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General => General discussion => Topic started by: danny_p on 18 November 2011, 00:31

Title: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: danny_p on 18 November 2011, 00:31
just wonderign what peoples thoughts are on how much power a mk2 actualy needs to be good fun as say daily driver or track toy ?

my thoughts are around 150 - 170  bhp for an   N/A road car  daily / toy
170 - 200 for an   NA track car     undecided on boosted track mk2's
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: herr schimdt on 18 November 2011, 08:53
mine has about 150bhp and is fun but could be more fun with 250bhp as the 0-60 is about 7.5 secs and i would like it to be about 5secs
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: rob.043 on 18 November 2011, 09:05
i very much enjoy the circa 120bhp in my back road basing 8v. its grunty, sounds quick, and I can drive it hard without going too fast!

Maybe 150bhp or so would be nice, at what point does traction/ torque steer become an issue in the wet etc?
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 18 November 2011, 09:31
just wonderign what peoples thoughts are on how much power a mk2 actualy needs to be good fun as say daily driver or track toy ?

my thoughts are around 150 - 170  bhp for an   N/A road car  daily / toy
170 - 200 for an   NA track car     undecided on boosted track mk2's

Nail on the head.

My Mk1 when healthy was peaking around the 130's and for day to day fun it felt pretty much spot on.. 150-170 would be sweet in a MK1 and 2 IMO.  Modern, heavier cars with 170 can be fun so anything around this in a MK2 is more than ample.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Agreeable Slick on 18 November 2011, 10:26
Anything above 200 and it torque steers like a b!tch, frankly that's true of most FWD cars unless they are equipped with electronically controlled TCS and an LSD.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Sam on 18 November 2011, 11:04
Mine runs/did run (engine is fooked) at 240bhp with the original 16v(t  :drool: ) engine in and I wouldn't have wanted to take her any further to be honest. Nice and quick, fun in the twisties but you have to really keep her over 3k the whole time overwise you cannie pull out.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: herr schimdt on 18 November 2011, 11:35
i get quite a bit of torque stear on mine 150 brake 8v 2.0 but still want more felt real quick when i got it but now it seems normal
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Khare on 18 November 2011, 11:36
Nicer to drive an under powered car on the limit than a high powered car carefully. I reckon 200hp would be fun in my Mk3.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: The Doc on 18 November 2011, 11:38
175 Bhp would be nice - NA though  :wink:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 18 November 2011, 11:51
i get quite a bit of torque stear on mine 150 brake 8v 2.0 but still want more felt real quick when i got it but now it seems normal

Same with most cars, once you get used to something you want more....  
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: delirical on 18 November 2011, 12:43
I have bang on 180 in mine and you dont need any more than that.
Sounds great and pulls well. :smiley:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Wayne on 18 November 2011, 13:29
150/160 bhp is enough for a mk2.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: X01X on 18 November 2011, 19:31
MY mk3 is standard, apart from the backbox which does Feck all but look nice and give some noise when i boot it. 150bhp is nice in a mk3, don't think it really needs more than that but it also depends how you through it about. Every now and again i drive like i'm on mario kart and the mk3 is a lot of fun  :evil:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: weazgti on 18 November 2011, 19:56
I thought people would say a mk2 needs more than 150 to be honest.
Got an abf to go in mine which obviously is gonna feel great compared to the ruined 8v which is in it but im trying not to get my hopes up expecting it to be a proper quick car in case its not what i was expecting. Dont get me wrong im a firm believer in brakehorsepower being pub banter and all that but i ve never driven something old and lighter than modern cars with that sort of bhp.My wife has a modern small car with that power (I wont say what because people slate it and make out im full of sh*t) and i would be more than happy if it went like hers.
Closest would be a kr 16v i owned when i was 20 which i loved and miss to this day and thought was fast at the time although chances of it making anywhere near its factory power were slim i know now.
The comments on this thread bout 150 being enough is making me think my old kr was making f**k all power in reality and i should be expecting my abf mk2 to fly.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: clipperjay on 18 November 2011, 20:49
Not enough until the drive shafts shats itself  :shocked:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: F17BAD on 19 November 2011, 11:34
200 BHP

ABF just is not enough IMO
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 19 November 2011, 12:56
Depends whether it's 4WD, of course.

A Syncro would cheerfully suck up 300bhp.

The amount a 2WD Golf2 could deliver effectively would largely depend upon how well set up the chassis is.

With a well set up chassis you will be able to put down more power, especially with an LSD.

200bhp from an ABF motor on ITBs would be plenty and a lot of fun.

More than all this, it depends how large the imaginary cock is that you want to wave around.  :grin:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: clipperjay on 19 November 2011, 16:54
Depends whether it's 4WD, of course.

A Syncro would cheerfully suck up 300bhp.

The amount a 2WD Golf2 could deliver effectively would largely depend upon how well set up the chassis is.

With a well set up chassis you will be able to put down more power, especially with an LSD.

200bhp from an ABF motor on ITBs would be plenty and a lot of fun.

More than all this, it depends how large the imaginary cock is that you want to wave around.  :grin:

Rallye could only handle not more than 250BHP until the rear diff would grenade itself, unless you have the old cast iron diff instead of an ally one! Which was rare!

Everyone says about power and DannyP you know better its not about power, but whats sticking on the tarmac not lost in smoke and tyres!
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Hurdy on 19 November 2011, 17:13
How much does the MK2 GTI weigh? about 950-1000kg?

200bhp would definitely be enough for FWD. Manufacturers nowardays still tend to keep modern FWD cars under 200bhp/ton.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: danny_p on 20 November 2011, 01:42
it's all about getting the power down,  haveing all the power and not been abel to put it down would be like haveing a massive cock that you can't get up.
 
if the syncro drivetrain would handel 300bhp and been driven how i would drive it, i'd have 300 bhp syncro but i don't really feel like destruction testing my stash of spares just yet, i was actualy thinking about fwd cars when asking the question.

driveing big power FWD cars with uneven driveshaft lenghts and open diffs just pisses me off to frustrating  they gain vectra like handeling tendancys
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: clipperjay on 20 November 2011, 09:41
By the way are people stating BHP at flywheel or at the wheels because a Rallye or Syncro can loose upto 25% through friction from the drive shafts and rear diff box its gotta send power back along very heavy thick drive shafts to get to the wheels  :wink:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 20 November 2011, 10:08
unless you can spin the wheels in 5th you don't have enough power   :evil:
if it torque steers/understeers back off the accelerator, simples

there's 2wd track golfs pushing 400bhp out there that do fine at annihilating supercars  :wink:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 20 November 2011, 11:33
unless you can spin the wheels in 5th you don't have enough power   :evil:
if it torque steers/understeers back off the accelerator, simples

there's 2wd track golfs pushing 400bhp out there that do fine at annihilating supercars  :wink:

This threads been going a couple of days now, I've changed my mind, 400bhp is about right for a mk2 and 4wd is preferable.   :evil:  :grin:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Sam on 20 November 2011, 11:56
Always quote BHP at fly, there was a calculator online somwhere. My mk2 has 240bhp at fly and 199 on the road
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: lemski on 21 November 2011, 00:06
200bhp mk2 would do. 350bhp mk2 would be too much as a daily i feel. track toy would be fun though
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: danny_p on 21 November 2011, 00:16
iirc  nige is running 149 bhp ATW   and can do the ring in 8.21    so thats a good marker   till you can do say 8.30 or at least a sub 9 with 150 bhp ATW / 175 ATF  you don't need more power
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: emery1990 on 21 November 2011, 16:55
Before  my car got dumbed down must of been around 150? (a 9A kr head k-jet) That felt fast for me not driving anything over 180bhp and that was a lard ass a3 quattro! Used to love it 2nd accelrating out a conrer wheels spinning  :evil: So thinking my abf with ms is going to be plenty with hopefully more torque and 20 odd bhp more  :cool: But really it's the torque that makes the need for an lsd and the drive-ability isnt it
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: danny_p on 22 November 2011, 00:44
torque and weight transfer,

when your cornering load is transferd to the outside wheel so the inside wheel will spin much more easly  an LSD allows you to send torque to the outside wheel and put more power down sooner. so can make quite a large differance in lap times even on relativly low powerd cars.

on the road they make the car much better mannerd and responsive to your inputs as well as helping you put more power down more power you have the more noticable there effect
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: emery1990 on 22 November 2011, 17:29
Ahh right, I'll have a read about how they fit and go on, taking my engine out so may be easier with it out? Sound good
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: danny_p on 22 November 2011, 21:22
take gearbox out,  undo bolts  tap it with a hammer  to wake up the dragons inside then open gearbox,  on opening the gearbox the dragons will be set free at this point they may take the contents of your wallet 
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: emery1990 on 22 November 2011, 21:34
Yer had a look,  :sick:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: paul69 on 22 November 2011, 23:58
So how much bhp does an Abf give a digi Mk2 Gti?
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: apie2004 on 23 November 2011, 09:13
So how much bhp does an Abf give a digi Mk2 Gti?

About the same as a mk3 with an ABF or at a push a Seat Ibiza with an ABF
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: paul69 on 23 November 2011, 09:39
Which is? :laugh:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: apie2004 on 23 November 2011, 11:39
150 bhp
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Organisys on 23 November 2011, 12:49
Not read all the thread...but.

ALLLL depends on your chassis setup doesn't it ! and if you have a LSD.

for a road car, max 200 if setup well.

anything above 200 and for track use imho you need an LSD and ideally also someone who properly understands chassis setup. (ARBs, spring rates, roll height, corner weighting etc).

 :smiley:
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: Organisys on 23 November 2011, 12:55
150 bhp

Or up to around 170 with some reasonably affordable mods.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: DOA on 23 November 2011, 18:26
More!  :grin:

Seriously though, seam welded and with a cage put in they could take an easy NA or supercharged 250BHP at the flywheel with a decent gearbox and diff, brakes, suspension and on the right tyres. A turbo would make life a lot more hassle and would ruin the power delivery that you would need to use the traction at its best for longest. It would also make a massive difference changing the gearing in such a car, gear it to the moon and 250BHP isnt going to worry it much, keep stock 8v or 16v ratios and youll be lucky to get 200BHP down.
Title: Re: how much power do you think a mk2 needs ?
Post by: tech1889 on 24 November 2011, 00:10
i would say 200bhp but would need to be setup really well.. 250 would be great but then you are talking turbos, superchargers and lag...

Im thinking on my mk2.. get the abf and mk3 box in.. then down the line once the cars all tarted up run it on badger5 or simlar ITB's taking it to around 200bhp with no lag and a great performing car..