the bushes with a higher spec model?
If I remember rightly DH found that a Audi TT Wish bone bush fitted his Mk2 Syncro
I don't just mean in the VAG world but generally in the automotive industry...
I suppose one of the questions your going to ask is what car is it for?
Two cars in question:
1 > Mk3 golf GTI 8v
2 > Fiesta Zetec-S
Any comment and suggestions welcome :smiley:
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both slow as fvck so standard oem parts will be fine
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The main benefit of polybushes is that they last considerably longer than OEM bushes, however they're used. With some manufacturers, you can specify the Shore hardness of the bushes to suit the application. Softer bushes would be suited better for a daily driver.
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The main benefit of polybushes is that they last considerably longer than OEM bushes, however they're used.
How'd you figure that one then? Did you read a polybush advert? :grin:
If you can find uprated OEM (like the TT bushes that fit the G2 lower control arms) then I'd do that. In my experience OEM bushes last a lot longer than polybush replacements.
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I meant that quite broadly in that polyurethane isn't subject to a lot of the disadvantages of rubber bushes, such as deteriorating over time (even when not used) and changing hardness over time. I can't say I've ever heard of someone having to replace a polybush, but then again they're usually fitted as replacements for the old and clearly shagged original parts :laugh:
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Well I've worn out polybushes much quicker than VW OEM bushes - good quality ones, too.
The fact that the original bushes have taken 10-20 years to wear out might indicate that they're not rubbish, but people don't want to see it that way.
Polybushes really do deteriorate over time and you'd be some sort of a moron to think they didn't.
A part that never wears? I'll have ten, please!
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Haha ok, I see where you're coming from. I'll just throw it out there that the reason replacement bushes are made of polyurethane is for their mechanical and chemical properties, and not just for the hell of it :tongue:
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So you don't think there's any attraction in the fact that you don't need a press to fit them? :huh:
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Haha ok, I see where you're coming from. I'll just throw it out there that the reason replacement bushes are made of polyurethane is for their mechanical and chemical properties, and not just for the hell of it :tongue:
:smiley:
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Thanks for the reply's guys...well most of them
both slow as fvck so standard oem parts will be fine
:rolleyes:
I haven't had to replace any bushes on the golf as yet and for all I know they could still be the original as the golf on has two previous old lady owners...
I can't but think the old poly bush game is a bit of a gimmick like the good old cone filter...yes I know it gives you a harder ride and track ready cars tend to use them, but track cars get parts replaced more often than a daily...
put it this way, if you were going to go and buy and brand new Golf R (or whatever) would you then go and have the bushes upgraded to poly?
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Not if it was to be a daily, no.
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Not if it was to be a daily, no.
Thank you! :smiley:
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Poly bushes will increase the wear on things like drop links etc, dont skimp do the whole set of suspension rubbers if you are going to do it.
You might find tyre wear increases with polybushed suspension and top mounts if you dont uprate them.
The Mk3 benefits from uprated damping and springs over cheap coillies and polybushes :smiley:
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The best thing for a mk3 is uprated anti roll bars. :grin:
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The best thing for a mk3 is uprated anti roll bars. :grin:
Very true :laugh:
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Thanks guys,
it wasn't for the purpose of 'improving' the ride just a matter of it needs replacing so what's best to replace it with...
is there any difference between Golf GTI 8V, GTI 16V and VR6? and are they interchangeable?
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what i've found is.
there are poly bushes and poly bushes. and most of the advertiseing is bollox.
i like polybushes cos theere easy :smiley:. duff them in job one no takeing subframes off and trying to get them in the press. what i no likey is that there performance claims arent exactly true dought meany people have gone from new std bushes to new polybushes once you have you'll realise they arn't all that.
for balls out performance use spherical bearings. for performance and a littel comfort use rubber based bushes ( not nessaserly std ) you can get some with thicker steel inserts and less rubber, these are awsome.
for the fast road / track car or fast road daily its a minefield. take your best guess and change it if it's not right
for the old shed of a daily driver you just want to bang through a mot and have to fix on your driveway, polybushes every time
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good for exhaust rubbers?
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good for exhaust rubbers?
No, the ones I had lasted 1 outing before snapping. The second set melted.
Stuck with rubber ones after that.
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Turning into a very interesting subject!!
The fact that the car is a 'daily' and when I say that I mean all day every day 'daily' and I'm not going to do it myself so I think I will go with what VW intended...
for balls out performance use spherical bearings. for performance and a littel comfort use rubber based bushes ( not nessaserly std ) you can get some with thicker steel inserts and less rubber, these are awsome.
You lost me on this bit tho :grin:...what's spherical bearing? :huh:
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spherical bearings.
you use them when you do away with bushes completly, they mean your suspention gemetry will stay bang on even under silly loads, as there is no rubber or polyurethane to distort.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4eGXsShakgRNgTyD5Ywx22Dj225E34_UnFDuVQmNMpe4halnRTYcOUKyh)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/TeemuM/Golf-projekti/vortex/laakerit1_640.jpg)
they are for balls out motorsport on smooth surfaces. youd feel it if you ran over singel stray bit of gravel
as the name says they are literly bearing but they allow angular movement
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They look wicked!
Bet that'd smash your spine on a daily :cry:
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spherical bearings.
you use them when you do away with bushes completly, they mean your suspention gemetry will stay bang on even under silly loads, as there is no rubber or polyurethane to distort.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4eGXsShakgRNgTyD5Ywx22Dj225E34_UnFDuVQmNMpe4halnRTYcOUKyh)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/TeemuM/Golf-projekti/vortex/laakerit1_640.jpg)
they are for balls out motorsport on smooth surfaces. youd feel it if you ran over singel stray bit of gravel
as the name says they are literly bearing but they allow angular movement
You need to clear your workshop up :grin:
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not my workshop i nicked the photos nicked of vwvortex :smiley: but you are right i do need to tidy the ws up again :sad:
my workshop camera dint like takeing photos of welding still not bought another.
They look wicked!
Bet that'd smash your spine on a daily :cry:
they would, they don't last that long ether, the siffer you make things the higher the shock loads become. with sperical bearings metal fatuigue becomes a real problem things have a nasty habbit of cracking and snaping so regular inspections are needed the reason i'm not going down that route as i know id take the car out on the road for a play every now and again and i dought id check the suspention arms often enough
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The main benefit of polybushes is that they last considerably longer than OEM bushes, however they're used.
How'd you figure that one then? Did you read a polybush advert? :grin:
If you can find uprated OEM (like the TT bushes that fit the G2 lower control arms) then I'd do that. In my experience OEM bushes last a lot longer than polybush replacements.
oem lasting longer than polybush? obviously this is s a wind up.
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oem lasting longer than polybush? obviously this is s a wind up.
(http://www.hjo3.net/orly/gal1/orly_lemmony.jpg)
On what basis is it a wind up?
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sorry, I thought you were kidding about oems outlasting polys. I had lower arms and rear axel polys on my mk3 for years.
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So did I N loved them. So much more positive than the rubber but then I had good setup and not cheap crashy coilies. They provided a fair bit more feedback but DH is right about the amount of wear on other components as a result. Still worth it IMO tho.
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DH is right about the amount of wear on other components as a result. Still worth it IMO tho.
You're mis-reading my point - polybushes don't last as long as the OEM equivilent. The load transfer problems they bring are another (horrible) subject all together.
If you want any more evidence of this, have a look on Nige Pinder's build thread on Northloop. He was junking polybushes on an annual basis.
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DH is right about the amount of wear on other components as a result. Still worth it IMO tho.
You're mis-reading my point - polybushes don't last as long as the OEM equivilent. The load transfer problems they bring are another (horrible) subject all together.
If you want any more evidence of this, have a look on Nige Pinder's build thread on Northloop. He was junking polybushes on an annual basis.
I ran them for 4 years and 40000 miles with no issues on a car dropped 40mm with koni adjustables wound pretty hard. I was never shy in the corners either :evil:
Suppose some of it depends on the qualityofthe bush inthe first place
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I prefer stock rubber ones they are comfortablle and perfect for daily driving!
Its like sticking EBC red pads on my golf just to do 10 miles of traffic they arent going to get warm enough to even be effective! Same with the poly's if you track then fine, but if you have miss match rubber and poly its going to ride like a donkey with herpies. One thing that sticks to mind is the dam squeaking when its not greased up properly (poly's) or the strain on more expensive parts off the susupension, hence you change the lot or not at all!
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I prefer stock rubber ones they are comfortablle and perfect for daily driving!
Its like sticking EBC red pads on my golf just to do 10 miles of traffic they arent going to get warm enough to even be effective! Same with the poly's if you track then fine, but if you have miss match rubber and poly its going to ride like a donkey with herpies. One thing that sticks to mind is the dam squeaking when its not greased up properly (poly's) or the strain on more expensive parts off the susupension, hence you change the lot or not at all!
That makes sense!
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I have miss matched rubber and poly wishbone bushes in my mk4 and it rides a lot better than with the standard rubber bushes.
r32/tt/s3 solid rubber rear wishbone bushes and superpro poly front wishbone bushes.
Working well on my car anyway and it's a daily driver, little bit stiffer but not harsh at all
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I have miss matched rubber and poly wishbone bushes in my mk4 and it rides a lot better than with the standard rubber bushes.
r32/tt/s3 solid rubber rear wishbone bushes and superpro poly front wishbone bushes.
Working well on my car anyway and it's a daily driver, little bit stiffer but not harsh at all
The fact you have mentioned the above states that there are uneven forces on the rubber bushes and causing more strain on those parts plus its a MK4 so any stiffer feel is better than OEM :tongue:
I suggest you change the lot MK4's weigh too much IMO! I used to own one :lipsrsealed:
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Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions...so here is my plan :smug:...
Shocks will be changed for Bilstein B6 Sports Dampers so I can keep standard height,
Wishbone Bushes , Top mounts, ARB, Track Rod Ends, will be genuine part (is there a difference from the GTI to the VR6?)
what about rear ARB? Strut Braces? Stitch Weld Wishbones?
Thanks again :smiley:
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Forgot to mention that mine is a GTTDI and all the bushes have been changed but it did eat wheel bearings for a while.
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Definitely a wise choice on the Bilsteins. Might be worth considering new springs though, as yours will be quite tired. See what's out there Eibach-wise.
The control arms on the Golf3 are a lot stiffer than the Golf2. If it's a daily I wouldn't, as they won't deform if you wallop a kerb, instead the shock will be dumped into your subframe et al and do nasty things, probably.
The rear bush on the control arm *might* be the same diameter as the TT genuine bush, but I would urge you to check that before buying as they're a lot more cash. It's likely to be a good upgrade if it does fit.
A rear ARB should help dial out some understeer, but I'd drive the tits off it before deciding to go down that route.
As for the Genuine parts, unless you can get a really good deal on them, see what price top quality bits from GSF or ECP are - for what you're doing they're likely as not to be same manufacturer with their logo on instead of the VW logo.
Lastly go to a good alignment place and get factory settings on the front, but dial in either -0.5 or -1 camber on the front wheels. This may give you enough improved turn in and front grip to negate the need for a rear ARB.
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Thanks DH,
Springs yes I thought about changing them, mine are coming on for 17years old now...Il have to find out for sure but i don't think the B6 can be lowered, will Eibach do a standard hight spring?
Don't suppose you have the diameter of the TT bush to hand have you?
To be fair my car has either ladders on it, or family in it, very rarely I get to drive the tits off it...
I can get trade on VW/TPS parts, I didn't realise GSF or ECP did a range of quality parts, I've had pattern parts on this and previous cars and don't seem to last five minutes
I was going to ask about alignment but you beat me to it...thanks *bookmarked* now
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Eibach Pro-kit is only 25-30mm lower than standard and very good. If you want lower they do a Sportline kit which is 40mm lower and marginally stiffer ( I run these)
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Eibach Pro-kit is only 25-30mm lower than standard and very good. If you want lower they do a Sportline kit which is 40mm lower and marginally stiffer ( I run these)
If I went to 40mm that would mean getting the more expensive damper.....oh wait there's only £4 difference :grin:
I should be able to get away with a 40mm drop...will have to think about that a bit more, depends on the price difference on the springs too...I now my car looks like a 4x4 at the mo, but love the durability of it, over speed bumps, up and down curbs, farm tracks...my splitter already bottoms out on some customers drives :rolleyes: