GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Khare on 11 February 2012, 15:53
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Before power/torque
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/abfdyno.jpg)
Before power/AFR
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/AFRABF.jpg)
After power/torque (sorry for bad pics, scanner isn't working)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/IMG_20120211_154049.jpg)
After power/AFR
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/IMG_20120211_154106.jpg)
9hp increase! The chip is the only modification I've done since the previous dyno run. Results are quite clear. Graph is smoother and torque and power is more linear, with torque getting a very nice boost after 4500rpm. Those who know (Glen, I'm looking at you especially), what can you tell me from the AFR of the new output? Is it running lean/rich at any point in the range?
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Looks like that chip is some kind of amplifier. It's just made the fuel richer in a few places. Optimum a/f is 13 and it's not far off. The lower than 13 at the start or the graph would be for emissions.
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Great result, i reckon youll get better mpg also,i know i did :cool:
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Is that this chip?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320823949535?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_998wt_689
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Great result, i reckon youll get better mpg also,i know i did :cool:
Yeah MPG has been better ever since fitting the chip. Only while cruising though.
Is that this chip?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320823949535?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_998wt_689
That's the one.
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Someone's sales are gunna go up because of this.
Sticky??? Too save future threads asking the same things
(because this never happens in the mk3 section lol)
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Someone's sales are gunna go up because of this.
Ditto. I should be given commission! :grin:
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Top banana! I should expect mine to be producing very similar results to yours then mate. :smiley:
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Top banana! I should expect mine to be producing very similar results to yours then mate. :smiley:
Yup, as all chips are written with the same map. I wonder why RJ only got 6hp though?
Oh yeah, and this also proves drilled/cut airboxes do NOT make you lose power!
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In regards of RJ's results I'd assume that would be down to different variables on the day, temperature, fuel used, engine health, tyre pressures, dyno set up etc etc
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At least we now know for sure they definitely work.
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think il have to get a new purchase soon then!
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Open to offers as well so bargains to be had.
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Open to offers as well so bargains to be had.
Yup. I got mine for £35 delivered I think it was.
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Just out of interest ,khare what milage has your engine done.
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I'm sure mine was £38 delivered.
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Just out of interest ,khare what milage has your engine done.
121,000. Ish.
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Just out of interest ,khare what milage has your engine done.
121,000. Ish.
Ah right ,just wondering what my output would be as i have 167,000,bit looser less friction more power? more miles less compression less power? guess only the rr can say :smiley:
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Mine's a well cared for 121k engine, yours could be a well cared for 167k engine. Plenty of high mileage engines with good power out there! Give it a try, for £40 you can't really go wrong!
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Mine's a well cared for 121k engine, yours could be a well cared for 167k engine. Plenty of high mileage engines with good power out there! Give it a try, for £40 you can't really go wrong!
Allready got one in mate,for over a year now,need to get it on a rr .
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Do it :smiley:
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How does it prove cut boxes don't lose you horse power.......
Does prove chip is good value though :cool:
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How does it prove cut boxes don't lose you horse power.......
Does prove chip is good value though :cool:
+1 did you do a run with a modified sealed airbox to compare?
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I'm still not convinced with cut out air boxes myself but that's another debate entirely which has been asked about on here for years.
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Damn Khare you have some nice curves :grin:
Nice result, although you do have to remember that the atmospherics can also have a noticeable impact on a power run. Looking at the temperatures on the bottom of the graph it was very cold which will have gone in your favour, where did they take the intake temperature reading from?
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How does it prove cut boxes don't lose you horse power.......
Does prove chip is good value though :cool:
+1 did you do a run with a modified sealed airbox to compare?
No, but....155hp BEFORE chip kinda makes my 16v (remember, exhaust doesn't add much, maybe 1 or 2 MAX) a pretty powerful stock one. I do want to try a sealed box one day.
Damn Khare you have some nice curves :grin:
Nice result, although you do have to remember that the atmospherics can also have a noticeable impact on a power run. Looking at the temperatures on the bottom of the graph it was very cold which will have gone in your favour, where did they take the intake temperature reading from?
[/quote
Yeah air temp was 0 as you can see. JKM placed their intake temp probe somewhere around, I didn't see where. I've just realized though that I didn't have a cold air intake at the last dyno day (well, I did, but not as well placed as the current fog lamp one). Nevertheless, the temp is irrelevant. The chip can deliver the power people thought it couldn't. The problem was always that people often dyno their cars in the summer! :grin:
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Just because yours gained 9bhp does not mean that another would gain the same, it could be that the chip really suits yours.
I have never been keen on ebay chips having seen so many cause problems or damage.
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As anyone tried this on an 8v?
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Just because yours gained 9bhp does not mean that another would gain the same, it could be that the chip really suits yours.
I have never been keen on ebay chips having seen so many cause problems or damage.
All abf's are the same, some have more miles, some have less, some are better cared for than others.
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Although I will add that when i spoke to the seller he did mention that there were several different ECU's on the 16v's...
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Although I will add that when i spoke to the seller he did mention that there were several different ECU's on the 16v's...
Yup, but that's because there's different ECUs for the 16v.
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Just because yours gained 9bhp does not mean that another would gain the same, it could be that the chip really suits yours.
I have never been keen on ebay chips having seen so many cause problems or damage.
All abf's are the same, some have more miles, some have less, some are better cared for than others.
I think that's the point Wayne is trying to make, the history and mileage of an engine could also have an effect on the power output :wink:
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Just because yours gained 9bhp does not mean that another would gain the same, it could be that the chip really suits yours.
I have never been keen on ebay chips having seen so many cause problems or damage.
All abf's are the same, some have more miles, some have less, some are better cared for than others.
I think that's the point Wayne is trying to make, the history and mileage of an engine could also have an effect on the power output :wink:
Thanks Dom :kiss: one that has been ragged to death should make more power than a low miler, that is obvious but my point still stands, yes you gained 9bhp but that does not mean they all would.
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to me it looks like the increase has little to do with the almost identical fuelling and more to do with the 12 degree intake temperature difference..
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to me it looks like the increase has little to do with the almost identical fuelling and more to do with the 12 degree intake temperature difference..
For sure that'll be an advantage.
As will an increase in ignition advance, you'd imagine.
Either way, a gain of 9BHP is a useful amount extra...especially for under £40.
It's far more than you get spending £500 on a bling exhaust or £150 on a noisy open inlet kit.
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(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/Untitled-1copy.jpg)
Dark red line is the chipped run, lighter red is OEM chip.
Joe (pepeoi) has said he can make the chip stronger with more fuel and more advance, he reckons he can get another 5hp out of it. He said he has a Mk3 ABF himself, so testing wouldn't be a problem. I've spoken to Glen though and he says he only got 165-168hp on his with similar mods on a dyno optimized re-map, so that there's no point in getting another chip which isn't dyno optimized for MY car. I told Joe this and that I'm planning on porting and polishing the throttle body in the next few days (dremel is on the way) so for now I'm going to keep running the chip I have as I'm very happy with it and maybe at a later date I'll get another chip off him, to compensate for the ported throttle body. I'm aiming for the 170hp mark with the porting. After than any power will have to come from cams or headwork, as there's little left to change on the surface.
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Puts an Rtech remap in the shade then!
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Puts an Rtech remap in the shade then!
Not really, no matter what the car a remap is always a better bet as it matched to the car and designed to give optimum results throughout the rev range, ebay chips are not the best idea, they may work and give good power on one car but may not on another.
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I totally agree, a decent custom remap will always be better than a generic chip.
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Puts an Rtech remap in the shade then!
Not really, no matter what the car a remap is always a better bet as it matched to the car and designed to give optimum results throughout the rev range, ebay chips are not the best idea, they may work and give good power on one car but may not on another.
Agree. However from the plot mine seems to have responded very well.
Here's the HP and torque. This time the darker red is the before and lighter red is after.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/abfdynocopy.jpg)
A fair bit more torque and power, especially after 4500rpm.
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Is it just me, or is anyone else quite sceptical about rolling road results?
Sorry, Khare you're car is obviously a good un :wink:
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Is it just me, or is anyone else quite sceptical about rolling road results?
Sorry, Khare you're car is obviously a good un :wink:
Very.
To be honest I think that in order to get true results you need to dyno your car with and without the chip back to back. With such a difference in intake temperature the two runs don't mean a huge amount as the gain could be purely down to that :undecided:
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Is it just me, or is anyone else quite sceptical about rolling road results?
Sorry, Khare you're car is obviously a good un :wink:
Very.
To be honest I think that in order to get true results you need to dyno your car with and without the chip back to back. With such a difference in intake temperature the two runs don't mean a huge amount as the gain could be purely down to that :undecided:
Also if the dyno is overreading by say 10%, then both results will be up 10%, and the 'gain' will be up 10%, if that makes sense..
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True! There's just too many variables :grin:
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Same dyno, same dyno operators, same tyre pressures. To be honest I fitted the chip and instantly spotted the improvements and where they happened, which I reported back here and then the dyno confirmed. To strengthen the dyno's accuracy, a stock mk5 gti got 197.2hp, bang on the factory power.
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You can notice the difference and the rr proves that.
End of! :grin:
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Same dyno, same dyno operators, same tyre pressures. To be honest I fitted the chip and instantly spotted the improvements and where they happened, which I reported back here and then the dyno confirmed. To strengthen the dyno's accuracy, a stock mk5 gti got 197.2hp, bang on the factory power.
The only true way of knowing is to run the car as standard then on the same day fit the chip and do another run, so many things can happen to affect the reading that is the only true way.
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Same dyno, same dyno operators, same tyre pressures. To be honest I fitted the chip and instantly spotted the improvements and where they happened, which I reported back here and then the dyno confirmed. To strengthen the dyno's accuracy, a stock mk5 gti got 197.2hp, bang on the factory power.
The only true way of knowing is to run the car as standard then on the same day fit the chip and do another run, so many things can happen to affect the reading that is the only true way.
Very true, and that is the only real way to know the true power gain on a dyno. However I do my best to find out how much each modification has given by always using the same dyno. Apart from Rtech, I've never used any other dyno other than JKM's. Jim and Keith know very well how to properly dyno cars, and because it's always them two it brings consistency into the figures.
Yes the air temp and intake temp were different on both days, but a 9hp difference? No. Plenty of guys there who had their cars dynoed at other rolling roads in the last few months got bang on the power they had expected, which was the power they had got at the previous dyno they used, on a very different day in terms of temp. Shootout mode in the dyno dynamics machinery is very good indeed, and the reason why if I do use another rolling road I want it to be dyno dynamics, is because the shootout mode brings a level of consistency across all DD machines, for balanced figures.
I will carry on going to JKM for as long as I possibly can, because a) they know my car b) they're consistent and c) JKM offer great advice after your run if something on the graph is not as it should be.
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Just ported and polished the throttle body. Didn't drive it long enough to make a full verdict, but it does seem more responsive on first impressions.
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The real acid test would be on the strip!
Fancy a run off mate?
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The real acid test would be on the strip!
Fancy a run off mate?
Bit far from you mate, but maybe one day :grin:
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http://www.vwaction.com/gtispring/quarter-mile-sprints.html
tenner says khare tears len up
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ooooooooooooooooooooo
Very tempting! very tempting indeed!
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I'm not racing that weekend either, so I could well pop along :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: