GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => The garage => Topic started by: Dave_IOW on 28 November 2011, 20:00
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Setup will be..
AGU engine
KO4-001
VR6 MAF
Calibra yellow injectors
BAM pump
Devils Own stage 2 kit.
FMIC
All other 'stage 2' supporting mods.
Now i obviously want to have the mixture made up for when i have it mapped to get most potential benefit, so do i want 100% water or a meth & water mix? I believe part meth raises octane, therefore you can advance timing that little bit further.
Opinions please :smiley:
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I would like to know about this as well ive got the aquamist kit so will be in the same boat when I take it to get mapped.
Im sure I read somewhere Nick from Rtech saying that you can see very good results just running in on 100% water. So its a hell of a lot cheaper not having to run it with meth all the time. So I was going to get it mapped using just water as that what I will be running most of the time. Then can do a 50 50 mix every so often and if like you say it raises the octane it will still make a difference.
Could be wrong tho dont know alot about these kits.
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Known plenty of tuners to ditch devil kits due to reliability of the kits.
I terms of mixture, you would use both, water cools, meth will allow advancing, going 100% to one or the other won't benefit you, meth on its own will give the advance, but no cooling factor that the water would give, so the mixture option is where you need to go to achieve the desired benefit.
Also don't get meth mixed up with meth :kiss: :grin:
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I'm looking into water ink too, spoke to rtech today about it devil have probs with controller. Looking at aquamist kit.
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Hmm didnt nick run the devils kit ith 100% water on his car though with some pretty good results? :smiley:
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Hmm didnt nick run the devils kit ith 100% water on his car though with some pretty good results? :smiley:
Yeah thats what I thought cause as well as cooling it will make the air denser.
What is water ink?
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You can use one or the other, just a mixture will allow better results as it has the benefits of both solutions. Water is handy in controlling the EGT with a serious advance, especially if you have knock sensors disabled etc...
Hopefully R-tech will come along soon.
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nick is installing my snow performance kit on my mk5. So im hoping the results are good.. i will be running 60/40 or 50/50 :smiley:
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Are the AEM kits any good you know???
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MaXXeh, where you going to be buying your meth from?
Ebay? :lipsrsealed:
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Wow at 60p a litre from ebay dont need to worry about keeping costs down, 50/50 mix it is then!
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lol.. nick was getting me some from a place around the block from him
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Just purchased labonte motorsport kit from states comes with throttle housing spacer for mk4 to screw jet into, suppose to be brilliant kit they supply snow with there water inj components.
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depends on how its mapped.
100% water all is good if you run out, 100% meth and you can run into issues.
when i was playing with the ABF i ran between 50/50 water meth and 25/75 water meth but i was useing fuelinjectors to delive the meth contolled by the 2nd injector output on the megasquirt so the % meth was inportant to keep correct for the map that was on it at the time as it was taken into account on the fueling side of things. at times i had 100% meth in there and at WOT above 4 k rpm it was entirely running on the meth :evil: made it go some and ran very cool
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Interesting, i think im going to go 50/50 and have it mapped for that.
Meth itself seems pretty cheap?
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Devils own kit was what caused Nicks engine to go bang at the pod wasnt it? ;)
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Just purchased labonte motorsport kit from states comes with throttle housing spacer for mk4 to screw jet into, suppose to be brilliant kit they supply snow with there water inj components.
I see yu got it off a guy from vortex. Good luck with royal mail!! I bought some conrods from a guy from vortex, they took over 2 months to arrive they took 2 days to get to England then they lost for 2 months. Hope it goes better for you mate! :smiley:
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Devils own kit was what caused Nicks engine to go bang at the pod wasnt it? ;)
Hope i get better results then!
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whats this like? NOS? etc? :\
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Nah, it cools intake temperatures down. It like having a massive intercooler..
Methanol increases your octane like going from unleaded to super unleaded :smiley:
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ooooh i see!! worth it?
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Hopefully :smiley:
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i guess for big power!! but tbh, im happy with my 225bhp atm! there is soooo much plod around! any more poke ill be colecting point's!
so its on the hunt for lows, looks and rims! :lipsrsealed:
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Just purchased labonte motorsport kit from states comes with throttle housing spacer for mk4 to screw jet into, suppose to be brilliant kit they supply snow with there water inj components.
I see yu got it off a guy from vortex. Good luck with royal mail!! I bought some conrods from a guy from vortex, they took over 2 months to arrive they took 2 days to get to England then they lost for 2 months. Hope it goes better for you mate! :smiley:
Went back on deal bought new AEM progressive system instead with 1gal tank.
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i`m not going to bother going down this route as i see it as an unsafe method, if it runs out and youre running massive advance thien i think its melty melty time..
i`m seriously thinking of saving for a nitrous oxide kit though :evil:
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i`m not going to bother going down this route as i see it as an unsafe method, if it runs out and youre running massive advance thien i think its melty melty time..
i`m seriously thinking of saving for a nitrous oxide kit though :evil:
Golf has knock sensors, you can tune with meth with tolarance to the knock sensor, so once you run out of meth it will detect it. If you was tuning by ear by listening to detonation without the knock sensors in play then it becomes the scenario you are saying above.
I remember nick said the stock knocks sensors aren't great, so how much of an advance you will get with the knock sensors on, only he will tell you from all the R&D he has done on his own car and other custom maps, so send a phone call his way.
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Yeah i wont be going crazy with it, just a bit more power but mainly its for safety.
Not sure whether to keep jet there or further back up the system like tapping the jet into the silicone intercooler - TB hose.
Arrived today;
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/373817_10151026821400361_567250360_21731369_1803565525_n.jpg)
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i`m not going to bother going down this route as i see it as an unsafe method, if it runs out and youre running massive advance thien i think its melty melty time..
i`m seriously thinking of saving for a nitrous oxide kit though :evil:
size your tanks right and it dosent run out, it comes into it's own with standallone managment tho where you have extra programable inputs and outputs.
with the s3 it's running port methanol injection and a water misters in the plenum.
i have the tank level sensor connected up to the ecu so it dosent go into mental mode without sufficent juice, water consumption works out to be about 25% that of fuel so now combined water and window wash tank is 15ltrs, meth tanks are 15ltrs each both under car as i don't liek the idea of neat meth in the passinger cell.
you'd never guess i make 15ltr stainless tanks at work occasionaly :smiley:
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Yeah i wont be going crazy with it, just a bit more power but mainly its for safety.
Not sure whether to keep jet there or further back up the system like tapping the jet into the silicone intercooler - TB hose.
Arrived today;
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/373817_10151026821400361_567250360_21731369_1803565525_n.jpg)
Fitting mine soon going to put my jets one in intake hose, poss one spraying cooler itself. Not sure where to fit bottle, if under bonnet and using only water in this weather freeze so boot's looking more likely. Not sure is will freeze with 25% meth/75% water, not sure on freezing point of meth will have to investigate.
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Will look forward to see what happens with you install then :smiley:
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Yeah i wont be going crazy with it, just a bit more power but mainly its for safety.
Not sure whether to keep jet there or further back up the system like tapping the jet into the silicone intercooler - TB hose.
Arrived today;
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/373817_10151026821400361_567250360_21731369_1803565525_n.jpg)
Fitting mine soon going to put my jets one in intake hose, poss one spraying cooler itself. Not sure where to fit bottle, if under bonnet and using only water in this weather freeze so boot's looking more likely. Not sure is will freeze with 25% meth/75% water, not sure on freezing point of meth will have to investigate.
They put methanol in antifreeze to lower its freezing point so it shouldnt freeze with the mix.
Mine fitted using the washer bottle for now will see how quickly it goes through that and see if I have to get a bigger bottle.
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n521/jonrandom/IMAG0205.jpg)
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n521/jonrandom/IMAG0204.jpg)
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Do you think it would be an advantage to tap into a boost pipe after IC then for meth?
Unsure if the manifold i have got will distribute it evenly enough?
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Do you think it would be an advantage to tap into a boost pipe after IC then for meth?
Unsure if the manifold i have got will distribute it evenly enough?
Where you tapping it to now dave?
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Look in the pic, its in manifold atm..
Thinking of going when jon has.
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Have a read think you will find it interesting and it will help decide where to put the squirter in :wink:
https://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/content/20-where-to-locate-your-alcohol-water-injection-nozzle
Going by that guide, I'd place it where jon has, since we have a IAT temp sensor after the TB in the AGU, plus it distributes it better. I can see it being a problem only if the DV has been relocated via a kit such as with a forge kit or similar as surely when the DV opens the mixture will circulate to pre-turbo.
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Yeah i have a DV relocation kit, maybe put it after the 007p or take that out and put it back to where it was originally.
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Yeah i have a DV relocation kit, maybe put it after the 007p or take that out and put it back to where it was originally.
I'm in same boat, the after DV seems easiest for me, but I dunno, ring a tuner or maybe a helpful member could help? Surely when it dumps and it re-circle's through the enrichment won't be huge in terms of methanol/water, but I'm no expert :sad:
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I put it there cause got told its has more time to mix properly with the air and that made sense to me. I dont have a cold side dv tho, surely it wont be good for the turbo or dv to have that mix going through them, but then saying that if it doesnt damage anything it would help to cool the turbo down so that would be a good thing. Not sure really.
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I put it there cause got told its has more time to mix properly with the air and that made sense to me. I dont have a cold side dv tho, surely it wont be good for the turbo or dv to have that mix going through them, but then saying that if it doesnt damage anything it would help to cool the turbo down so that would be a good thing. Not sure really.
Indeed, its more the MAF sensor im worried about though :undecided:
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I fitted it there Dave because that were nick got his he got his nos next to it to. Going by devils guide intake seems the best location for cooling which is what nick is using his for as he only runs his on water
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I fitted it there Dave because that were nick got his he got his nos next to it to. Going by devils guide intake seems the best location for cooling which is what nick is using his for as he only runs his on water
No probs bud, horses for courses pal :afro:
Im neither knocking it or praising it, just need to decide whats best for me :smiley:
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yeah its no problem mate i just went with what nick said he said to fit it there
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The only thing i can see against it is that it doesnt look like it will inject equally into all cylinders..
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youd be suprised how turbulance in the airflow will smash the liquid you inject about and spread it allover the place
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youd be suprised how turbulance in the airflow will smash the liquid you inject about and spread it allover the place
You think judging by the image of said manifold, that it would be an equal(-ish) concentration?
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With how fine it mists I wouldnt of thought it would be an issue
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Only time rally seen valve in manifold if has 4 valves for each cyl.
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i think it's be fine.
air in intake systems goes pritty damb fast and it should be a fine mist so it's going to get dragged round where it needs to go.
looked into something simlar at work breifly and we ended up makeing a transparent replica manifodl out of resin and useign a red dye and some fast cameras
if you have a continus flow though each runner you do get unequal disttrobution if you have a pulseing flow it all evens out enough.
if it was a motorsport engine things would be done diffrently but on a modifyed fast road engine it's fine imo
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Thanks :afro: