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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 14:27

Title: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 14:27
I need to maintain a compression ratio of 8:1 and obviously not twit the piston crown on the valves. Would the ABF head still run on a k-jet system? If not I assume I would be better off changin to full abf megasquirt on the hydraulic clutch and corrado gearbox which aint happening.

Cheers in advance
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: tech1889 on 13 December 2011, 16:57
why not cable clutch and mk3 golf gearbox ?
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 17:07
why not cable clutch and mk3 golf gearbox ?

Because if I were going whole hog I would change to hydro. Anyhow, back to the question in hand  :smiley:
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: tech1889 on 13 December 2011, 18:10
i assume its opposite to this mate

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=143694.0

just use kr head gasket and timing belt ?
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 18:19
The problem with that is that it doesnt help with cr. I need to know what the std cr is when running a std KR block with an ABF head.
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: tech1889 on 13 December 2011, 18:24
The problem with that is that it doesnt help with cr. I need to know what the std cr is when running a std KR block with an ABF head.

ok sorry mate only trying to help  :smiley:
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 18:50
The problem with that is that it doesnt help with cr. I need to know what the std cr is when running a std KR block with an ABF head.

ok sorry mate only trying to help  :smiley:

No worries boss. Ideally I need somone who has done it. Apparently the ABF head has a smaller indent or whatever its called to the valves, so it gives a higher compression. But people have said that the higher compression is minimal, 0.5:1 or even 0.3:1. But then you have the choice between 1mm gaskets and 1.2 mm gaskets meaning that the increase in compression is lost. But then does a KR piston hit a ABF valve?

There is info here which is helpfull in general

http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml

but no ABF specs, but I have just seen that I may be able to change my rods for g60s but the piston dish is then different and pin is different.
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: DOA on 13 December 2011, 18:55
Whats wrong with just using a KR head? Its not like KR's cost a fortune nowadays. Club Gti suggests the head volumes are very simiar but of a different shape, check it out.
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 18:58
I am checking it out...

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-146656.html

 :laugh: try get any info from that, its a thread of people contradicting each other
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: DOA on 13 December 2011, 19:08
Fair point  :grin:. Unusual for RJ to be so confused lol. If you have both heads its easy to check these things of course...... What is wrong with using a KR head anyway?
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: danny_p on 13 December 2011, 20:14
you need a CR of 8:1   right, well std KR pistons gasket and head are going to give you 10:1

also are you on about early or late KR heads

the ABF head ain't much diffrent form a late KR head, ports better valve guides shorter,  more clearance for cams  but thats about it.

G60 pistons in a 16v would give you a CR 0f   0.f**k all :1   

1) 16v pistons are domed,   std 8v pistons are dished and give 8:1 when used with a 16v head    g60 pistons are inverted buckets and give 8:1 with an 8v head   and youd have to notch them to clear the intake valves anyway
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 21:12
you need a CR of 8:1   right, well std KR pistons gasket and head are going to give you 10:1

also are you on about early or late KR heads

the ABF head ain't much diffrent form a late KR head, ports better valve guides shorter,  more clearance for cams  but thats about it.

G60 pistons in a 16v would give you a CR 0f   0.f**k all :1   

1) 16v pistons are domed,   std 8v pistons are dished and give 8:1 when used with a 16v head    g60 pistons are inverted buckets and give 8:1 with an 8v head   and youd have to notch them to clear the intake valves anyway


At the moment I run bushed standard kr piston rods and standard everything else so have a cr of 8:1 to suit the turbo thus.. i need to maintain this CR.
 I'm merely asking about running an ABF head on a KR block, I'm not after any advantage or anything like that. Just if one came up cheap would my CR stay the same or merely differ to something like 8.5:1? I'm not sure which KR head I'm running, my car is an 89 if that helps?

I wasn't asking about running G60 pistons, just chasing figures around the page that I linked as an example. So could I use standard 16v rods and 8v pistons to achieve the 8:1? Not that that's really relevant to what I'm asking, just interested.

Original question revised, what is the compretion ratio of a ABF head on a KR block and will it work?
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: tomp on 13 December 2011, 21:30
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-CORRADO-16V-KR-CYLINDER-HEAD-RECONDITIONED-GOLF-GTI-/220754944148?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3366052094

Looks good to me....

Anyone know if it fits on the Golf? If so its a bargain Sam and the works already been done....
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: tomp on 13 December 2011, 21:33
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-Scirocco-Jetta-Corrado-MK2-1-8-16v-KR-GTi-Engine-Head-65K-027103373E-/160699260042?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item256a6c1c8a


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK1-MK2-MK3-1-8-16V-KR-RARE-BIG-PORT-HEAD-PERFORMANCE-/280790689652?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41606de774

This one might be good too...
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: tomp on 13 December 2011, 21:34
Complete Engine for £200

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KR-ENGINE-VW-GOLF-MK2-CORRADO-1-8-16V-KR-ENGINE-HEAD-BLOCK-/220882311849?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item336d9c9aa9
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: danny_p on 13 December 2011, 21:40
CR of ABF head on KR block will be near as dammit the same as KR head on KR block
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 22:04
CR of ABF head on KR block will be near as dammit the same as KR head on KR block

And the fitting is the same? i know the ABF has a slightly higher deg cam setup on it but also has a bigger valve interference (if im reading this right) especially on the intake ala..

2L 16V ABF cam specs:

Intake - 219deg @ 1mm, 10.8mm max
Exhaust - 220 deg @ 1mm, 10.8mm max

1.8L 16V KR cam specs:

Intake - 218deg @ 1mm, 9.6mm max
Exhaust - 226 deg @1mm, 10.2mm max


And the pistons in my block have a valve clearance indent on the front ala..

(http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/caistor_bmx/piston1.jpg)

rather than a flat crown. Stop me if I'm heading in the wrong direction here but I don't want it to smash the valves in when I first try starting her.

ps. ignore the shape of that piston haha
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: danny_p on 13 December 2011, 22:08
to lower the compression you pistons will have been bushed down. so more clearance

also all 16v pistons have clearanceing for the intake valves

you can put kr cams in an abf head if you wish
Title: Re: Running an ABF head on a KR block
Post by: Sam on 13 December 2011, 22:16
to lower the compression you pistons will have been bushed down. so more clearance

also all 16v pistons have clearanceing for the intake valves

you can put kr cams in an abf head if you wish

I would stick with the ABF cam as it offers a little more. I cant remeber off hand how large the bushings are on the con rods. So the ABF head fully lines up? Just a straight swap  :smiley: