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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: neil_1821 on 15 November 2011, 22:27

Title: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 15 November 2011, 22:27
Now i'm unsure if were allowed to organize a group buy on here, it's been a while since i've been on here and on other forums your not allowed to unless your an authorized trader, due to people having issues.

If group buys are allowed here well then i need some opinions voiced.

We all know one weakness of the MK3 is the power to weight ratio and how heavy they are so i was wondering if anyone would be interested in a group buy for panels (bonnet, wings, doors) made out of a choice of either carbon fiber or fiberglass?

Its just that at the place i work they said they would make a mold should they get 10+ orders in for a group buy. We make panels/bodykits for mainly jap performance, diffusers etc but i know there are a few vw heads that like this too.

So as stated earlier, voice your opinion, maybe which panel you'd prefer to have made, if you'd want fiberglass or carbon fiber and maybe we can take it from there?
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: F17BAD on 15 November 2011, 22:49
so you are a trader then..   

whats the quality like ?  pictures.. close ups etc
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 16 November 2011, 09:33
We haven't got any molds made up as I'm just gathering interest, however I can get some pictures of current fibreglass panels and there is an order for a carbon rear diffuser on an rx7, so I'll get some pictures of that when it's made, these will probably be Friday night.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: twotwofour on 16 November 2011, 13:10
I'd be interested in bonnet and wings if the price was sensible, ideally in carbon, possibly boot too.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: geeksteve on 16 November 2011, 13:21
Wings, so the sodding things wont rust then :P
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: N900 MJT on 16 November 2011, 14:09
Wings would be good!
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: F17BAD on 16 November 2011, 15:48
Wings would be but mine are flaired and need to keep that..
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 16 November 2011, 15:54
So i get the general feeling that people would like the wings

Now would you all be looking at them to be made of carbon fiber or fiberglass?

Due to them being made of either there wont be an inner lip, so no need for cutting that off, just have to trim your mud liners if you have them fitted.

Also on the wings would you be looking at having the side repeater installed or totally shaved? Obvs totally shaved would be easier to make.

So the list as it stands (please copy and paste if you wish to show your interest)

1. neil_1821 - bonnet, wings
2. n900 mjt - wings
3. geeksteve - wings
4. twotwofour - bonnet, wings, boot

Would only need another 6 people for us to make a mold of the wings, but i can get back to you all with a price list for definite. However i'd still like to gather some interest, so if you have any friends not on the forums or whatever, spread the word, the more people we could get for an order of wings the cheaper the price could be.

Much love  :smiley:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: chrismorby on 16 November 2011, 16:23
did i miss the bit about cost ?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: geeksteve on 16 November 2011, 16:24
did i miss the bit about cost ?  :laugh:

Indeed. I'd only want to be left on that list if the cost was small enough :P
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 16 November 2011, 16:27
I'd be interested in wings too if the price was right, but a bit concerned about how I would refit the trim + mudflaps if there is no lip on them?

also regarding the side repeaters, its illegal to not have them fitted so they would need a hole for them :)

I think regardless of wether you get 10 ppl from here interested or not, if you made up 10 pairs of wings you would have no problem shifting them
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 16 November 2011, 16:45
No you didn't miss the bit about cost, i mentioned i was gathering interest, the more people we get the cheaper it would be. I'd like to know at least 10 people would want a set of wings before taking the time to make a mold.

As with regards to re-fitting the trim. it could be possible to add a lip at the bottom for mudflaps and there will naturally be holes in the side for your door trim.

It would also be possible to make a recess for indicators although my MK3 hasn't got them so i'd have to box it off  :grin:

In general what would people be happy to pay for a set of wings, molded to an original wing not a pattern part so they'd fit straight on out of carbon fibre and fibreglass?
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: twotwofour on 16 November 2011, 17:39
How much are the parts you make for Japanese cars? I would expect the costs to be comparable.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: stainesy on 16 November 2011, 18:28
Remember early mk3's have different shape Wong indicators than later models.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 16 November 2011, 18:46
Remember early mk3's have different shape Wong indicators than later models.

That would have to be something to address if we get enough people. I'm sure if they wanted 2 wings that will never rust they might be willing to make a compromise on the shapes of their side repeaters  :grin:

As an idea a full rear spoiler for an R34 skyline is £285, however there is a massive difference between a wing and a spoiler. A wing is far easier to make whereas a spoiler is extremely difficult.

Wings are basically flat sheet, easy enough to make and the fibreglass panels we make are for top end cars too like range rover (in fact we just fitted one to a footballers new vogue).

I shall get a price for both carbon and fibreglass wings. carbon will be more expensive as you have to use clear coat gel and the matting is expensive, it's not the cheap impregnated stuff, plus you've got resin and the man hours it takes to make them, however being a group buy i'm sure a compromise can be worked out.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: tweed on 16 November 2011, 18:48
I would have wing but they need to be pulled wider than standard?
I would have doors, rear boot, bonnet, bumpers  :grin:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Bellend on 16 November 2011, 19:01
I'd make them with no hole and just put marks in to cut your own. I know there's a slight lip but that's not an issue the indicator will still fit.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Len on 16 November 2011, 20:58
A set of wings will make sod all difference to the overall weight of the car!

A passenger or quarter tank of fuel will make more difference! :rolleyes:

Numpties!
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Seanl on 16 November 2011, 21:37
A set of wings will make sod all difference to the overall weight of the car!

A passenger or quarter tank of fuel will make more difference! :rolleyes:

Numpties!

This. Bonnet, doors (although I wouldn't risk these in fibreglass), and boot would be a better bet. If your that bothered about weight, change your glass for perspex and save a fortune too.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: F17BAD on 16 November 2011, 22:12
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-MK3-CARBON-FIBRE-FIBER-BONNET-LITETUNED-/280756980669?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item415e6b8bbd#ht_1391wt_1189

CHAV or not ?
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: tweed on 16 November 2011, 22:18
I would paint it  :wink:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 16 November 2011, 22:50
This at least to me is about rust free wings, not weight. If I wanted to save weight I'd take my tool box out the back :grin:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: F17BAD on 16 November 2011, 22:58
This at least to me is about rust free wings, not weight. If I wanted to save weight I'd take my tool box out the back :grin:



 :grin:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 16 November 2011, 22:59
This at least to me is about rust free wings, not weight. If I wanted to save weight I'd take my tool box out the back :grin:


This too

A good way to stop rust from accumulating on the front end of the car

Providing enough people want wings, bonnet etc we could then go on to make doors and boots etc

as long as their are enough people the possibilities are endless. In fact my long term goal is to make every part of the MK3 from carbon, roof, bonnet, doors, rear quarters, wings and boot
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: geeksteve on 17 November 2011, 01:02
This at least to me is about rust free wings, not weight. If I wanted to save weight I'd take my tool box out the back :grin:


Agree here. My mk3 will ALWAYS be a tank. I'm just interested in a non-rusty tank ;)
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: stainesy on 17 November 2011, 10:43
I'd be interested in fibreglass wings if price was cheap enough.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Wayne on 17 November 2011, 11:01
You can already get fibreglass wings for a mk3, have seen them on a few cars.

However, people need to remember that you are taking away a lot of strength from the front end, the wings are an integral part of the crash structure, not sure where you stand with the mot as well as I think they did used to be classed as a failure.

As for weight saving, with the extra material needed to make fibreglass panels strong enough to use they are not a lot lighter than steel.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Seanl on 17 November 2011, 13:20
Dunno about being an MOT failure. My old much hated 307 had plastic front wings.  :sick:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: harlemex on 17 November 2011, 13:22
what about a whole shell?
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Wayne on 17 November 2011, 13:47
Dunno about being an MOT failure. My old much hated 307 had plastic front wings.  :sick:

Very different it was designed and built with plastic wings, the difference is replacing steel with fibreglass.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: chrismorby on 17 November 2011, 17:35
price ffs
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 17 November 2011, 18:51
Big mistake people make is thinking that in order to make fibreglas strong it's going to be heavy, that's wrong. The bumpers we've made I've actually tested to destruction, they're extremely light and very strong.

As for wings being an integral part of the crash structure I don't think it'd make much difference, your chassis legs, engine and firewall take the brunt of the impact. Plus if your rings are rusty their not going to do much  :grin:

Anyway prices coming tomorrow for carbon fibre and fibreglass wings, as stated earlier in my posts!!! is you care to read through the thread properly chris  :wink:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: harlemex on 17 November 2011, 20:47
isnt carbon fibre actually stronger than the steel wings.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 17 November 2011, 21:59
Depends which way the weave is laid as to which direction it's strongest in, but yeah carbon fibre is a retty good contender, hence why many race cars use it, due to it's properties
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: CJA321 on 17 November 2011, 23:26
Id be interested in wings. depending on price... mine are rusty!!!!!

And btw renault use PLASTIC wings on the front of allmost all there cars. and there some of the safest around. So wayne as far as you were concerned with MOT it wont make sod all differance.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: CJA321 on 17 November 2011, 23:32
Allso MOT dosnt count wings as prescribed area as they dont moint any suspension, seatbelts, brake servo, engine mounts etc and arnt bearing.. your wings can be totally wrotten at the bottom and it wont matter. aslong as you have no jagged edges from corrosion :-)
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Wayne on 17 November 2011, 23:57
isnt carbon fibre actually stronger than the steel wings.

Can be but not always.


And btw renault use PLASTIC wings on the front of allmost all there cars. and there some of the safest around. So wayne as far as you were concerned with MOT it wont make sod all differance.

This is true as do a lot of cars these days but we are not talking about modern cars they are designed to crumple etc and can get away with plastic wings due to the crash structure underneath, mk3's are a lot older tech in terms of crash performance and what ever happens the wings are an integral part of the crash structure.

Also I did not say they will fail the mot but could as you are taking away strength from the main structure.


Allso MOT dosnt count wings as prescribed area as they dont moint any suspension, seatbelts, brake servo, engine mounts etc and arnt bearing.. your wings can be totally wrotten at the bottom and it wont matter. aslong as you have no jagged edges from corrosion :-)

Again valid point but steel is still stronger than glassfibre and they do form part of the structure.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Misky on 18 November 2011, 10:02
everyone will be rocking no wheel arche trims!  :lipsrsealed:

Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: CJA321 on 18 November 2011, 12:36
Yeah no doubt steel is stronger. My point is just for the fact of MOT it wont make any diffwrance. as for front end strength your totally right wayne. that wasnt what i was answering to  :smiley:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: tweed on 18 November 2011, 17:21
everyone will be rocking no wheel arche trims!  :lipsrsealed:




 :rolleyes: How do you work that out?

I will paint the carbon and glue the trim on  :wink:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: X01X on 18 November 2011, 19:53
I'd be interested in bonnet and wings if the price was sensible, ideally in carbon, possibly boot too.

i like the wing and bonnet idea
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 18 November 2011, 20:40
ok i've been talking to the boss

He said he wont' do them out of fibreglass because he won't make any money out of it, to quote his phrase it'd be like "pissing in the wind"

If they were to be made of carbon fibre it's probably going to run around £300 a wing  :undecided: but he's got to find out the cost of the raw materials. I know for a fact raw material has shot up in price and today when we were making the carbon rear diffuser i now realise just exactly how much work is involved in a making a carbon piece, it's really not that simple.

I can guess what people's answers will be, that the price is too high and yes i do agree but after you've factored in the amount of the material, the time it take to make the mould and the time it takes to make one panel it does kinda make sense.

Rx-7 rear diffuser is £320 including postage, so i guess that's the rough cost of carbon panels that size.  :cry:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Wayne on 19 November 2011, 00:00
If they were to be made of carbon fibre it's probably going to run around £300 a wing  :undecided:

 :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: stainesy on 19 November 2011, 08:40
Erm yeah I'm out of this deal then  :shocked:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Khare on 19 November 2011, 13:39
lololololololololololololololol



£600 for some wings which apparently are "simple" to make.


Do your research, find out exact prices and organize everything before you fire the idea into the market otherwise what just happened will happen.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: harlemex on 19 November 2011, 15:33
this is like a major fail episode of dragons den  :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: LazyLunatic on 19 November 2011, 15:40
FAIL. I've heard a carbon company down here and going to start making Mk2 parts, so maybe see Mk3 parts soon. Mate wants them to make a carbon roof and I want a bonnet.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: shepgti on 19 November 2011, 15:54
thats an expensive diffuser! theres a company than make corsa vxr diffusers for 220 and they arnt exactly small :undecided:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 19 November 2011, 17:54
well there is the factor of the raw materials shooting up in price and all the man hours it takes to make them

Carbon fibre parts are expensive, MK3 carbon roof will run you about £500 and that's a flat panel. A proper double skinned carbon bonnet will also run you £600

Only other way is to get the carbon impreg, but then you need a vacuum and a baking oven.
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: tweed on 19 November 2011, 18:20
oh well mate, the thought was there.  :grin:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: stainesy on 19 November 2011, 18:40
oh well mate, the thought was there.  :grin:

 :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: neil_1821 on 19 November 2011, 19:34
wishful thinking i rekon  :cry:
Title: Re: Group buy on carbon/fibreglass panels?
Post by: Khare on 19 November 2011, 22:43
oh well mate, the thought was there.  :grin:


 :grin: :grin: :grin: