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General => The garage => Topic started by: tshirt2k on 26 February 2012, 17:55
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Anyone mapped one of these Siemens ecus?
Did a log the other day in mine and noticed timing was being pulled. I'm thinking it could do with some extra fuel. Seems to run lean to me.
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What year and engine code is it? You sure it's not a Bosch ME7.x series?
We're also affiliated on the Polo forums mate - I expect the Lupo will be running the same setup as the 6N2 Polo which is 125bhp 1.6 16v (ARC or AVY).
If the car is stock and running lean, what makes you think it needs a remap? Sounds more like a Lambda problem to me mate. Or am I misunderstanding?
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Well its not stock as such. 4 branch manifold, straight through system with cat, CDA filter. So its breathing better.
It is an AVY engine code MY2001 Siemens simos 3.
I only assume its lean as the AFR's are around 13.2 at WOT at a peak torque and there is some knock. Timimg is being pulled 3 degrees. So something isn't quite right. Thats on tesco 99 too. From experince and seeing how other cars are fuelled i expected to see in the 12's at least.
No faults etc.... Lambda has been changed recently. Not that its been playing up, but from the logs i've done i notice the pulling of the timing and lambda values. Also the weather isnt warm so it not IAT causing it.
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OK so straight through system meaning it's been decatted? Where is the lambda now?
Also the AVY's I've seen are Bosch. Have you actually taken the ECU out to confirm it's Siemens?
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Just added it has a cat and editted last post.
No not removed ECU but comes up on VCDS scan with part number etc
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Do you know if it's possibly already been tuned mate? This would explain the timing and AFR's being out. I've never logged an AVY so not sure what AFR it should be running but 13's do seem a little lean..
I'll check with our engineer and see if he can shed some light.
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If you believe this then AFR's in the 13's isn't lean anyway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air%E2%80%93fuel_ratio
And also just checked with our engineer, he seems to think 13.2 is probably ok. There may be another reason for the knock.
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Do you know if it's possibly already been tuned mate? This would explain the timing and AFR's being out. I've never logged an AVY so not sure what AFR it should be running but 13's do seem a little lean..
I'll check with our engineer and see if he can shed some light.
My point Exactly. No never been tuned Was a standard car when i got it with 20k on the clock in 2004. I just updated the label files for the AVY so i could see what i was looking at when i did a 3rd gear run to the limiter.
Just reading on elsawin that both ARC and AVY use SIMOS 3 only difference being emissions standards.
AVY is EU4
ARC is D3
I may do another log for some other channels. I logged channels 003,020,031. But even requested lambda wants 0.91 lambda up to 6k hence my thinking that they run that lean as standard. :undecided:
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Ideal-stoichiometry.jpg)
I have alway tageted ~12.5 AFR on my car ( ABF Turbo)as shown here for maximum power. So 0.91λ/13.38AFR isn't ideal. Sp when i say lean i mean lean for best power, but OEM wouldn't necessarily do that, So improvements can be made here
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target lambda isn't going to be the same for n/a and turbo cars
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True but that depends on other factors ie if you need to add fuel as cooling for the cylinders. Still most people with NA tend to target mid 12s for best power and probably go richer from there to help reduce det or EGTs.
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NAs will be happy at 14.7:1 across the whole band.
For best torque and power it you would want the fuel around 13.2:1 - 12.7:1 depending on timing and exhaust flow, egt not a issue and det can be be kept under control with the advance maps.
I have never tuned a Siemens simos 3 so dont know the ecu mapping, but having timing pull of -3cf is fine, you need to remember the CF is actual pulled routine timing not actual pinking or det, you could have -12cf and still have no audiable det via the detcan. The ecu is only picking up voltage from the sensors, the ecu is trying to keep the voltage in check.
If your getting -3CF then you know your at least getting minimum best timing and making optimised power rather than running 0CF and not knowing if your getting thr best power.
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Egts were refered to for FI cars. Further reading on elsawin states that its only a problem if the timing is pulled between 8-12 deg. So it seems to be running ok. 13.4AFR target is a out of the range a bit for best torque IMO. Its probably tuned for best emissions
I think it could benefit from a bit more fuel and a timing tweak. Siemens info seems a bit scarce though.
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Egts were refered to for FI cars. Further reading on elsawin states that its only a problem if the timing is pulled between 8-12 deg. So it seems to be running ok. 13.4AFR target is a out of the range a bit for best torque IMO. Its probably tuned for best emissions
I think it could benefit from a bit more fuel and a timing tweak. Siemens info seems a bit scarce though.
EGTs and F1 cars I take it you have seen the youtube bench dyno videos? petrol head porn lol
I will see if i can find any documents on the Siemens ecu, but over the years there data has been limited. If I can get a damos or OLS project file then we can get it tweaked if you want.
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I have found an ORI file for the ecu. Just need winols to read it I think.
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I have found an ORI file for the ecu. Just need winols to read it I think.
http://www.evc.de/en/download/down_winols.asp
Play with the demo version. :smiley:
To make any sense you need an OLS map pack, Damso or A2l file to group the maps, add the axis, factors and offset. Open ORI file in ols and view 2d 16bit you will find maps, but what maps is the question.
I think you might like this forum, its more Bosch ME range but gives a good insight.. http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/
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Cheers. I'm registered on there. I think i found the map addresses somewhere too
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Cheers. I'm registered on there. I think i found the map addresses somewhere too
Have fun, let me know if you need help or a map buring to the eprom.
:smiley:
Nick
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Cheers. I'm registered on there. I think i found the map addresses somewhere too
Have fun, let me know if you need help or a map buring to the eprom.
:smiley:
Nick
Had a quick little play. :shocked: looks like a load of hex and some wavy graphs. Ill have to find some kind of manual or Maybe tuner pro can be sussed easier.
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Cheers. I'm registered on there. I think i found the map addresses somewhere too
Have fun, let me know if you need help or a map buring to the eprom.
:smiley:
Nick
Had a quick little play. :shocked: looks like a load of hex and some wavy graphs. Ill have to find some kind of manual or Maybe tuner pro can be sussed easier.
Thats about right, they mean nothting unless you got a damso A2l file to over lay the hex and wazy graphs, so when you click on them they become maps with offset and rpm scales ect and data which you will understand and relate to your logs.
I will keep my eyes open and see what I can find for you.
Nick