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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: mongchops on 09 February 2012, 14:46

Title: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 09 February 2012, 14:46
Folks.
Just changed the starter motor on my 16v. it has been tested and in good working order and is the same type as the one i have just taken off. But, i have a problem.

When i turn the key, all i hear is a click. i have tried boosting power from another car with leads but to no avail.

Any ideas you have would be gratefully received.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: walchy01 on 09 February 2012, 17:51
sounds like thats Knackered too :sad:
Clicking is normally the sound from memory when the starter motor is dead :sick:

Good luck..
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 09 February 2012, 19:09
No mate. The starter motor has been tested while not engaged and does what it should.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: twotwofour on 09 February 2012, 19:52
Is it the starter motor thats clicking?

Get your head in there
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Wayne on 09 February 2012, 20:11
Sounds like the starter is sticking or you have a voltage problem
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 09 February 2012, 20:16
yup, it is defo the starter motor clicking. how do i know if i have a voltage problem? the wires to the starter seem to be sound tho if this could be the issue i can always cut and reconnect.

Thanks for the words, i will buy you all a beer one day.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 February 2012, 20:23
Did you replace the bell housing bush when you changed it .... if you didn't, then there's a good chance its the worn bush giving a poor ground.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 09 February 2012, 20:44
A bell housing bush????
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 February 2012, 23:21
It's a brass copper ring that the end of the starter motor centres on, it also acts as the main earth for the motor itself.

Could be your issue as what you hear is the solenoid engaging, which should then power up the starter itself. I assume your flywheel turns easily and without too much resistance?
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 10 February 2012, 08:33
No mate, I saw no brass copper ring apart from the power lead connection. when the starter is off it works fine so maybe the flywheel is a little heavy as its been sat for 6 months.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: twotwofour on 10 February 2012, 11:00
Then put the car in gear and roll it up and down the road. There is something wrong if the flywheel wont spin though.

I recently bought a starter for the mk3 8v engine and there were 3 different variants of the starter motor, 2 looked physically the same but carried a different part number and another looked similar but had a different shaft on the starter motor.

Testing a used starter outside of an engine does not prove its good as its not working under load.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 10 February 2012, 11:25
i have pushed the car in fifth gear for a short distance and the engine turned so i assume the flywheel would too as it was in gear. I compared the two starter motors and although i couldnt see if the part nos were the same they were identical in every other way. looks like a job for a man with spanners. more money wasted methinks though if it starts then its for sale again so money back, ish.

thanks for the words though, appreciated.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Ben Lessani on 10 February 2012, 15:39
No mate, I saw no brass copper ring apart from the power lead connection.

No. Read what I put.

The bush is in the bell housing - when you slot your starter motor in, it is what the spindle centres on inside the bell housing.

You should replace this if you ever suspect a faulty starter motor - as it is commonly the cause of the issue in the first place.

Remove your starter, remove the bush and replace it.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 10 February 2012, 16:31
I thought that bush was just there to support the shaft as it spins.
It can cause the gear to catch if it becomes damaged or off centre.
This happened on my old vr6.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Ben Lessani on 10 February 2012, 18:08
It acts as both a support and a ground for the starter armature (Or at least I think so)
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 10 February 2012, 22:45
It acts as both a support and a ground for the starter armature (Or at least I think so)

I must admit i've never heard that before  :undecided:
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 11 February 2012, 11:55
I'm giving up. Anyone know of a good mobile mechanic in the Welling area?
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: clipperjay on 11 February 2012, 12:11
There is a cog inside the block the bendix shaft can sometimes break so if it the starter motor spins okay its not engaging the shat to turn her over?
You haven't been clear if the actuall starter motor spins around when 12V is applied onto it off block?
It can click as much as it likes doesn't mean its working?
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 11 February 2012, 13:59
the starter motor spins when it is not in place on the turn of the key. I will have to try to take it off again to see inside the block. it is such a pain to put back on though, whoever designed the bolts to go through the mount needs a slap.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Ben Lessani on 11 February 2012, 18:41
Just
whoever designed the bolts to go through the mount needs a slap.

Support the engine with a jack and its no bother to remove.



It acts as both a support and a ground for the starter armature (Or at least I think so)

I must admit i've never heard that before  :undecided:

Its from experience. I've replaced 2x starters in MK2's and in both cases, the new starter performed exactly like the old [assumed faulty] one. But after replacing the bell housing bush, they worked just like new.

@mongchops ... just change the bell housing bush and report back, seriously. It takes minutes to remove, just use a suitable sized tap and thread it into the bush, then pull out.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: clipperjay on 11 February 2012, 19:24
Ben use this to explain it might make it clearer?
(http://www.aa1car.com/library/2002/starter_cutaway.jpg)

TBH if the shaft on the block is broken you would see loads of bits coming out and on the starter end cog.
Its just something to rule out.
But if the starter motor only moves in one direction by hand and it spins the starter should be fine.
The whole starter is a ground plus bolted to the block?  :undecided:

Support the engine with a piece of wood between the jack and engine it will help to minimise any damage as the wood will take the load better!

Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: mongchops on 15 February 2012, 11:26
All I will say is "Doh!!!!"

Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: richie2480 on 15 February 2012, 12:29
a
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: smiffy555 on 15 February 2012, 12:52
All I will say is "Doh!!!!"



What you gone and done Mongchops???? wired it in wrong, upside down, in the boot.......?
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Ben Lessani on 15 February 2012, 13:49
Ah the 16v starter might be different to the 8v - thats why.

On the 8v, the end of the shaft (with the gear on it), is free floating and only supported/centred by the bell housing bush. Whereas the image above looks like the newer VAG design where the shaft is supported by an extra arm that extends to it. If that's the case, the bush is integral to the starter and my point is moot.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Jamtarts on 15 February 2012, 15:49
Hi,

I'm sorry if this is wrong, or a stupid post, or even if you've got it fixed but I'll post it on the off chance that it helps you,

My 8v MK2 starter motor does similar when I start it sometimes, it seems to be a loose cable on the end of it (the blade/bayonet cable bit) it keeps shaking loose.  If I take it off and plug it on again it starts first time.  I really need to get it fixed.  I'll try and get a photo of the cable later and show you if you need.

I'm not very good with mechanics and parts etc, it was the AA guy that showed me it and I haven't got round to getting it fixed yet, but hopefully it might help you,
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: molegti on 15 February 2012, 22:17
Hi,

I'm sorry if this is wrong, or a stupid post, or even if you've got it fixed but I'll post it on the off chance that it helps you,

My 8v MK2 starter motor does similar when I start it sometimes, it seems to be a loose cable on the end of it (the blade/bayonet cable bit) it keeps shaking loose.  If I take it off and plug it on again it starts first time.  I really need to get it fixed.  I'll try and get a photo of the cable later and show you if you need.

I'm not very good with mechanics and parts etc, it was the AA guy that showed me it and I haven't got round to getting it fixed yet, but hopefully it might help you,

Cant help with the original post but i've had this issue. Its just the connector to the soleniod working loose because its worn. Slight nip with a pair of pliers did the trick, either that or replace the connector.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Jamtarts on 16 February 2012, 10:21
Hi,

I'm sorry if this is wrong, or a stupid post, or even if you've got it fixed but I'll post it on the off chance that it helps you,

My 8v MK2 starter motor does similar when I start it sometimes, it seems to be a loose cable on the end of it (the blade/bayonet cable bit) it keeps shaking loose.  If I take it off and plug it on again it starts first time.  I really need to get it fixed.  I'll try and get a photo of the cable later and show you if you need.

I'm not very good with mechanics and parts etc, it was the AA guy that showed me it and I haven't got round to getting it fixed yet, but hopefully it might help you,

Cant help with the original post but i've had this issue. Its just the connector to the soleniod working loose because its worn. Slight nip with a pair of pliers did the trick, either that or replace the connector.

that's not bad, I might manage that myself hehe, do I need to disconnect battery first or is it safe enough to use pliers on it whilst it's connected?
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: molegti on 16 February 2012, 12:23
Its not live until you start the car.
Title: Re: Starter motor
Post by: Jamtarts on 16 February 2012, 12:28
Its not live until you start the car.

brilliant, thanks for your help, I was going to get someone to do it but I should manage that :)