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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 16:32

Title: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 16:32
Hi all, i have a problem with my 95 8v gti. Its been running funny for a few weeks now i.e. Fuel consumption has halfed and it might just be me but it sempt to be abit flat under hard accelleration. It was stood for 4 days, i went to start it up and nothing :huh:. It turns over nicely, i have fuel and a spark but it doesnt fire up and my oil light flashes. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Screech16v on 06 November 2011, 16:34
Try changing relay 30. :smiley:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Khare on 06 November 2011, 16:36
And also the coolant temp sensor.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 16:37
Ive just read something about i will have a look. Thankyou
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 16:41
Thanks khare will do. I like the pic on ur post thats a regular sight on my drive lol. Good old golfs ay
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Khare on 06 November 2011, 16:43
Haha yes, they're always in bits!
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 16:50
Yep. All good fun though
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 20:37
If the number 30 relay has gone will i still get a spark when i turn the engine over?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: madmanmart on 06 November 2011, 20:39
If the number 30 relay has gone will i still get a spark when i turn the engine over?

No, it is the ECU relay.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 20:44
Thought so. Is there anything else that could be stopping the car from starting even thought there is fuel and a spark?????
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 06 November 2011, 20:49
Timing or crank position sensor  :undecided: have you got an immobiliser ? can you start it by jump starting it? Have you cleaned the throttle body ?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 06 November 2011, 20:57
Im not 100% sure if it has an immobilizer the only bit of evidence ive got to say it has one is a systems check list done by an independant garage from the previous owner and i haven tried to bump it yet because i wont get it bavk on my drive. Would any of the suggested faults explain why my fuel consumption dropped?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Screech16v on 06 November 2011, 21:10
Sorry dude i meant fuel relay 167,i allways get them the wrong way round  :rolleyes:,when you say youve got fuel do you mean in the tank or at the injectors,can you smell petrol out the exhaust after cranking?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 06 November 2011, 21:10
Could you get a mate or someone to pop around with some jump leads because if it starts with a jump then it could be either alternator, starter motor or batterys to low to start it.

Not sure what your fuel problem was/is could be a number of things however if your timings out by a tooth then it would certainly be sluggish and could i suppose use more fuel. Simple way of knowing if the timings out or the hall sensor is broken is if you get it started rev it and see if it goes over 5000rpm if it won't go over that then the cars in limp mode meaning one of the two problems i've said is broken or off marks.

Have you had it on a vag com tester to see if any codes are showing? If not ask if theres someone near by who can do it for you or buy one off ebay for about £10 ish

Other thing is have you checked your oil and water is all correct and neither is contaminated with eachother?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 08 November 2011, 18:04
Sorry dude i meant fuel relay 167,i allways get them the wrong way round  :rolleyes:,when you say youve got fuel do you mean in the tank or at the injectors,can you smell petrol out the exhaust after cranking?



the spark plugs are soaked in fuel
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 08 November 2011, 18:08
Timing or crank position sensor  :undecided: have you got an immobiliser ? can you start it by jump starting it? Have you cleaned the throttle body ?

Im not questioning your knowledge at all here but why would the throttle body cause this. Just asking so i know what im looking for when i check it
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Screech16v on 08 November 2011, 19:16
OK,so you defo got fuel as plugs are wet,where did you check for spark ,at the plug end or coil lead,just to eliminate rotor and cap,when cranking is the spark still there say after 5seconds of cranking or does it stop sparking while still cranking,have you checked your timing marks line up? :smiley:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 08 November 2011, 21:54
OK,so you defo got fuel as plugs are wet,where did you check for spark ,at the plug end or coil lead,just to eliminate rotor and cap,when cranking is the spark still there say after 5seconds of cranking or does it stop sparking while still cranking,have you checked your timing marks line up? :smiley:


i arced the plugs up against the block and it continued to spark. I havent checked the timing. How would i do this?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Adezmk3 on 08 November 2011, 21:54
I have the same problem now :(

My failure to start is following cleaning the throttle body out which is annoying as I have never heard anyone have a problem after cleaning it out!

My car wouldn't rev past 5000rpm before, but did on 1 random occasion. I have had my hall sensor checked by the electrical engineers at work and they said its fine, so I may have a wiring fault, although I still have a spark and wet plugs too....
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 10 November 2011, 14:18
Just got round to bumping and jumping my car still no luck gonna replace the coil pack today if i still have no joy i know av lovely scrap man who would love to take it off my hands
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 10 November 2011, 17:17
Just been to a garage which specializes in golfs he seems to think it the crank sensor so i bought one and im gonna fit it when ive got any spare time failing that he thinks the fuel pumps not got enough pressure. Fingers crossed its this sensor.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 10 November 2011, 17:22
I have the same problem now :(

My failure to start is following cleaning the throttle body out which is annoying as I have never heard anyone have a problem after cleaning it out!

My car wouldn't rev past 5000rpm before, but did on 1 random occasion. I have had my hall sensor checked by the electrical engineers at work and they said its fine, so I may have a wiring fault, although I still have a spark and wet plugs too....


If your car didn't pass the 5000rpm limit then its a timing issue which points to either knackered hall sensor, distributor or the timing has come out on the engine as you have said it did once i would look at distributor first and as you say possible wire contacting under acceleration. Not sure if ignition switch falls under the limp mode setting or not  :undecided:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 10 November 2011, 19:47
I think ive found the problem. I took the front splitter off the car and noticed somehing hanging in front of the drivers wheel. Its cylindrical with two yellow wires on each end which lead into one yellow plug which plugs into what i think is the main wirering loom under he air box. Does anyone what it is?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 10 November 2011, 19:49
Yes that is to do with the dipped beam on the headlights not sure how that would cause your problem though  :undecided: Think the five mk3's ive had have all been hanging down or missing with no issue  :smiley:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Seanl on 10 November 2011, 20:00
Carbon Canister? Not needed anyway really so shouldnt cause you problems.  :undecided:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 10 November 2011, 20:33
Nothings changed back to swapping the crank sensor
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Wayne on 10 November 2011, 20:43
Could be an ecu fault  :undecided:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: GTI JIMMER on 11 November 2011, 17:37
Let us know how changing the crank sensor goes!

How much was a new one?

Feel for you mate, it's horrible throwing money in again and again to no avail!
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 11 November 2011, 18:02
Let us know how changing the crank sensor goes!

How much was a new one?

Feel for you mate, it's horrible throwing money in again and again to no avail!

cost me £30. Gonna av a go on sunday but the cars on the road an i dont wanna be doing it there if it gonna be to much hassle
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dan-swire1908 on 11 November 2011, 18:05
Sounds to me like your ignition/HT leads are knackered. What will happen is when the cylinder is under pressure its harder for the spark to be produced and over time as the rubber insulating on the leads becomes perished it will leak the spark straight onto the head. When your testing the plugs out of the cylinder all the spark has to deal with is atmospheric pressure which is why its able to jump the electrode gap as your cranking it over. Remove your leads and check for any signs of white kinda chalky looking marks on the inner edge of the insulation....
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 11 November 2011, 18:09
Nice one will check that now. I thought it i had the spark everthing before the plugs were fine
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 11 November 2011, 18:26
Sounds to me like your ignition/HT leads are knackered. What will happen is when the cylinder is under pressure its harder for the spark to be produced and over time as the rubber insulating on the leads becomes perished it will leak the spark straight onto the head. When your testing the plugs out of the cylinder all the spark has to deal with is atmospheric pressure which is why its able to jump the electrode gap as your cranking it over. Remove your leads and check for any signs of white kinda chalky looking marks on the inner edge of the insulation....

just check leads they look like new. Thanks anyway. Please keep the suggestions coming though they are much apreciated


Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 13 November 2011, 10:27
Gonna swap the crank sensor today fingers crossed it works :undecided:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 13 November 2011, 14:16
Crank sensor replaced still no luck out of options now
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: patc on 13 November 2011, 16:23
I solved my similar problem by changing, in this order:

Coil pack
Dizzy cap
Plugs
Leads
Crank sensor
ECU relay
Fuel pump relay

The winner seemed to be the 2 relays as its been faultless since, although the crank sensor needed doing anyway as it was shot!
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 13 November 2011, 16:56
Tryed for a spark again and all i got was a sh!tty faint orange flicker. So im going to re-order the coil pack that i canceled and if that works repeatedly kick myself
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: GTI JIMMER on 14 November 2011, 12:10
Good luck!! Have you had a look at the ecu yet?
Is pretty easy to get to, might be worth a look?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 14 November 2011, 19:33
Had a look at it yesterday when i swapped the crank sensor, which by the way is an absolute ball ache, it looked perfect
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: GTI JIMMER on 14 November 2011, 19:40
Oh right, sh!t the bed....
You had any other thoughts?

What about relays and that kind of thing? You used one of those diagnostic things to check if every things ok?

Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 14 November 2011, 20:18
Not yet gonna change the coil tomorrow if that doesnt i know a man with a daignostics machine
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 14 November 2011, 20:25
Good luck for tomorrow i reckon you will find the answer with the coil pack hopefully
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 14 November 2011, 20:37
Cheers mate. That the first thing i checked cos i know what they are like and my spark was bright blue. Tried it yesterday and a very faint orange flicker so theres obviously something wrong with it.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 14 November 2011, 20:56
just make sure you have a good earth from engine to coil and everywhere else check all the other wiring around the engine especially behind the throttle body area as the exhaust heat shield can burn them apart from that re check your relays not all parts that i've changed have been good parts thats from experience then you end up trying everything again  :sad: you will get there in the end mate always seems to be the 8v's ive had 3 and all had issues now have a 16v and not one problem electrically yet (touch wood )
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 16 November 2011, 12:17
Just changed the coil and im getting a cough and a splutter but still no luck im thinking maybe not enough juice in the battery so ive put it on charge. My oil light is still flashing thought is that normal?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: patc on 16 November 2011, 12:36
Have you done the relays yet?
I am pretty sure they were the final things to cure mine, and they were £9 each and 10 mins to fit :)
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 16 November 2011, 13:16
Not yet. Just tried bumping it and i didnt sound healthy at all
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 16 November 2011, 19:21
With the new coil pack on i'm still lacking in the spark department. I get 1 or 2 every 5 seconds or so??? Anyone?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: sharki786 on 16 November 2011, 20:57
With the new coil pack on i'm still lacking in the spark department. I get 1 or 2 every 5 seconds or so??? Anyone?

my cousine had same problem today. turned out to be the crank sensor
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 16 November 2011, 21:03
With the new coil pack on i'm still lacking in the spark department. I get 1 or 2 every 5 seconds or so??? Anyone?

my cousine had same problem today. turned out to be the crank sensor

replaced that on sunday mate. Thanks for the input though
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 17 November 2011, 21:50
have you tried new plugs?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Deano2711 on 17 November 2011, 21:58
I would say the HT leads need replacing. I had a set once that looked like new but just one of them was knackered. I found out by servicing the car with new plugs and leads etc. Don't be fooled thinking that because they look new they are working Mate. Pity you don't know someone close by who can swap there leads over one by one to eliminate these for you.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 17 November 2011, 22:07
Rotor arm and dizzy cap has now been replaced still nothing. I have taken my distributor off now to change the hall sensor but now its off i might replace both.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 17 November 2011, 22:08
plugs??
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: jiminbmth on 18 November 2011, 19:29
yer,id check the dizzy and hall !
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 11:56
Right so... dizzy, hall sensor, dizzy cap, rotor arm, coil pack and the crank sensor has now been replaced and yes you guessed it still nothing im now out of ideas
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Seanl on 20 November 2011, 12:07
Have you changed ecu and fuel pump relays? Also leads? Do you have any air leaks on vacuum hoses? Sorry I cant be arsed to read through it all again!  :evil:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Deano2711 on 20 November 2011, 13:56
Try changing HT leads Bud
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 20 November 2011, 14:02
and plugs.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 15:21
I got an oil sensor on its way then the relays are the next job but it cant be the fuel sensor because theres plenty of fuel getting through
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: patc on 20 November 2011, 15:27
I had exact same problem. I'd put money on the relays as said previously.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Seanl on 20 November 2011, 16:12
Yep relays should have been one of the first to replace as their cheap and easy to do.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 18:54
Just had a mate round how know his sh!t with vdubs and hes found it has a spark when i turn the ignition on (not when i turn it over). Apperently thats not supposed to happen so hes advised me to change relays 30, 72 and 99
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 20 November 2011, 19:01
worth a try but I dont think its your problem...
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 19:10
Would you suggest anything?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 20 November 2011, 19:39
New plugs?? since you have been to the length of changing most of the other ignition components, do this.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 20:45
I've already changed the plugs so its not them
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 20 November 2011, 20:52
well why didnt you say???  :laugh: Compression test needed.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 21:24
Had to manually turn the engine when I changed the dizzy and it took some shifting but its obviously not a compression test
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Seanl on 20 November 2011, 21:27
As said, start with relays. ECU and fuel pump relays - 30 being one of em, but I cant remember the other. They are about £12 I think, so should really have been one of the first things to be replaced being so common and so cheap to replace.  :smiley:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Screech16v on 20 November 2011, 22:20
Cmon this ^ you aint lost much if it isnt the prob,sean the other one your thinkin is 167 i think :tongue:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 20 November 2011, 22:42
Gonna change the relays next the guy who looked at my car said he had a similar problem with his corrado and it was his relay 72. Its definately not the fuel relay i took the fuel line off and turned the engine and it pissed everywhere
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Leon27 on 20 November 2011, 23:16

Corrado relay no.72 could be different to a Mk3 relay 72. Saying that because:

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=74087.0

Relay 72 is for the rear wash/wipe function.

Have you had the car scanned for faults? If nothing comes up I'd definately do what harlemex said and get a compression test done.

Few things though, you said intially your fuel consumption halved and the car felt flat... Skipped timing could cause that.
Then the spark sequence wasn't correct, again, cam (dizzy) to crankshaft correlation could be out giving that fault.

Get a compression test done as said or simply just check the timing marks are all in place.

If all is ok, even after changing your relays, check over all the new parts that you have bought. You mentioned a weak orange spark, it should be bright white/blue colour indicating high resistance through a faulty part?

Hope you nail this  :smiley:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: patc on 21 November 2011, 08:51
Relays 30 & 167. For the sake of just £10 each and 5 mins to do, it's the most obvious choice before larger expense.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 22 November 2011, 22:41
Faulty car + diagnostics machine = no faults :huh:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: patc on 23 November 2011, 11:39
Done the cheap obvious relays yet!?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 23 November 2011, 12:36
No thats todays job really hope it works
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 23 November 2011, 18:12
Found me a relay. £11 from europarts picking it up in the morning. Fingers crossed :undecided:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: patc on 23 November 2011, 19:09
"a" relay?  Not both?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 23 November 2011, 19:18
Didnt bother with the fuel relay as im getting plenty of it.
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 25 November 2011, 10:51
Relay replaced all earths checked and yet again still nothing and a flashing oil light
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 27 November 2011, 14:25
Right the car is now in the garage ive done all i can do. Dropped it off and the guy said come back tomorrow and it will be done :huh:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: harlemex on 27 November 2011, 14:32
he'll replace the engine and give you a thousand pound bill .   :laugh: :laugh: :grin: :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 27 November 2011, 21:51
I know him and hes a good lad. I had a metal on metal rattle coming from under after i bought car so i took it down to him and it turns out the back bow was put on by a gibbon so he welded my exhaust up and tightened my rear wheel bearings up for £20
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 28 November 2011, 22:06
Went to the garage today to see how my car was getting on and the guy seems yo think he know what wrong :grin: he thinks its a socket on the ignition just behind where the key goes in. Hopefully i'll be driving it home tomorrow
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Screech16v on 28 November 2011, 22:16
Fingers crossed ey...back on the road  :smiley:
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 28 November 2011, 22:36
Ye fingers crossed and if i can drive it home its gonna have the biggest thrashing its ever had :grin: i've been driving a 1ltr yaris this past month so i need to catch up on all the missing fun
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: NERF 69 on 29 November 2011, 20:04
In the garage for 3 days now and still no further major pissed now :angry: he think faulty ignition switch. Any oppinions?
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: Adezmk3 on 29 November 2011, 21:25
Does anyone know what the flashing oil light means? I have exactly the same problem with my car but haven't had much time to commit to fixing it, I've tried a different throttle body and coil on mine so far but still the car wont fire.

What is the flashing oil light for?

Thanks

Adrian
Title: Re: car wont start. help please
Post by: dragongreengolfgti on 29 November 2011, 21:50
with all the prices for the bits you replace and garage fees it would be cheaper to buy a new engine  :wink: but in my experience flashing oil light could be not enough oil, oil pump not working  :undecided: other thing is have you checked you have a cam belt still fully intact and hasn't snapped? get a compression check and do a diagnostics scan to start with! I feel theres an ecu problem somewhere on nerf69's problem but could be wrong