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General => The garage => Topic started by: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 13:33

Title: Remapped 150PD overboosting *with new logging figures*
Post by: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 13:33
Hey all,

Took her for a visit to Rtech today, (big thanks to the guys BTW :-) )...

Long short of it, I'm a little disappointed with the final figures, I have a decat and EGR delete and was hoping for 180+. I believe on the first run it made 143 ( so a little loss there) then after the custom stage 1 it made 167.

Now it was overboosting quite badly...This is apparently due to the fact that I don't have the vacuum reservoir plumbed in and no N18 & N239 valve as after I did the EGR delete I did the vacuum hose simplification. I will be refitting these as of next weekend and maybe replacing my N75 valve...

Should I get more power once these have been refitted?

Please check out the graph and let me know if I was being too optimistic in hoping for 180hp...

(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k573/scarr89/2012-02-11203655.jpg)

Cheers, Si
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: littco on 12 February 2012, 13:42
Is it going into limp mode once it over boosts?

If so it could be your vnt is sticking or you have a vacuum leak to the actuator, I guess also the valves you unplugged could the same issue. A pd150 should easily get you 180bhp+ my 130pd was just over 170bhp and that's a smaller turbo
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 13:47
Never gone into limp mode *touch wood*, never had sticky VNT *touching more wood*....Will have to see once I plug N18 &N239 back in  :sad:
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: Rhyso on 12 February 2012, 15:45
That 167bhp is at the wheels mind; you've made 185bhp at the fly

look at the figures in the brackets  :wink:
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 15:57
Quote from: Rhyso on 12 February 2012, 15:45
That 167bhp is at the wheels mind; you've made 185bhp at the fly

look at the figures in the brackets  :wink:

I was wondering that...Silly me eh  :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:. But still...with a decat and once fitted the removed valves should I see an increase?
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: Rhyso on 12 February 2012, 16:10
Quote from: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 15:57
Quote from: Rhyso on 12 February 2012, 15:45
That 167bhp is at the wheels mind; you've made 185bhp at the fly

look at the figures in the brackets  :wink:

I was wondering that...Silly me eh  :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:. But still...with a decat and once fitted the removed valves should I see an increase?

Unlikely i would have thought.  All the valves will do will help control the spiking and smooth it all out.

Did they check the movement of the actuator? Make sure its moving nice and freely  :smiley:

Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 16:31
I pretty much feel like a complete mug...what a fool I'v made of my self  :embarassed: :rolleyes:

Nothing about an actuator was mentioned...I'll check that this weekend. The car doesn't need to be on or anything to de press the actuator etc does it?
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: Rhyso on 12 February 2012, 16:42
Quote from: scarr89 on 12 February 2012, 16:31
I pretty much feel like a complete mug...what a fool I'v made of my self  :embarassed: :rolleyes:

Nothing about an actuator was mentioned...I'll check that this weekend. The car doesn't need to be on or anything to de press the actuator etc does it?

Its easier to be underneath the car to get at it to wiggle it and check the movement
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: RTechUK on 13 February 2012, 20:11
Nothing wrong anywhere with the car as such, just the mods are wrong what you have carried out and/or a faulty N75 valve.  The map was not pushed too ard due to 120k on the turbo and clutch.  Which is the window for failing parts... But saying that Steve-PD have 150k+ with a 30psi over boost and no issues.

Our worry was that the car came in stock over boosting to 30+psi for around 400rpm then under boosting, its common for stock 150PDs to see 30psi plus for year and go un-noticed without  any issues.    The remap is pushing the boost harder but not the peak boost, I would be happy with 27psi peak and holding 24psi which would give 190+bhp 300lbft with the correct fuel setup.

Post remap you was still seeing 30psi peak and 3psi undershoot at the top end which you can see on the graph as a dip. I was happy to do the car if you was going to sort the overboost out asap and drive in normal until you got the boost doing what its told to do by the ecu.  Logs on block 011 & 008 which give you a visual picture.

You need to fit all the valves and pipes ect back inplace and just blank the anti shudder valve and EGR.  Then get the car logged, once you got all the hardware correct then the power will substain at the top end and give you a higher bhp reading closer to 190+bhp.

The VNT was nice a free so dont worry about that, just sort vacume control system out and get her logged and checked out.

Keep us up dated.. :wink:


Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: scarr89 on 13 February 2012, 20:48
Brill thanks alot Nick.

I intend on having my clutch replaced next month as I am aware its tad old  :wink:

Once I have this replaced and have sorted the overboost if I swung by again would you be able to possibly tweak it to gain more from it?

I'll be logging with a friend this week and installing a boost gauge to see what I'm peaking/holding, are there any other blocks I should log while I'm at it?.  :smiley:

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeers
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: RTechUK on 13 February 2012, 21:01
You will need a 30psi boost gauge... :wink:


You will sh@t a brick when you see it pin 30psi for a second or 2..lol 

We can tweak you up a bit more when the soot blower is in a better shape.. :grin:   

Nick
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: scarr89 on 18 February 2012, 17:34
Group B:

TIME
STAMP
0
0.8
1.58
2.38
3.2
3.98
4.8
5.58
6.4
7.23
8.04
8.86
9.66
10.46
11.26
12.06
12.86
13.66
14.46
15.26
16.06
16.88
17.67
18.46
19.26
20.07
20.87
21.67
'008
Engine speed
2850-3150
 /min
1428
1575
1869
2289
2646
3045
3339
3591
3822
4032
4221
4389
4536
4662
4788
4893
4977
4389
2394
2352
2310
2268
2226
2184
2142
2079
2037
1995
IQ driver's req
65-70
 mg/R
17.6
52.4
62.6
67
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
70
0
2.7
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
IQ via rpm(Torq)
52-54
 mg/R
50.5
55.7
63.4
63.1
62
62.3
62.6
62.9
62.9
62.9
58.7
55.2
51.9
48
43.9
36.8
26.4
54.4
62.6
62.9
62.9
63.1
63.1
63.1
63.4
63.4
63.7
64
IQ via MAF
52-60
 mg/R
27.2
46.1
58.2
58.7
57.1
56.3
52.7
50.8
48.6
45.8
42.8
40.9
38.7
36.5
34.6
33.2
31.3
30.2
23.1
22.2
22.2
22.2
22.2
22.2
22.2
22.2
22.5
22.5
Group C:

TIME
STAMP
0.4
1.2
1.98
2.78
3.58
4.38
5.2
6.01
6.81
7.63
8.44
9.26
10.06
10.86
11.66
12.46
13.26
14.08
14.86
15.66
16.46
17.28
18.07
18.86
19.66
20.46
21.27
22.08
'011
Engine speed
2850-3150
 /min
1470
1701
2037
2436
2856
3192
3486
3717
3927
4137
4305
4473
4599
4725
4851
4935
4956
3150
2373
2331
2289
2247
2205
2163
2121
2058
2016
1974
Spec. intake press.
2300-2600
 mbar
1744.2
2244
2601
2601
2601
2601
2601
2601
2601
2601
2529.6
2437.8
2366.4
2284.8
2244
2244
1142.4
1336.2
1009.8
1009.8
1009.8
1009.8
999.6
999.6
999.6
999.6
999.6
999.6
Actual intake press.
2200-2800

1345.5
1989
2889.9
2983.5
2878.2
2644.2
2515.5
2480.4
2445.3
2410.2
2375.1
2340
2316.6
2304.9
2281.5
2269.8
2187.9
1872
1427.4
1263.6
1240.2
1228.5
1216.8
1205.1
1205.1
1193.4
1193.4
1181.7
D.cycle MAP
35-80%
 %
23.9
41
66.1
74.5
76.9
75.3
73.3
73.3
72.1
69.7
70.9
70.5
70.5
70.5
71.3
69.7
50.2
48.2
40.6
40.2
39.8
39.4
39
38.6
38.3
37.9
37.1
36.7
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting
Post by: scarr89 on 18 February 2012, 17:43
After plumbing back in the vacuum reservoir, to help cure the over boost. I have only plumbed back in the reservoir to see if this will cure it, as judging from the set up I don't see how the other valves will help as they literally do nothing now the EGR valve has gone.

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h208/old_n07/screendumps/Vac%20hoses/simplification/vac1.png)

 Just done logs on blocks 008 & 011 as suggested and have gotten the reading above, can some one please decipher them as I don't have a clue  :sad:

I can put them into graphs, but which values should I put into the graphs :smiley: Thanks guysss
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting *with new logging figures*
Post by: scarr89 on 23 February 2012, 20:15
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k573/scarr89/2012-02-23200101.jpg)

This is the graph of block 011...Anyone shed anylight on it? I peeking then dying off...How would I keep it hold the boost?
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting *with new logging figures*
Post by: sprout99 on 24 February 2012, 08:00
i have a problem with boost spikes on mine came make it do it if i throttle hard approx 2200 revs.

some days ok some not. Doing my head in.

At minute mine is very dosile until 2300 revs then torque comes in really sharp
which is ok when just pootling about but when pushed it really does overboost quite easily

I need to get torque smoothed out and to come in earlier. I'm not fussed about big numbers

No good having a car that spins it's wheels everywhere and eats tyres.

Our family wagon (Volvo V50 D5) is lovely and smooth but bags of grunt. Would like it to be more like that
rather than like an unpreictable teenager on redbull and blue smarties
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting *with new logging figures*
Post by: scarr89 on 04 March 2012, 19:26
Quote from: sprout99 on 24 February 2012, 08:00
i have a problem with boost spikes on mine came make it do it if i throttle hard approx 2200 revs.

some days ok some not. Doing my head in.

At minute mine is very dosile until 2300 revs then torque comes in really sharp
which is ok when just pootling about but when pushed it really does overboost quite easily

I need to get torque smoothed out and to come in earlier. I'm not fussed about big numbers

No good having a car that spins it's wheels everywhere and eats tyres.

Our family wagon (Volvo V50 D5) is lovely and smooth but bags of grunt. Would like it to be more like that
rather than like an unpreictable teenager on redbull and blue smarties

Excuse me for being ignorant, but if say I did a data logging session where by I applied power gradually until the redline then may I not get the overboost and awful spike? I thought with the data logging you were meant to do with the throttle wide open from as low down as possible until the redline?
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting *with new logging figures*
Post by: RTechUK on 06 March 2012, 20:26
Quote from: scarr89 on 04 March 2012, 19:26
Quote from: sprout99 on 24 February 2012, 08:00
i have a problem with boost spikes on mine came make it do it if i throttle hard approx 2200 revs.

some days ok some not. Doing my head in.

At minute mine is very dosile until 2300 revs then torque comes in really sharp
which is ok when just pootling about but when pushed it really does overboost quite easily

I need to get torque smoothed out and to come in earlier. I'm not fussed about big numbers

No good having a car that spins it's wheels everywhere and eats tyres.

Our family wagon (Volvo V50 D5) is lovely and smooth but bags of grunt. Would like it to be more like that
rather than like an unpreictable teenager on redbull and blue smarties

Excuse me for being ignorant, but if say I did a data logging session where by I applied power gradually until the redline then may I not get the overboost and awful spike? I thought with the data logging you were meant to do with the throttle wide open from as low down as possible until the redline?

You can data log under all conditions, part throttle, WOT light load full load, you can replicate all conditions and read the info off.  Most people log via a WOT sweep test so then can build up graphs.

In your case with your issues your best way to gain data is under extream conditioins, 4th gear WOT from 1600rpm to around 3200rpm to capture the data where the overboost happens.


As for pipes, I have only seen issues with the valves removed and only log and test with them in place as they should be, so I can only advise to replace all the vac pipes and valves back in line and just plug the anti shudder and egr line.    The VNT vac control is very sensitive.  You need to fix the hardware so the actual boost matchs or gets close to what the map is asking for.  I may take a little time to sort, but will be well worth it in the end.

Nick
Title: Re: Remapped 150PD overboosting *with new logging figures*
Post by: scarr89 on 06 March 2012, 21:09
Ok, brill, thanks. I will do some logs soon, report back and see if it has helped!