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General => General discussion => Topic started by: mk3.owner on 04 January 2012, 12:47
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Comment's also Welcome
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Bit general, id say a lot of younger drivers are worse. Should be a reaction test needed when you get over 60
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I doubt you'll be classing yourself as an 'OAP' at 50!
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There should be some sort of competency test to include both theory and practical, having said that I agree with the earlier comment that younger drivers are just as bad if not worse. How many drivers actually keep up to date with the highway code once they have passed their test?
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I don't think it's to do with age, although a lot of older people (70+) seem to be really sh!t at driving.
I think there should be some form of retake X amount of years after the test was first taken, to keep drivers up to date with current driving theories and methods.
I imagine everything to do with driving and the tests has changed drastically in the last 30/40/50 years since some people took their test.
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people should retake their tests after X number of years imo I know a few people who have scary driving habits and DON'T see more than 1 second ahead of them and clearly don't see the hazards ahead / don't see indicators and then slam on brakes at the last second ... scary sh!t :shocked: :sick:
X should be decided by analysts, not Joe Blogs.
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I might be wrong but did the law not change so that @ 65 a retest is now mandatory.
Also oap's are not the only problem some young drivers are shocking.
My dad is 68 and is a very good driver but he has told me on many occasions that it has changed so much since he passed his test.
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My Dad's 65 in a few weeks and on trackdays is slower than me in the dry but quicker in the wet. He also does approx 1K miles a month of work mileage and is a good driver. My Mum who is 63 on the other hand is not that great a driver. She'd not bad, but lacks confidence and always has. Neither of their driving has so far been effected by age.
My Gran gave up driving @ 85 as she felt she couldn't focus on it as well as she used to and found her spacial awereness was not as good anymore.
Njick
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people should retake their tests after X number of years imo I know a few people who have scary driving habits and DON'T see more than 1 second ahead of them and clearly don't see the hazards ahead / don't see indicators and then slam on brakes at the last second ... scary sh!t :shocked: :sick:
X should be decided by analysts, not Joe Blogs.
Agree.
I think this is more aimed the the pensioners over 70 that cant see anything around them.
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Personally I'd like to see everyone have to retake every 5 years but this isn't practical but I think a test every 10 should be and don't give softy chances either, if you fail, you can't drive til you pass :evil:
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Sod all this re-test business and stick people on a track. If they are not capable of reaching a set time repeatably and without crashing then they just should not be allowed on the road full stop. People may mention logistics here but this is perfectly acheivable and would bring a lot of business to race circuits around the country and give employment to a lot of instructors. You may also say that track driving is completely different to road driving and yes, to an extent I would agree, however, it does ensure that you have good hand to eye co-ordination, stress management ability and spacial awareness in stressfull situations, something that just isnt tested at the moment and is very necessary when you are about to have an accident.
Im sick of all of these "safe" (read incapable of driving faster out of fear of losing control/getting pulled for speeding/lack of spacial awareness to take in what is occuring around them) drivers who feel it is fine to drive at 30 in 40 zones or think that the speed limits are gospel everywhere. Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons. This just leads to the inevitable trails of people following one twit (usually over 50) who insists that 30 is a fine speed for such a road or a tractor that just cant go faster and then ends in people taking ridiculous risks to overtake the lot of them in one go since everyone bunches up due to the low speed and no-one will overtake as they just dont have the bottle to do it safely any more or are scared of being arrested for speeding (and the suicide lanes have mostly all gone to help with this).
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Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons.
Dick. My cousin was killed walking along a path by some cnut on a road like you're describing. his defence was 'I do trackdays so can control a vehicle at high speed on suitable roads' .....clearly on that particular day he couldnt.
Hopefully he was raped to pieces in prison.
The speed limits are there for a reason, i do speed limits pretty much everywhere, even the motorway these days. if you've got a problem with it, f**k off to the autobahn an wank yourself silly
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Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons.
Dick. My cousin was killed walking along a path by some cnut on a road like you're describing. his defence was 'I do trackdays so can control a vehicle at high speed on suitable roads' .....clearly on that particular day he couldnt.
Hopefully he was raped to pieces in prison.
The speed limits are there for a reason, i do speed limits pretty much everywhere, even the motorway these days. if you've got a problem with it, f**k off to the autobahn an wank yourself silly
Theres always one :rolleyes:.
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Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons.
Dick. My cousin was killed walking along a path by some cnut on a road like you're describing. his defence was 'I do trackdays so can control a vehicle at high speed on suitable roads' .....clearly on that particular day he couldnt.
Hopefully he was raped to pieces in prison.
The speed limits are there for a reason, i do speed limits pretty much everywhere, even the motorway these days. if you've got a problem with it, f**k off to the autobahn an wank yourself silly
Theres always one :rolleyes:.
What do you mean there is always one?! :angry:
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Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons.
Dick. My cousin was killed walking along a path by some cnut on a road like you're describing. his defence was 'I do trackdays so can control a vehicle at high speed on suitable roads' .....clearly on that particular day he couldnt.
Hopefully he was raped to pieces in prison.
The speed limits are there for a reason, i do speed limits pretty much everywhere, even the motorway these days. if you've got a problem with it, f**k off to the autobahn an wank yourself silly
Theres always one :rolleyes:.
One what? One person who doesn't agree with your opinion and has a damn good reason not to?
Did you even read your reply or were you just smashing your willy on the keyboard?
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Opinion's?
Opinion is...what?
Were you bored when you posted this thread?
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Remember kids, speed limits are the very MAXIMUM limit you should do not the speed you SHOULD do.
Limits are not averages.
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Sod all this re-test business and stick people on a track. If they are not capable of reaching a set time repeatably and without crashing then they just should not be allowed on the road full stop. People may mention logistics here but this is perfectly acheivable and would bring a lot of business to race circuits around the country and give employment to a lot of instructors. You may also say that track driving is completely different to road driving and yes, to an extent I would agree, however, it does ensure that you have good hand to eye co-ordination, stress management ability and spacial awareness in stressfull situations, something that just isnt tested at the moment and is very necessary when you are about to have an accident.
Im sick of all of these "safe" (read incapable of driving faster out of fear of losing control/getting pulled for speeding/lack of spacial awareness to take in what is occuring around them) drivers who feel it is fine to drive at 30 in 40 zones or think that the speed limits are gospel everywhere. Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons. This just leads to the inevitable trails of people following one twit (usually over 50) who insists that 30 is a fine speed for such a road or a tractor that just cant go faster and then ends in people taking ridiculous risks to overtake the lot of them in one go since everyone bunches up due to the low speed and no-one will overtake as they just dont have the bottle to do it safely any more or are scared of being arrested for speeding (and the suicide lanes have mostly all gone to help with this).
I used to drive quite fast... and even i see that everything you have written is dribble
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One what? One person who doesn't agree with your opinion and has a damn good reason not to?
People die every day from all sorts of things, donkey kicks, lightening strikes, OAP's mowing into them because they forgot to brake, that one random dickhead driving far too fast on a road he barely knows careening off the road and smashing into an inocent........ Unfortunately and understandably, random occurances tend to breed an irrational fear of such random occurances resulting in an overbearing response to someones opinion and an inevitable kneejerk response from a multitude of well meaning people who believe that the opinion given by the "offending" poster is the most hatefull response ever given because it doesnt sit well with their very pleasant sensibilities...... This is that one...... I have given my opinion on an internet forum, it clashed with an overbearing forum personality and now with everyone it would appear, I am now heinous and shall consider myself as the worst thing in the world. Have fun with it (you probably will), Im off to read other things :rolleyes:
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Sod all this re-test business and stick people on a track. If they are not capable of reaching a set time repeatably and without crashing then they just should not be allowed on the road full stop. People may mention logistics here but this is perfectly acheivable and would bring a lot of business to race circuits around the country and give employment to a lot of instructors. You may also say that track driving is completely different to road driving and yes, to an extent I would agree, however, it does ensure that you have good hand to eye co-ordination, stress management ability and spacial awareness in stressfull situations, something that just isnt tested at the moment and is very necessary when you are about to have an accident.
Im sick of all of these "safe" (read incapable of driving faster out of fear of losing control/getting pulled for speeding/lack of spacial awareness to take in what is occuring around them) drivers who feel it is fine to drive at 30 in 40 zones or think that the speed limits are gospel everywhere. Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons. This just leads to the inevitable trails of people following one twit (usually over 50) who insists that 30 is a fine speed for such a road or a tractor that just cant go faster and then ends in people taking ridiculous risks to overtake the lot of them in one go since everyone bunches up due to the low speed and no-one will overtake as they just dont have the bottle to do it safely any more or are scared of being arrested for speeding (and the suicide lanes have mostly all gone to help with this).
I used to drive quite fast... and even i see that everything you have written is dribble
i got to the part were he said stick people on a track and stoped reading...
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I don't think a re-test, or you lose your licence is a good idea, but some sort of medical and refresher course could be a consideration.
Im sick of all of these "safe" (read incapable of driving faster out of fear of losing control/getting pulled for speeding/lack of spacial awareness to take in what is occuring around them) drivers who feel it is fine to drive at 30 in 40 zones or think that the speed limits are gospel everywhere. Im also sick of the twits who live along fast roads who ask the council to lower the speed limit for supposed safety reasons. This just leads to the inevitable trails of people following one twit (usually over 50) who insists that 30 is a fine speed for such a road or a tractor that just cant go faster and then ends in people taking ridiculous risks to overtake the lot of them in one go since everyone bunches up due to the low speed and no-one will overtake.
I tow a caravan, so it's very often me that will be driving at 50mph in a 60 with a string of cars behind me. That's because I have to. It's the law. It's not me that's doing the holding up tho', it's the car who is following be far to closely to be able to see when it is safe to overtake, therefore making it more difficult for the cars behind him. Sometimes it will be appropriate for me to tow at 30mph in a 40. That's my call. As said before, the speed limit is a maximum, not a target.
Going back to my point about refresher courses, I think regular driver training would improve the driving standards of some, but not all, which can only be a good thing. Also, as for people getting wound up by the driving of others, just chill. Does it really matter? No.
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People die every day from all sorts of things, donkey kicks, lightening strikes, OAP's mowing into them because they forgot to brake, that one random dickhead driving far too fast on a road he barely knows careening off the road and smashing into an inocent........ Unfortunately and understandably, random occurances tend to breed an irrational fear of such random occurances resulting in an overbearing response to someones opinion and an inevitable kneejerk response from a multitude of well meaning people who believe that the opinion given by the "offending" poster is the most hatefull response ever given because it doesnt sit well with their very pleasant sensibilities...... This is that one...... I have given my opinion on an internet forum, it clashed with an overbearing forum personality and now with everyone it would appear, I am now heinous and shall consider myself as the worst thing in the world. Have fun with it (you probably will), Im off to read other things :rolleyes:
start by reading something that will help you break up your text a little.. we can then move on to all the b0ll0x you talk later :nerd:
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my dads 65, a taxi driver, does summit like 40k a year and has never had an accident where he is at fault.
saying that i have noticed his concentration slipping, little things, like looking at stereo longer than he usually would. but that could also be me finding faults
most people of age know that they shouldnt be driving, my lass's grandad is in his late 80s now and still drives, he seems capable but he drives slower, he admits his reactions arent as good but drives slower to compensate.
what about disabilitys? ive seen oaps that struggle to walk without aid and yet drive a car, surely that should be a point where there licence is removed.
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what about disabilitys? ive seen oaps that struggle to walk without aid and yet drive a car, surely that should be a point where there licence is removed.
My Neighbour(s) is registered disabled on both sides of me and both have extended lines outside my home that stops me parking outside my house. if you saw it you would be shocked how much extra room they apparently need. in my opinion if they can't carry out simple manoeuvres then they should not be driving.
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I deffinately think they should retake a test at some point. This should also apply to women, and be even more frequent! It's things like crossing lanes and not indicating that I find most common, also a combination of both in alot of instances. Have been almost wiped out by OAPs doing this in the past. I get the rage whenever I see it happen, and 99 times out of 100, it's an old person or a woman. This includes the wife, hence the reason she is not driving ATM as she had 3 accidents in her first 8 months of driving, so couldn't afford her renewal.
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Ok.. First of all, This was not meant to be "Let's all argue" thread/poll.
This was a simple question asking for personal opinion's on the matter in hand.
I did not intend for people to start pointless cheap shot's at one another. Some elderly people might be better driver's then other's but that doesn't change the fact that more than half of them cause a hazard to other road user's.
It's quite obvious that people have different view's on this matter and to be quite honest i cant be arsed to sit here and read through all of them. As i said before some older people cause hazard's and as a result police/insurance companies take the elder person's side regardless. 'There more mature and have better driving experience' So what.!! Still doesnt change the fact THEY ARE TERRIBLE DRIVER'S.
Some people need to get there idea's bucked up and stop having cheap shot's at other people comment's.!
Read the top of the page it clearly say's
Help and sarcasm since '02
Not cheap shot's and argument's since '02
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Read the top of the page it clearly say's
Help and sarcasm since '02
Not cheap shot's and argument's since '02
Maybe it should :huh:
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mk3owner :afro:
People say "the speed limit is a maximum not a target" then perhaps you would care to explain to me how I failed my test for not doing the speed limit, I was on the A1 doing 10mph under the speed limit in really heavy rain, I felt 70 was too fast as the windscreen wipers were on the fastest setting and couldn't keep up with the rain. failed for not going the speed limit, made no other mistakes just that and failed.
Or why I was pulled over by the police for only doing 50 on the A47 where it's 70, when asked why I was going so slow I said I had left work early and my boss was a few cars ahead doing 50 so if I overtook he'd have seen me (I had started work 3 hours early so I could leave early but my boss didn't believe in that, didn't matter what time I started I couldn't leave early) and the copper was thinking about giving me a ticket for dangerous driving. :shocked:
Also a driving test doesn't mean anything I failed 6 times in London (lets see how long it takes for someone to take the pi55 out of me for that) on stupid things like getting cut up by an OAP on a roundabout and because I didn't swerve out the way the examiner grabbed the wheel and pulled me left, didn't brake though, sent me up a curb and I nearly hit someone waiting to come on the roundabout, it's only because I put the brakes on I didn't hit it, had the examiner not done anything nothing would have happened as the examiner done it after I'd been cut up.
There is no such thing as a good driver, just bad, capable and experienced, I've only been driving three and a half years so I'm not experienced, but I'm not dangerous I've never crashed into someone and even though I might speed sometimes, I am not stupid with it, if I don't know the road I drive slow and if I'm holding people up I pull over and let them past, me failing 6 tests doesn't mean anything as I am a better driver than people I know who passed first time, and crashed within a week, in my lessons I was taught how to pass and told when I pass to forget what I had been taught and to drive sensibly.
what scares me is people that passed that long ago that they didn't have a theory test so don't know what most signs mean, a bloke I worked with was in his late 60s drove well but didn't know what give way lines were or what the minimum speed limit signs meant, the no motor vehicles signs where there is a car with a motorbike above it, he thought it meant that only cars and motorbikes were allowed, didn't know how to use bus lanes.
people can drive well at 20 and be sh!t at 50, or an accident can change the way people drive for the worse, a lot of old people are cr*p and shouldn't be on the road, but that goes for all ages, 17 to 90 there are loads of people who shouldn't be on the road.
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personaly i think many drivers could do with doing an IAM test...now i used to think i was a good driver, highly capable of showing people up on track days having being doing them for over 20 years in some seriously quick vehicles and bikes.
i was then talked into doing an IAM test.. as my other half drives with blue lights for a living..
i always thought i was very aware of my surroundings and my position...but this course tought me a good few things...and i get even cheaper insurance to boot.
give it a go...they arnt all stuffy old farts...
im not that old, but i do fart alot :grin:
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there are a lot of thingys on the road who cant actualy handel a car properly - FACT
there are some really stupid speed limutes on some roads - FACT
putting people on a track probaly not a bad idea TBH it may teach some of them how to contoll car if something unexpected happens rather than slamming on the brakes and screaming then promtly crashing into something that chould have been avoided with ease if they were thinking about driveing rater than panicing
IMO the roads are over singposted with useless infomation that no one really needs and just distracts you from driveing. then ther speed limutes that keep going 50, 40, 30 , 50 , 30 , 40 , national, 40, 30. it's like make your fuccking mind up and varible speed limutes are worse makes driveing more stressfull / tireing and thats a pain in the arse on a long trip
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How is it a pain in the arse? If everyone just flows, everyone gets there.
Where is the problem? (me getting old and responsible i suppose!)
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if you think the standard of driving here is poor, visit australia..the aussies cant drive for toffee..i visit family n freinds every other year and it never ceases to amaze...show them a roundabout and they are screwed..even my friend who is in wa police and a pom agrees.. :rolleyes:
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My take on it is this, there are good and bad in all ages, all personalities is all areas of the country. Day in day out I see people hogging the middle lane, or cutting across 2-3 lanes on a roundabout, I don't think they understand that you can actually go all the way around a round about if you miss your exit and try again..
I would say the bigger issue here is the way in which people are educated. Re-testing of people is not viable. It would cost too much and force people off the road which I don't think is right. A lot of OAP's are single and a car is their way of getting their shopping home, it gives them that bit of freedom they require to still act as a human in society.
My grandfather is very aware that he cannot react the way he used to, he is also aware of the volume of traffic on the road. His car is now used to take him to the local shops and to drop my grandmother to the hair-dressers. Thats it.. He will not venture into Swansea let alone on the motorway because he knows he is not up to it..
I think that police should be set target areas to work on, day in day out on the motorway I see some horrific stuff, to the point of people using hard shoulders and undertaking.. I think that in theory the motorway is the simplest method of driving, your in the inside lane, your check mirrors, signal, move out, overtake, mirrors, back in... All the traffic is going in the same direction and this method allows you to build up a picture of what is going on all around you, keeping you more aware of what is going on. I cannot understand on an empty road, in the middle of the night, why anyone would think the middle lane is the lane of options.. Even more so when you hit roads like the M42/A42 where they continue in the outside lane..
I think if basic motorway education was given then the whole traffic network would function far better as people would not be held up by those hogging middle and outside lanes, normally at slower that national speed limit...
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I agree on how useful the IAM is. When I did the course, it was only £60 for as many lessons as it took including your test too! It was a young driver initiative they were doing at the time. It taught me how to read the road better and be planning my drive as far ahead as possible, rather than just as far as the car in front. My Dad did the course a few years before me and he agrees it improves your driving. There are a few points to the course that I disagree with though.. (Such as always hugging the outside of a corner, for maximum visibility. Considering other motorists, this'll only result in you losing your wing mirror!)
I think at 65 a re-test would be a good idea, then every 5 years after that. It'd only be a very basic test, just a 10 minute drive about to check the driver isn't completely dangerous. I've noticed with my Dad that his reactions have slowed down a bit in the last few years (he's approaching 60). He's a fantastic driver, but I notice he hesitates for longer and takes more time to process what he's seeing (such as approaching a roundabout, etc.)
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lets be fair, some 17, 18 and 19 year olds are a LOT worse than old grandma and grandpa :grin: and what they do is delibrate,
try overtaking 3 cars just starting to queue at a red light and jumping said red light , overtaking someone in a 30 zone already doing 40, and not stopping at a zebra crossing.
same car - honda jazz , same driver - spotty youth. :rolleyes:
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solution?? make the driving test much harder.
case closed :cool:
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There a good drivers of all ages and there are bad drivers of all ages. Just be careful what you wish for as one day (hopefully) you will be that OAP yourself. One thing that has changed is the pace that we drive at, which can be intimidating for some older people. On top of that the aggression shown by people in their driving style has increased as well, to forcing their way through traffic, to going off on a radgie when someone makes a simple mistake. These are normally the people who will crow on all day about their driving skills. That behaviour is again intimidating for older people. My dad (75) has never been a great driver, but he is saying now that he doesn't like driving anymore because everyone drives with no margin for error and feels there is always someone trying to push him on all the time. Yes, you do slow down as you get older, but come one you need to cut some slack, you will get there some day also. We need to show a little more tolerance at time to some older drivers, however much of an annoying tw@t they are
As for track training, this is getting to be a badge of honour. My mate goes on all the time about what a great driver he is as he's "track trained" He's quite frankly shiite. On the road, he puts the fear of god in me as he enters blind corners far too fast, brakes at the last possible moment in every situation and fails to perceive imminent hazards. Roads are not tracks, they are far more dangerous and require the utmost respect. but I do think there is a case for simple retesting and hazard awareness tests, only for everyone, every 5 years or so
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my gran stopped driving at about 91 when her sight completely failed... up until then she was pottering about in her mini but wouldn't go further then she knew as she couldn't read the signposts!! :grin:*
* in reality this isn't funny.. we tried on numerous occasions to stop her.
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just had a thought though...
if you had ONLY 75+ year olds on the roads for a year
and the next year had ONLY -25 year olds on the road for the following year
hypothetically of course, it would be interesting to compare the statistics
which age group would have the most fatal accidents
which age group would have the most high speed crashes
which age group would drive down a dual carriageway the wrong way most
which age group would have the most car park scrapes
which age group would have the most drink drive incidents (interesting one that)
overall with which age group would the roads be safer?
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just had a thought though...
if you had ONLY 75+ year olds on the roads for a year
and the next year had ONLY -25 year olds on the road for the following year
hypothetically of course, it would be interesting to compare the statistics
which age group would have the most fatal accidents
which age group would have the most high speed crashes
which age group would drive down a dual carriageway the wrong way most
which age group would have the most car park scrapes
which age group would have the most drink drive incidents (interesting one that)
overall with which age group would the roads be safer?
Id love for that to happen.
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just had a thought though...
if you had ONLY 75+ year olds on the roads for a year
and the next year had ONLY -25 year olds on the road for the following year
hypothetically of course, it would be interesting to compare the statistics
which age group would have the most fatal accidents
which age group would have the most high speed crashes
which age group would drive down a dual carriageway the wrong way most
which age group would have the most car park scrapes
which age group would have the most drink drive incidents (interesting one that)
overall with which age group would the roads be safer?
You wouldn't need to do that, just look at the insurance statistics, and even though there are more young people that crash each year than old people there are a lot more younger drivers, old people have less crashes as there are less of them.
The percentage of 17/25 year olds that crash, hit a car in the carpark, reverse into a bollard when parking is lower than 65+ (at least this is what my landlord tells me who works in insurance dealing with claims)
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I actually think the 50+ are dangerous where I live they all own big cars and think they own the road!
Its like a 3/4 life crisis they go through where anyone under the age of 25 should be behind them or when they pull out on you its your fault for not seeing him pull out on you :evil:
Its more attitude towards me I find frustrating not the age!
I'm happy to drive exactly 29MPH because the old gal in front can only feel safe sticking to speed limits.
TBH my feelings change when I see who is driving for instance if an old person is driving and made a mistake should I honk my horn and shout abuse? I've seen this as counter productive as they get more scared.
Does it mean they should be on the road even now, proberly not!
I've seen much older drivers, drive better than 17yr olds even today.
My father has stopped driving, due to my bank telling to stop paying off his minor fracuses as he used to called them :lipsrsealed:
Funny thing about driving, you could be the best driver on the planet. But when you loose control, you loose control period big time! :rolleyes:
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As above, age doesn't make you a better or worse driver. Experience determines that. Round where I work, the majority of people over 60/65 are as fit as a fiddle. No health problems, they can control their vehicles really well.
I agree you have mid-life crises where 50 year olds drive large cars and who deem themselves to be "Kings of the Road". Really annoys me.
Completely agree about signs and it's not just OAPs. I've seen countless people drive through a 40mph sone at 40mph but when the sign becomes a NSL, they just seem to ignore it and drive at 40mph. It's me who gets the honks and flashes when I overtake safely. They then continue to do 40mph when the road turns into a 30mph zone. Far more dangerous IMO.
Track testing is a complete waste of time and irrelevant to most people. Completely different set of problems and expectations. A retest would be a good idea but would 10 mins be enough? Surely you'd want to test night time driving, rain, fog (stops those idiots putting on foglights when there's light mist)? What about a similator test? Theoretically cheaper and easier to run.
Also agree with stricter driving standards but this should be applied to all age groups, not just learner drivers.