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General => General discussion => Topic started by: thatwillis on 07 March 2012, 19:02
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Hiya.
I'm after a 50mm prime as everyone on here says how important they are. Down side is due to my camera body (D3000) I need to have the silent wave motor inside. So thats the AF-S range. I'm looking at about 330quid for a 50mm 1.4 and about 180 for a 50mm 1.8. I do what to use it for low light handheld shots in nightclubs etc. Would the 1.8 be good enough? Just seems like alot more money for that extra little bit of light.
Going for shots like this.
(http://www.andrewattah.com/portfoliotest/indexhibitv070e/files/gimgs/53_d5g7026.jpg)
Thanks
Willis
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Other than the 1.4 being better glass there's not a huge difference, id be more worried about noise due to high iso on your camera
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You need to remember that while shooting at f1.8 might get you a shot in low light you'll have to consider that a) in low light and wider apertures auto-focus will struggle to focus, which means that with b) your depth of field being so shallow, only a small bit of the shot will be in focus.
The other consideration is that at 50mm, you won't get a very wide view, (remember that 50mm on a crop sensor is around 70mm film equivalent) and in tight crowd situations like in a club that might not give you enough space for a shot.
I took a few shots at a work party last week, and although I took my 50mm f1.7 with me, I used my kit 17-70mm lens more as it gave me more options to line up shots. I used a proper flash to fill out the shot and found that fine.
For example:
Kit lens, no flash. f5.6 40mm zoom on lens
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7189/6951031493_603e5f09b4.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47903765@N00/6951031493/)
hands in the air... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47903765@N00/6951031493/) by AlistairBeavis (http://www.flickr.com/people/47903765@N00/), on Flickr
No flash, 26mm zoom f5.6
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/6804916890_3fa73f1102.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47903765@N00/6804916890/)
Horns... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47903765@N00/6804916890/) by AlistairBeavis (http://www.flickr.com/people/47903765@N00/), on Flickr
Flash-auto fill, f5.6, 26mm zoom:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7042/6951029019_f792be8826.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47903765@N00/6951029019/)
Salsa - Roberto Pla (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47903765@N00/6951029019/) by AlistairBeavis (http://www.flickr.com/people/47903765@N00/), on Flickr
So none of those were taken at 50mm (or anywhere close to f1.8), they were wider shots, and a wider shot can always be tightened with a crop.
It might be worth thinking about something different lens-wise.
If you're going to spend £300, why not this Tamron 17-50mm constant f2.8 ?
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-tamron-17-50mm-f2-8-xr-di-ii-vc-lens-with-motor-nikon-fit/p1033482 (http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-tamron-17-50mm-f2-8-xr-di-ii-vc-lens-with-motor-nikon-fit/p1033482)
(I was going to buy one of these myself, but I found a Sigma 28-70mm EX f2.8 bargain on ebay, although I may swap it if 28mm isn't wide enough.)
I think a good option would be to hire a lens for an event and see how you find it.
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I think a good option would be to hire a lens for an event and see how you find it.
As above.
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I'm probably investing in a Tamrom 17-50 very soon, that's probably more up your street :)
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Whenever the next event is, try one out:
http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/ (http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/)
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Whenever the next event is, try one out:
http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/ (http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/)
Thanks for all your help :smiley: I was looking at a 50mm in jessops and asked the girl in there if she knew anywhere I could hire a lense she surgested buying the lense then returning it within 30 days! :laugh:
32quid for a Sigma 50mm isnt bad. http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/sigman-50mm-f14-ex-dg-hsm-152-p.asp (http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/sigman-50mm-f14-ex-dg-hsm-152-p.asp)
Yeah 50mm did see quite tight when i had a little think about it. Looking at a 17-50mm 2.8 it doesn't have a much lower fstop than my current lense -18-55 3.5... I guess i should have a propper go at low light shooting with my current lense and see where i get too.
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Whenever the next event is, try one out:
http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/ (http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/)
Thanks for all your help :smiley: I was looking at a 50mm in jessops and asked the girl in there if she knew anywhere I could hire a lense she surgested buying the lense then returning it within 30 days! :laugh:
32quid for a Sigma 50mm isnt bad. http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/sigman-50mm-f14-ex-dg-hsm-152-p.asp (http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/sigman-50mm-f14-ex-dg-hsm-152-p.asp)
Yeah 50mm did see quite tight when i had a little think about it. Looking at a 17-50mm 2.8 it doesn't have a much lower fstop than my current lense -18-55 3.5... I guess i should have a propper go at low light shooting with my current lense and see where i get too.
There are plenty of places that hire Nikon lenses, you might find a cheaper place.
f2.8 is actually quite a bit better than f3.5 and as I said, if you go down to f1.8 you'll find the depth of field so shallow
that you'll have lots of your crowd out of focus.
The other thing will be that the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 will be better quality glass than your kit lens, so will give you better results.
Besides your kit lens will only do f3.5 at it's widest, but if you zoom to 50mm, you'll be limited to f5.6 or something, whereas with the Tamron 17-50 f2.8, it will still be f2.8 even at 50mm.
Another lens option:
Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4.5 - it's meant to be really good clarity wise
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-sigma-17-70mm-f2-8-4-dc-macro-os-hsm-lens-nikon-fit/p1518706 (http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-sigma-17-70mm-f2-8-4-dc-macro-os-hsm-lens-nikon-fit/p1518706)
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that lense hire is crazy money! 32 quid plus 21 quid for delivery!
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There's also Calumet, and they have a try before you buy discount:
"Take a Test Drive
With our "Try Before You Buy" programme, we will refund up to a maximum of 50% of a week's hire charge if you decide to buy the product from us within 14 days. There's no better way to try something new, make an informed decision or choose which accessory to buy."
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/services/rental.cfm (http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/services/rental.cfm)
Or LensPimp
http://www.lenspimp.com/ (http://www.lenspimp.com/)
Or Hireacamera:
http://www.hireacamera.com/lens_hire/index.asp (http://www.hireacamera.com/lens_hire/index.asp)
They have the Sigma 50mm f1.4 for £17 for a weekend (plus courier charges) or the Nikon 50mm f1.4 for the same price.
Or make friends with someone with nice gear. :grin:
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Lenses for hire is just down the road from where i'm working tomorrow which is really tempting. But I think i'm going to have a propper go with what i've got and see how it effects me. I can then work out what lense i should be trying. Really helpful pointers to show that a 50mm 1.4 might not be the right sort of lense.
Taking Photos for a Hardcore party saturday night! http://www.facebook.com/events/156801194417547/ (http://www.facebook.com/events/156801194417547/) So should be some colourful characters for sure! :grin: I'll get some of them posted up here when i get round to having a fiddle with them :smiley:
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With regards to the Tamron 17-50 it seems like a cracking lens if you get one that is good, they dont seem reliable and many people have had to send two back to get a good copy.
Maybe I'll get a 17-40.
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With regards to the Tamron 17-50 it seems like a cracking lens if you get one that is good, they dont seem reliable and many people have had to send two back to get a good copy.
Maybe I'll get a 17-40.
I've not heard problems with reliability as such, more that they have the problem (that you can get with any lens) that the pairing of lens and camera is not bang on.
Think about it: every lens and camera is manufactured to be exactly as specified, the distance between the lens mount and the sensor for example must be a precise amount, but obviously it can happen that it's a fraction of a millimetre out, but within the "acceptable tolerances" so it passes quality control and goes to a customer/user.
The same thing happens with lenses, they are manufactured within "acceptable tolerances" but they might be a fraction of a millimetre out.
So when you come to pair a lens with a camera body, you can find that they don't match exactly and give the sharpest pictures. But if you got hold of another copy of the same lens it might be much better because the mix of the tolerances of camera and lens works well.
Read here for a better explanation: http://www.canonrumors.com/tech-articles/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/tech-articles/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths/)
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People have reported AF issues and the lense jamming up...I was aware of the tolerances that can be adjusted by micro adjustment (if my camera had it)
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I've got the f/1.4 it's a great lens and awesome for low light conditions, the difference is 2/3 of a stop so you could just step the ISO up and get the f/1.8 although on a D3000 the noise is probably going to become an issue.
although the f/1.8 is meant to focus slightly quicker than the f/1.4
Personally I'd say that 50mm on an APS-c is going to be too long for club work and you'd be better off with a wide angle / ultra wide angle. If you're shooting in a club, you're going to get asked by people to take their photo @ 50mm all you're going to get is a headshot, if you've got a group of people you're not going to get them all in.
As said something like the in the 17-50 range would be ideal, but these are expensive and the one to have is the nikon 17-55 f/2.8 however this comes in at just over a grand, the tamron and sigma are good alternatives but don't have the same build / optical quality.
The nikon lens also has a very very good re-sale value as it keeps it's price.
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Well so glad i posted up here first. Thanks for all your help! Found out that a 50mm lense is pretty much no good to me for this type of shooting! I spend almost the whole night set at 18mm on my 18-55. And the place was far from full. What i was having issues with was getting the auto focus to work propperly where there wasn't quite enough light. Lead a few embarrasing instances of it just refusing to take a photo. Over all a really fun cheap/night! Here are a Few of my favorites.
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431276_10151374490255046_636185045_23117515_305169188_n.jpg)
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417372_10151374491590046_636185045_23117527_1261318742_n.jpg)
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/431010_10151374490450046_636185045_23117516_141869755_n.jpg)
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Nice work.
If you're going to be doing this sort of work, it's worth getting something better than a kit lens and either the Sigma or the Tamron is a good starting point.
Go with what you can afford, keep checking ebay for bargains.
If this sort of work starts paying, then upgrade your lenses as you get the money in.
Have you got a flash ?
If not, then it might be worth investing in something just to get you out of those awkward moments when the camera with kit lens can't find focus with a group of people wanting to have their photo taken.
For example, here's another shot from the same work party as before, perfect timing and the flash assisted the camera focusing, and again taken with the kit lens. The flash was bounced off the low ceiling with a Stofen diffuser.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/64637_10151348684610571_634670570_23179635_1678666250_n.jpg)
My flash is a Sigma EF530 DG ST, which cost me £40 from ebay.
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:smiley: Thanks.
So even tho statistically the lenses look similar I'll end up with a better photo due to the higher quailty of the lens?
Yeah I'm Use a Nissin Di622 mkII So that sensor on that does help but still struggles. I didn't have the AF assist on (little light on the camera) Perhaps should have done! I don't have a Stofen diffuser as i didnt have time to get one I used baking sheet as ive seen a few people surgest on forums. I ended Burning through the paper with my flash :shocked: Downside of Club shots in the lack of nice white ceilings to bounce flashes off!
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af assist light would have solved the focus issue! better lens than the 18-55 kit def needed, also i think your white balance is off as the people are very orange(are you shooting raw!?!?)
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Turning on AF assist will definately help.
Does your Nissin flash have AF assist too? If it does it'll be better than the little one on the camera.
Stofen for your Nissin : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24)
Yup, even a £2-300 lens will be better than the kit lens. Kit lenses (on this level of camera) are just a starting point, often they use cheap glass or even plastic for the actual elements, so going up one level in the quality of the glass will be a big improvement.
Also if you get a lens with a constant f2.8 aperture, you won't be forced to use higher f-stops when you zoom in, and in low-light shooting this means you won't have to pump up the ISO to compensate (which brings in noise).
If I get time, I might try a test shoot for comparison of my kit lens vs 50mm prime vs Sigma 28-70mm f2.8
On the subject of bounce flash, even if you don't have a nice ceiling, you can still use bounce flash, either just pointed up, or with a bounce reflector
like this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Opteka-FB-50-Universal-Bouncer-External/dp/B003MRMN1C/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1331514792&sr=1-3) or this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kiora-Universal-Diffuser-Reflector-Flashguns/dp/B0054Q0YJM/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1331514792&sr=1-8).
Below is another (sorry) example of a shot taken with kit lens and flash pointing up, no bounce reflector, in a large dark marquee, but it still lights up the crowd. (Not a perfect shot, but you get the idea)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/425944_10151348685265571_634670570_23179640_912290999_n.jpg)
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af assist light would have solved the focus issue! better lens than the 18-55 kit def needed, also i think your white balance is off as the people are very orange(are you shooting raw!?!?)
I beleve its my over active use of Vibrance in lightroom 3 :grin: Really wanted to bring the colours out. I'll be more careful next time.
Turning on AF assist will definately help.
Does your Nissin flash have AF assist too? If it does it'll be better than the little one on the camera.
Stofen for your Nissin : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24)
Yeah it does I think (dull red glow?) That what i thought but i will have a go with the camera AF assist next time.
When i click on the link it doesn't say anything about which flash its for... Which is a bit odd.. Just want to make sure im ordering the correct one.
I see what you mean i was under the impression that you needed something to bounce the flash off! I'll have a go at that next time too.
Thanks for all the examples :smiley:
I'm looking at a Sigma Aspherical 18-35 Zoom which i've found going rather cheap. But i don't know if the Auto Focus would work with my camera or find much information on it. Does anyone know a website that would show what lenses would work on a Nikon D3000? Had one a while ago but can't find it now :angry: Found it :smiley:
http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=312&topic_id=37&mesg_id=37&page= (http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=312&topic_id=37&mesg_id=37&page=)
Really excited to go out again and have another go working on what i've learn't!
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Turning on AF assist will definately help.
Does your Nissin flash have AF assist too? If it does it'll be better than the little one on the camera.
Stofen for your Nissin : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24)
Yeah it does I think (dull red glow?) That what i thought but i will have a go with the camera AF assist next time.
When i click on the link it doesn't say anything about which flash its for... Which is a bit odd.. Just want to make sure im ordering the correct one.
If you look on the Stofen website (http://www.stofen.com/index.asp) you can select which flash you have and buy the right model, because as you found, Amazon doesn't tell you what it fits.
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Turning on AF assist will definately help.
Does your Nissin flash have AF assist too? If it does it'll be better than the little one on the camera.
Stofen for your Nissin : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24)
Yeah it does I think (dull red glow?) That what i thought but i will have a go with the camera AF assist next time.
When i click on the link it doesn't say anything about which flash its for... Which is a bit odd.. Just want to make sure im ordering the correct one.
If you look on the Stofen website (http://www.stofen.com/index.asp) you can select which flash you have and buy the right model, because as you found, Amazon doesn't tell you what it fits.
save yourself some money, get a piece of paper or thin card and an elastic band.
If you want something more advanced, two pieces of craft foam, one white one black, stick together with pva glue and use a bit of velcro to attach to the flash head.
http://www.themoment2cherish.com/DIY-Bounce-Card/
or google DIY bounce card
Also flash AF is generally superior to the built in camera AF assit, couple of reasons, better spread of light, lens and lens hoods don't obstruct the bulb, it's more discrete.
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Turning on AF assist will definately help.
Does your Nissin flash have AF assist too? If it does it'll be better than the little one on the camera.
Stofen for your Nissin : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24)
Yeah it does I think (dull red glow?) That what i thought but i will have a go with the camera AF assist next time.
When i click on the link it doesn't say anything about which flash its for... Which is a bit odd.. Just want to make sure im ordering the correct one.
If you look on the Stofen website (http://www.stofen.com/index.asp) you can select which flash you have and buy the right model, because as you found, Amazon doesn't tell you what it fits.
Much difference in the end photo between at Stofen diffusor and say a maximfoto diffusor like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maximfoto-Diffuser-compatible-Nissin-PZ400-C-N/dp/B002U7ABWS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331734615&sr=8-1
Turning on AF assist will definately help.
Does your Nissin flash have AF assist too? If it does it'll be better than the little one on the camera.
Stofen for your Nissin : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stofen-STO-FEN-C/dp/B00009R69T/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1331513910&sr=8-24)
Yeah it does I think (dull red glow?) That what i thought but i will have a go with the camera AF assist next time.
When i click on the link it doesn't say anything about which flash its for... Which is a bit odd.. Just want to make sure im ordering the correct one.
If you look on the Stofen website (http://www.stofen.com/index.asp) you can select which flash you have and buy the right model, because as you found, Amazon doesn't tell you what it fits.
save yourself some money, get a piece of paper or thin card and an elastic band.
If you want something more advanced, two pieces of craft foam, one white one black, stick together with pva glue and use a bit of velcro to attach to the flash head.
http://www.themoment2cherish.com/DIY-Bounce-Card/
or google DIY bounce card
Also flash AF is generally superior to the built in camera AF assit, couple of reasons, better spread of light, lens and lens hoods don't obstruct the bulb, it's more discrete.
The bounce card would work but doesnt look very professional. Think I'm gonna invest in a diffusor. Good idea tho :smiley:
Yeah the flash AF assist should work better but it just wasnt working. I think it may have been to do with the movment of the lights mucking it up.