GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: simon20vt on 12 January 2012, 18:27
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Quick question on the Audi S3 225/210bhp
Do they both use a KO4 turbo? i know engine codes are different, but getting mixed answers what turbo they use. Some people are sayin the 210bhp model uses the KO3s. If anyone could answer this question with a definite answer that would be great.
used to have a MK4 1.8T, now got a Saxo VTS, but I miss turbo's :( so I'm looking at getting an S3, and then getting it mapped. Would keep my VTS though and take it off the road and track it, as it is a fun car to drive.
Cheers :smiley:
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pretty sure they both use ko4 but the 4wd system will eat alot of bhp :undecided:
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pretty sure they both use ko4 but the 4wd system will eat alot of bhp :undecided:
I swear not long ago somone mentioned that they had lost 60 through the awd :shocked:
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This is true a loss of power, but anymore than 220 through front wheels of a MK4, struggles to put it down, especially in the wet... Still, despite the loss of power, will put the power down quicker off the line than a FWD MK4, just not as much power at top end... correct me if i'm wrong but also better handling, as lighter than a MK4 too?
I'd expect to say about 40bhp lost through transmission, compared to a FWD about 20bhp transmission loss.
I want a facelift model, but some were made with 210bhp, and some with 225bhp, if they are both KO4, i'm not too fussed which, as both will map to similar? Correct me if i'm wrong, engine codes are different, but surely theres not too much difference between a 225 BAM, to a 210bhp engine code?
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dont think they are lighter than a mk4 an im sure i lost alot more than 40bhp in my 4mo :angry:
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I'm almost certain the only difference between the 210 and 225 is the map that's on it.
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No, I loose 40hp through my MK2 16vt. From this 60 sounds correct, just a little extreme :laugh:
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dont think they are lighter than a mk4 an im sure i lost alot more than 40bhp in my 4mo :angry:
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/audi/a3/hatchback-1996/22168/
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/volkswagen/golf/hatchback-1997/14126/
apparently so?
S3 will be a lot better handling with Haldex too. Or a cheaper alternative to an S3 would be a TT, what you think? Probably a chance they are slightly less molested as well?
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agreed it will handle better than a mk4 :smiley:
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dont think they are lighter than a mk4 an im sure i lost alot more than 40bhp in my 4mo :angry:
REALLY!
right im saving for a vf supercharger :evil:
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dont think they are lighter than a mk4 an im sure i lost alot more than 40bhp in my 4mo :angry:
REALLY!
right im saving for a vf supercharger :evil:
yes u lose a fair bit through 4wd :angry:
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still they will rinse a gti.. :tongue:
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they're not lighter than a mk4, the info on parkers is wrong. There are a few differences management/sensor wise between the 210 and 225 but both are K04.
don't get me started on drivetrain losses :grin: its really not as simple as applying a factor to a dyno figure or even measuring coast-down losses when it comes to haldex systems.
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still they will rinse a gti.. :tongue:
dont know about a tuned 1 :wink:
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they're not lighter than a mk4, the info on parkers is wrong. There are a few differences management/sensor wise between the 210 and 225 but both are K04.
don't get me started on drivetrain losses :grin: its really not as simple as applying a factor to a dyno figure or even measuring coast-down losses when it comes to haldex systems.
ok, say you were running a standard 225bhp, with a 0-60 of 6.6, a map will see 265-270, and a 0-60 should potentially be in the high 5's/very low 6's... top end acceleration gains won't be as good as a FWD due to transmission loss. So all in all,
Seat Cupra R, FWD, or Audi S3 4WD... what would you have and why, both same power, just difference in transmission... Audi would be quicker off the line as FWD struggle to put power down?
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neither, i'd buy a golf and with the money saved put a big turbo on it :grin:
leons are tacky and most S3s i see have been thrashed their whole lives.
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haha, insurance says no as I'm only 21 :smiley:
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with haldex and even syncros, dynos get confused and can under and over read very easy. and on FWD cars you dont get the full picture ether.
on a 2wd car your only spinning the frount wheels on the dyno so rolling resitance on the rear wheels dosent play a part , on a 4wd it dose.
did a few experiments for the hell of it with my s3 like cradeling up the back end when it was on the dyno then disconecting the prop and compareing runs. there is also quite a lot more rotating mass in a 4wd system and that has inertia that should also be considerd.
real world transimition losses arn't much more than a 2wd unless there is slip between the frount wheels and the road thats when the back end gets drafeted in to do some work, so by rights in some conditions 4wd systems have much less transmition loss than 2wd as wheel spin is a transmition loss
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buy my S3 it's not been thrashed much, honest :evil: needs a littel bit of bodyfiller tho
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danny while you're in 4wd mode... my mate has been driving around in his vr6 syncro with the plug to the rear diff AND the vac line both disconnected. Is that just the VC at risk of chewing itself or could it cause damage further up the drive train? seeing some leakage around the transfer box/prop...
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buy my S3 it's not been thrashed much, honest :evil: needs a littel bit of bodyfiller tho
how much? haha...
dont mind, bodywork is unimportant ;) its whats under the bonnet that counts :laugh:
guess your really not selling as you have a GT3582R on the way? what power are you looking to get from your S3? :smiley:
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iv got a lcr and its only have the torque upped and it cant get the power down in even the dampest conditions, my dads got a s3 and id have that all day long over the leon or golf not only is has it got more power and better handling it is also better built and better quality.
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iv got a lcr and its only have the torque upped and it cant get the power down in even the dampest conditions, my dads got a s3 and id have that all day long over the leon or golf not only is has it got more power and better handling it is also better built and better quality.
thanks for the advice mate :)
already had two MK4 1.8T's so looking for a little different which the Audi would be with the 4WD :)
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oh and the 210 is pritty much same engine remaps to the same aswell, 210 is pre face lift but cheaper tax than the 225 :smiley:
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210bhp is an APY or AMK, 225 is a BAM engine, the 225 if you can find a good one is the better car, very expensive car to run whichever version you get.
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buy my S3 it's not been thrashed much, honest :evil: needs a littel bit of bodyfiller tho
how much? haha...
dont mind, bodywork is unimportant ;) its whats under the bonnet that counts :laugh:
guess your really not selling as you have a GT3582R on the way? what power are you looking to get from your S3? :smiley:
if someone will buy it i'll sell it and GT3582R has been fitted :smiley:. was looking for a very strong 500 but was turned down while waiting for some better valves to arrive for the new head. as the gt30 , head and piston were mashed by a droped valve. don't really matter now tho, i've been getting very tempted by ginetta's and spoted one at a good price and a mate offerd me a good price for the S3 , lets just say after the test drive it's sold by default* and i'm glad i wasent rideing shotgun
* In theory but i have a feeling the cash may take a long time to arrive
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s3 with the 2.0 TDI engine tuned (map and turbo, possibly injectors), sure it would only have 250bhp but the torque going through the 4wd system makes me feel funny :evil:
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i had a MK4 1.8t and then went onto a 2002 S3, revo'd, 3" turbo back exhaust, H&R front and rear ARB's, H&R coilovers, LCR front Brembos, Forge FMIC, Forge 007p, blue haldex controller and a few other bits and bobs. Goes like stink and handles awesome :)
Not looked back since buying it, however I am looking into a B5 S4 :evil: Still will be sad to see the S3 leave.
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AMK or BAM are the engines to go for
only difference is the factory map on these, AMK is 210, BAM 225, other than that they are identical. anyone that says otherwise is a idiot
APY 210s were different, sensors, no VVT etc etc baba staba
as said unfortunately most S3's have been ragged to death and they feel numb as fook with that Haldex set up
Love my engine, Brutal as f**k in the MK3, ask ben Victors on here what it did against a New Leon thing last nite (the ones with the same engine as the New S3 :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed:)
Danny what Turbo you got??? how much you looking for?, currently looking at GT30 set ups
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the GT30 that came off is damaged unfortunatly shrapnel took out the inpeller on the hot side. valve spring retainer problem
sent it in for examination / and overhaul if its good for it. if you intrested drop me a PM as chould have the turbo shop adjust it for you.
god knows what the one on the cars like. find out monday
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deffo interested mate, as it is now. i have a friend who owns a turbo centre so i could get any work done myself
let me know what you are doing with it etc.. also what manifold have you got or are you keeping that? Even if you are I'm still interested to know what your running.. currently deciding best way for me to go, as i want to keep my Custom Downpipe and thinking to have a custom adapter made up to suit a GT30
Also how was the lag with the 30 ??
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AMK or BAM are the engines to go for
only difference is the factory map on these, AMK is 210, BAM 225, other than that they are identical. anyone that says otherwise is a idiot
APY 210s were different, sensors, no VVT etc etc baba staba
as said unfortunately most S3's have been ragged to death and they feel numb as fook with that Haldex set up
Love my engine, Brutal as f**k in the MK3, ask ben Victors on here what it did against a New Leon thing last nite (the ones with the same engine as the New S3 :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed:)
Danny what Turbo you got??? how much you looking for?, currently looking at GT30 set ups
you got a BAM in the MK3 still KO4? what power you running? presume you got 4wd too?
I have heard that the wrist pins in an AMK are 19mm and ones in BAM are 18mm which is the only difference? or is that in the APY?
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AMK or BAM are the engines to go for
only difference is the factory map on these, AMK is 210, BAM 225, other than that they are identical. anyone that says otherwise is a idiot
APY 210s were different, sensors, no VVT etc etc baba staba
as said unfortunately most S3's have been ragged to death and they feel numb as fook with that Haldex set up
Love my engine, Brutal as f**k in the MK3, ask ben Victors on here what it did against a New Leon thing last nite (the ones with the same engine as the New S3 :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed:)
Danny what Turbo you got??? how much you looking for?, currently looking at GT30 set ups
you got a BAM in the MK3 still KO4? what power you running? presume you got 4wd too?
I have heard that the wrist pins in an AMK are 19mm and ones in BAM are 18mm which is the only difference? or is that in the APY?
He is running fwd and doesnt have any powerfigures as of yet. As stated in the previous post the engines are identical so Im not sure why they would bother changing the pins
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no idea, but these car companies do funny things sometimes... e.g swap KO3 for KO3s but still run a 150bhp map.. AUM - pops coilpacks for fun, but AGU doesn't pins are slightly different on those too i believe?... ha. Glad to not have coilpack problems anymore, thats one thing I can say I havent missed from my Golf. I miss boost though :( definitely need it back in my life
think will go for a 210 S3 and get a map as insurance £200 cheaper on the 210 compared to 225... that will go towards a nice milltek and forge recirc :grin:
Anyone got anything I should particularly look for issues wise when looking to buy an S3? Common faults etc etc?
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Mine is the AMK. Searched a long time to find this engine. It has 40k miles and the bigger pins and is one of the last made as its a 2004. By this year most S3 had the bam
Other than the pins it is just the factory map thats different. Both map to same so u are best off with AMK. You will be remapping anyhow ;-)
Mine has mods, obviously has KO4.
It is going to carbon and been left their for further custom mapping in a week or so ;-)
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Mine is the AMK. Searched a long time to find this engine. It has 40k miles and the bigger pins and is one of the last made as its a 2004. By this year most S3 had the bam
Other than the pins it is just the factory map thats different. Both map to same so u are best off with AMK. You will be remapping anyhow ;-)
Mine has mods, obviously has KO4.
It is going to carbon and been left their for further custom mapping in a week or so ;-)
You not fancy the journey down to R-Tech? Can't recommend them enough after I went there before. How do you find all the power through the front wheels?
bet insurance crucified you when you told them of you new lump haha.
Will look for an AMK facelift model :) seen a couple of S3's within budget. The 4WD appeals to me because of the launch you can get from standing start, my MK4 1.8T struggled to put down 221bhp ATF, 200 ATW. I'm not massively fussed about top end speed. Especially on everyday roads.
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Carbon all the way for my car... Very picky who works on it or goes near it. They treat it like I do and they are like family now hahaha :grin:
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make sure the haldex has been regularly serviced and make sure the gear box doesnt grind in 3rd when you let off the power and it revs down, then all the usual stuff realy.
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Will look for an AMK facelift model :) seen a couple of S3's within budget. The 4WD appeals to me because of the launch you can get from standing start, my MK4 1.8T struggled to put down 221bhp ATF, 200 ATW. I'm not massively fussed about top end speed. Especially on everyday roads.
4WD comes into its own powering round and out of corners and makes a hell of diffrance in real world performance in less than ideal conditions.
as for launching 4wd cars you can pull off a lot quicker than any 2wd but HARD launching is fun but also f**king expensive habbit. managed to strip the crownwheel and pinion on the frount diff doing that, then split the transfer case stoped doing it then. going over hump back bridges flat in 3rd is also not good, dip the clutch before landing else 3rd gear goes away :evil: in std form there pritty much bomb proof tho.
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Also how was the lag with the 30 ??
the for its size its a very responsive turbo, find yourself driveing it a bit diffrently tho but getting it setup right is everything tho. mine spent meany hours on the rollers been fetteld by j as it was prmearaly a toy but 2ndry pourpose was as test bed/ dyno b!tch. when it was first thrown on with just a quick check and tweek of the maps for safety check it was a bit nasty to drive and felt very lump hammer like to drive , after proper tuneing it was pritty bloody awsome,
after it got an adjusted eaton TVS kit fitted that we were working on for putting 20v's into lotus elise's ( for a bit of durablity testing ) that made the car
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