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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: andykram on 21 November 2011, 06:05

Title: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 21 November 2011, 06:05
Well, the 8v below has served me well but I've found a 16v which I want to buy. Before I take the plunge, other than all the normal Mk2 checks that I already know about (bodywork and so on) is there anything unique to the 16v that I should be aware of and looking out for before I hand my cash over?
It's a big bumper J plate with just under 120000 miles.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: Sam on 21 November 2011, 08:34
The bay should look like this

(http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/volkswagen/636218.jpg)

and not like this

(http://www.freewebs.com/zendergolf/Golf%20pic's%20011.jpg)

On a more serious note, just make sure that you view the engine starting from cold - properly cold not 'oh I took her on a run for you this morning mate just to make sure she was alright' cold. There isnt anything I can think of that is specific to the valver engine, just the usual 'old engine' checks ie is it spewing black/white smoke and is it covered in oil.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: MBChB on 21 November 2011, 08:59
Surprised no one has mentioned less torque as something you should be expecting yet  :tongue:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: mk2bal on 21 November 2011, 14:09
No-ones going to say that are they, as it would be a lie. Check it has dohc 16v written on the fanimold, and if you spot an 8v make sure it ruins it, then you know all is good and as should be

Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: MBChB on 21 November 2011, 14:55
No-ones going to say that are they, as it would be a lie. Check it has dohc 16v written on the fanimold, and if you spot an 8v make sure it ruins it, then you know all is good and as should be



Flying the flag for valvers then?
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 21 November 2011, 15:02
Surprised no one has mentioned less torque as something you should be expecting yet  :tongue:

Shhh now, or I'll bring out the graph.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 21 November 2011, 15:04
Check all the joints on the air intake pipes from the filter onwards.  Check for leaks and that the joins are tight and not deformed in any way by Garth tight jubilee clips.



Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: Sam on 21 November 2011, 15:14
Also check all K-jet pipes for fraying and check the injectors arent dribbling any fuel. Non of this is a serious problem but it will help you haggle  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: Wayne on 21 November 2011, 15:28
Make sure the cam chain is quite and does not rattle.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: mk2bal on 21 November 2011, 15:39
I just love a bit of 8v vs 16v banter on a monday afternoon that's all. But yeah abf mk2 is top banana.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: MBChB on 21 November 2011, 15:53
I just love a bit of 8v vs 16v banter on a monday afternoon that's all. But yeah abf mk2 is top banana.

I won't argue with the 16v appreciation going on here!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 21 November 2011, 16:41
Do what I didnt do, look under the car for a big fat hole in it that'll make the car worthless ! :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 21 November 2011, 16:58
The body work is fantastic to be honest but I know about all the common Mk2 weaknesses/problems anyway. And also about all the usual checks. At least from your responses it doesn't like there's any specific inherent weaknesses.
Having said that, I do recall vaguely having read at some point that valvers tend to need a top end rebuild or something around the 150 000 mile mark? A way off in this car's case but knowledge is always a good thing.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: Sam on 21 November 2011, 17:06
The body work is fantastic to be honest but I know about all the common Mk2 weaknesses/problems anyway. And also about all the usual checks. At least from your responses it doesn't like there's any specific inherent weaknesses.
Having said that, I do recall vaguely having read at some point that valvers tend to need a top end rebuild or something around the 150 000 mile mark? A way off in this car's case but knowledge is always a good thing.

I wouldnt worry about that buddy, top end re-build is a diy job so long as you purchase the right tools and do your research. Simple bench strip and take yo time. I did non of this and my car blew up, im sure the same wont happen to you hahah  :evil:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: Thom89 on 21 November 2011, 17:36
A valver should have a piece of red carpet leading up to the drivers door, the 8v does not...

Thom
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 21 November 2011, 19:40
Well I'm going to look at it and hopefully do the deal on Saturday morning so I'd better get some red carpet ordered then!!!!!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: beechymonza on 21 November 2011, 20:10
Whats this piece of red carpet, I havnt seen this on mine ???
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: bodga on 21 November 2011, 21:39
Make sure the cam chain is quite and does not rattle.

Not a bad job to do though so if it is rattling, use as a haggling tool :grin:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: VW BUSH on 21 November 2011, 23:56
Whats this piece of red carpet, I havnt seen this on mine ???

 :grin:

Smoke and noisey tappets from cold or when very hot, spot any of these and haggle away.

Top end build is a new headgasket and skim if you do it properly, new valves and seals and guides, dont skimp on guides or valves as just seals will blow through quickly, check tappets for wear and replace if required, new chain cambelt and tensioner, new oil and coolant.
Manifold gaskets in and out, Rocker cover gasket, injector seals, budget for some new studs in the head, head bolts, silicon sealant. with reasonable luck this should cover you to rebuild the head. Add some set up time to get it all running right Kjet/digi etc etc.
Not killer hard to do just take your time and dont skimp.
All the valver heads ive been involved with were made worse by a worn oil pump and resulting low oil pressure, if this is the case it is prudent to check for wear in the bores as I have found to my cost :lipsrsealed:

Haggle as ABF's are cheap if you cant be bothered with a re build and a few days in the shed



Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: X4MGS on 22 November 2011, 16:48
A valver should have a piece of red carpet leading up to the drivers door, the 8v does not...

Thom

That cos most valvers break down - so you can lay a carpet extension from your front door to the shed thats on the drive...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 :tongue:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 22 November 2011, 19:00
You're all beginning to worry me now. My 8v has been totally reliable and now it seems as if I'm about to jump ship into an unreliable dog!!!!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: X4MGS on 22 November 2011, 19:18
You're all beginning to worry me now. My 8v has been totally reliable and now it seems as if I'm about to jump ship into an unreliable dog!!!!

Think most of it is just banter....

A good 16V can be just as reliable as an 8V - is just getting one that is properly set up & sorted & keeping it that way!!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 22 November 2011, 19:28
Everyone one knows the 8V is the poor mans 16V's :lipsrsealed: LOL Okay the Rallye was the pinical of the 8V, but the 16v limited should have gone into the Rallye! :grin:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 22 November 2011, 21:00
My guess at the reason 16v's can be little less reliable is that you CAN  drive them fast so people do! ie 6500rpm... 8v's doddle around at just above idle  :tongue:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 22 November 2011, 21:55
My guess at the reason 16v's can be little less reliable is that you CAN  drive them fast so people do! ie 6500rpm... 8v's doddle around at just above idle  :tongue:

Or just lazyness in maintaning them!
The only thing I hate about 16Vers is that it relies on so many vacum and breather pipes, but if it goes down its usually an easy fix than a ECU issue on the Digipants.
The only win for 8vers are the idle fuel control its bang on and saves big time on money compared to a 16ver.
The Kjet was a good design in the day the more air to fuel you feed it, the faster it went! :evil:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: Reasty on 24 November 2011, 20:14
My guess at the reason 16v's can be little less reliable is that you CAN  drive them fast so people do! ie 6500rpm... 8v's doddle around at just above idle  :tongue:

Or just lazyness in maintaning them!
The only thing I hate about 16Vers is that it relies on so many vacum and breather pipes, but if it goes down its usually an easy fix than a ECU issue on the Digipants.
The only win for 8vers are the idle fuel control its bang on and saves big time on money compared to a 16ver.
The Kjet was a good design in the day the more air to fuel you feed it, the faster it went! :evil:

Jay has hit the nail on the head here,if you look after a valver and maintain it as it should be maintained then it will be pretty much trouble free,i always pre empt stuff on mine and replace it with new (genuine where possible) before it fails,all be it mine is a second car for the summer months but I've had her for coming up 9 years now and I'll hopefully have her for 9 more,you will be amazed at the cars old and new that a 16ver will either have for breakfast or give a run for there money,a few choice mods (a four branch being one) and you have a rocket ship with character thats guaranteed to make you smile,if you have found a good one and you plan to properly look after it then you will not be disapointed  :cool: AMEN!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 26 November 2011, 19:29
Well I took the plunge and am now the proud owner of an oak green valver (so need to change my signature). Driving it home it seemed all is well. Bodywork is amazing and it just seems like a new car compared to the 8v, and that was good. Significantly quicker but, cos it's been lowered, significantly stiffer. To the point where I might one day put it back to original springs. But on bodywork alone it's an absolute winner.

I'll post pictures when I get round to it
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: MBChB on 26 November 2011, 19:35
Nice one!

Where in Leeds are you? Might see you in my black 5dr valver round town one of these days.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: kahunajb on 26 November 2011, 20:44
Get the pictures up.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 27 November 2011, 14:55
Here are some pics - hope it stands up to scrutiny

(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040786.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040785.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040784.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040783.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040782.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040781.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040780.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040779.jpg)
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/andykram/P1040778.jpg)
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: X4MGS on 27 November 2011, 15:09
Very Tidy Looking Motor.... IMO - Just need to change the front indicators to clear OEM ones and put in a golfball gear knob and shes back to OEM...
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 15:19
Agreed a keeper someone must have regretted selling that  :cool:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 27 November 2011, 15:45
That's a keeper. Very nice.

Paintwork looks in very good shape.

Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 27 November 2011, 16:16
Yeah I wanted an original one so wasn't initially keen on the fact it's been lowered. The Clifford alarm is a pain in the arse too. But as I said before, the bodywork was so good I couldn't really ignore it as I can get those issues (as well as the gear knob and what have you) changed. If you turned it on its roof you could eat your dinner off the underside it's that clean. And once I've valeted the interior it'll be like new. No wear on the usual bolsters on the driver's seat, for example.
So the plan is to do some shows and see how it does as a "best daily driver". It won't win but it might get an occasional place.

And, yes, I will be keeping this one.


Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 17:00
Treat her to some KW V2's coilovers, sort the ride height out and it will corner like a dream!  :cool:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 27 November 2011, 18:21
Wish my oak 16v was like that :( I bought a duff
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 27 November 2011, 18:25
You never know it might turn out to be a duff. I've only had it a day!!!

Just out of curiosity, how much am I looking at to put on a decent set of coilovers? Or just to put it back to standard?
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 18:33
You never know it might turn out to be a duff. I've only had it a day!!!

Just out of curiosity, how much am I looking at to put on a decent set of coilovers? Or just to put it back to standard?
TRUE!  :lipsrsealed:

Well you are looking about 1K, but trust me it transforms the whole cars ride it was the best money I spent on the car.
The 16vers are quite heavy and the ones with stock suspension roll under heavy plant, it does feel skittish to me. 
I'm only suggesting you buy her some decent coilies because its a keeper so in theory you get that money back if you wanted to sell them on?
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 27 November 2011, 18:37
If the bodys fine it can only be the engine which is cheap as chips to change if you can do it yourself lol. I'm just lucky my dads mates the manager or owner of a body shop! My cross member I put through with my hands lol my boot has got a rust hole in it, one of sills has gone, jack went through the floor haha and just bits and bobs else where... Shouldn't laugh really  :lipsrsealed: I doubt yours will be as much as a duff as mine lol!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 18:38
I painfully remember  :grin: :laugh: :lipsrsealed: :wink:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 27 November 2011, 18:41
haha, if I could just turn back time. Too top it off I've had to take out a perfectly good 9A to just put back in a an abf, has got ms2 with it so is better lol

Why did some one recommended  me megasquirt!!! Could of drove it 5 mins to jkm and get the wur mod and job done! 1 year later I'm basically starting over  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 18:46
A bad tradesman always blames his tools  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :tongue:
I'll sell you my atlas grey  :wink:
You will only give it me back once you broken it  :grin:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 27 November 2011, 19:01
haha no blaming the person who sold me this computer to get on here and get told of about megasquirt!

It'll be on the road soon  :cool:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 19:06
It wasn't me? I'm more Emerald kind of chap   :smug:
Mines waiting for cash for respray then its all done near enough, wish I knew a sprayer on here to give me a hand for once!
 :cry:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: emery1990 on 27 November 2011, 19:13
lol Nah wasn't you, I dont mind tbh, saved me this year with paying 1500 insurance then tax and fuel anyway ! Thats how I look at it !

Yer they're the best people to know really as cost so much aye!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 27 November 2011, 19:18
1k? Well, at the moment, the ride's so hard I'm actively trying to avoid pot holes in case I do my back in. So I suppose in that context it's cheap compared to seeing a chiropractor!!!!
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: clipperjay on 27 November 2011, 19:51
Shop around and see what prices are like, but every time someone sat in my Rallye they were expecting rock hard back breaking, but the dampers are spot on at speed you don't worry about pot holes or drains or even your back! :wink:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 27 November 2011, 20:20
Will do. I could have some from Santa!!!!!

I've spotted my first problem though. I reckon it could do with a nice new idle stabilisation valve as it roams a bit. Nothing dramatic but if I stick a new one of them on, drop the oil and stick some new sparks in it's a relatively cheap way of starting to look after it.
Can anyone confirm the 16v ISV part number is 034133455? I'd be grateful as I could just order one without having to faff around taking the old one off to check the part number.

I've found one at the air flow meter company who sell on ebay at the following link.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250540331036?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_9550wt_1163
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 21 December 2011, 21:20
Well I've had the Valver 3 and a half weeks now and done little bits to it. Cleaned the ISV which has calmed the wandering revs down quite a bit so no need for a new one. New golfball gear knob. New rear OEM badge (although I can't get the other one off for love nor money). Otherwise, I'm very pleased with it. No obvious issue have arisen and I feel as though I've got a good 'un.
I've obviously been researching the coilovers though as they definitely need doing. It's far too hard although I must say it goes round corners at very silly speeds!!! And the headlining will need doing at some point as that's not perfect. Good but not perfect so it'll annoy me until I get it done.....

I loved my old 8v but this 16v is just the dog's conkers. It might not be as quick as the Mk6 in a straight line but I bet it'd do it in the corners and that's not bad i my book for a 20 year old car.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: walchy01 on 27 December 2011, 09:35
That looks like one nice motor, top buy mate :grin: :grin: :grin:
All this 8v vs 16v stuff i take no notice of, i have my first 16v now (after owning plenty of 8v previously in the last 15 years)
that i have owned for 2 years and not had one problem,spent plenty getting her right but  as said in other replies its all about how you look after them and keep your eyes peeled for things starting to go wrong and correcting with Original parts if still available before it breaks...
On the realiability discussion there is nothing in it, enjoy the car pal, sure you will.
All the Best.. :wink:
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 29 December 2011, 23:49
Cheers Walchy. I've seen yours on the "pics" section and that's a beauty too.

Went to see a local dealer today about a new alarm and the guy nearly ran out of the shop to look at the car. He was a bit too keen for my liking (I just imaging him taking it off for a spin whilst he's got it to do an alarm) so it's off to Source in Sheffield tomorrow to see what they can do. They're not necessarily the cheapest but I've used them before and would trust them to do a top job.
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: walchy01 on 30 December 2011, 15:32
Hi mate

A couple of good electrical/alarm shops in sunny Sheff.

http://www.technicar.ltd.uk/ here is one, not cheap but do a good job..

or N Graysons at 2,Ulverston Road, Woodseats, Sheffield,S8 0NY.01142 589225

Hope you get one sorted, one of my next few jobs TBH...let me know what you have fitted..

Thanks
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: X4MGS on 30 December 2011, 15:50
Hi mate

A couple of good electrical/alarm shops in sunny Sheff.

http://www.technicar.ltd.uk/ here is one, not cheap but do a good job..

or N Graysons at 2,Ulverston Road, Woodseats, Sheffield,S8 0NY.01142 589225

Hope you get one sorted, one of my next few jobs TBH...let me know what you have fitted..

Thanks

I've also used Technicar - they fitted an alarm to my S2 when I bought - as said not cheap but very good...
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: andykram on 30 December 2011, 17:54
I was looking at a Clifford 650 which pretty much replaces the Clifford Concept 50 that's already on the car. The Concept 50 was nearly £600 fitted in its day (1996 mine was fitted) but one of the remotes has now broken, you can't get replacements and it is a bit temperamental to say the least. So as the car is a keeper I thought I'd treat it to a brand new alarm.
Source will fit the Clifford for £399 which seems to tally pretty much with other places I can see on the internet. Plus, they'll be doing the audio upgrade on the car as and when I can afford it so I'm happy to pay that as I know they'll do a good job.

Anyone got experience of these 650s?
Title: Re: Buying a 16v - what to look for over an 8v
Post by: mk2bal on 30 December 2011, 23:35
Buy a toad ai606 (better alarm) for £100 off ebay and save 300 by fitting it yourself easily in a day. You'll learn a bit whilst you do it, and can be sure of the quality of the install. I'd challenge any alarm fitter to do a tidier job on a mk2, I've only ever seen gash installs, but you'd never know unless you remove trim etc.