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General => General discussion => Topic started by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 20:27

Title: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 20:27
Basically I got a loop, I want to run it outside the house and up the wall (in conduit) and then back into the house to supply power to an extractor fan in the bathroom that has a humidity sensor.

Would this be fine and meat all the latest nonsense like 16th edition etc, does the conduit material matter, plastic or metal?

Ideally I don't want to run it up the inside as the bathroom is half tiled and I'm not willing to take it up.

Also how many cables can I run in the conduit, as I want to spur an additional wire off for a floodlight.

Thanks in advance?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 20:32
Can you not run it through the loft? the fan can be connected to the lights in the bathroom so no need to be on the socket circuit

How about spuring off a socket close to the place you want the outside light to be? Doesn't have to come from downstairs, means less cable and no conduit if you can drill straight out?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Seanl on 18 October 2011, 20:38
Does sound an odd way to do it. If you have to though, pretty sure you'll need armoured cable for external use regardless of whether conduit is being used. (Dont quote me on that). Oh and its 17th Edition now....... :grin: By the way, I'm not an electrician, just trying to get my post count up!  :grin:
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 20:49
Well it's the nearest feed and by going outside its the easiest route.

Can't go the roof/loft way due to the design off the house:


___________
                    \
    Loft            \ ___________
____________ /                   /|\
                     /                   / |  \ Neighbors
                    /--------------/   |   \
 Bedroom      | Bathroom   |   |    \
___________|__________|   |    |
                    |                  |   |    |
   Reception   | Kitchen      |   |    |
                    |                  |   |    |
___________|__________|__|__|

Basically the bathroom is not that high so the ceiling is slanted the same way as the roof, so it's not accessible, doesn't help that the ceiling has been plastered recently in a pattern, which means this is a no go route  :sad: Misses won't be happy.  :grin:

Which is why I'm asking about the conduit idea as it really seems like the easiest way, if I was doing a full refurbish of the bathroom I'd feed it inside the wall, but as it's been done and not thought through I'm now stuck with this idea, be good to find out if armored cabled is required or not. (PS off topic section doesn't increase post count  :grin: )
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 20:55
Looks like a right b!tch to do! You could drill through from the kitchen and take a 2.5twin and earth to the bathroom fan from a spur inside the kitchen. Same with the outside light, they both need to be on separate spurs though
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 21:07
I was planning on keeping them on separate spurs fed from the kitchen as I planned to fit a switch for the floodlight as I hate the PIR sensor things with a passion.

I imagine you can fit as many cables as you like in a conduit, providing there's room?
Any idea on what material the conduit needs to be or does it not matter?
Any specification on the cable required if it goes outside and into conduit?

Also the floodlight needs to be as high as possible due to the garden being raised and going up hill, so conduit I'm guessing is un-avoidable?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 21:18
They would both be ok run in 1.5mm twin and earth. Plastic conduit would be fine if it's sealed properly.
Would be best to go from the kitchen into an adaptable box with the conduit coming out of the top of it, you can take both cables up one piece of conduit, coming out the side of it using a t piece for the light if you need to?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 21:21
I have conduit glue for the plastic stuff laying around for it to seal, I was thinking off doing the T-piece idea as well.

Whats this adaptable box you speak off?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: hobbiniho on 18 October 2011, 21:23
sorry but to me that sounds really dodgy could you not run it under the floor instead??, how long is the bathroom roof because it is possible to go "fishing" for wires and not disturb the celing  :wink:
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Dewey on 18 October 2011, 21:23
They would both be ok run in 1.5mm twin and earth. Plastic conduit would be fine if it's sealed properly.
Would be best to go from the kitchen into an adaptable box with the conduit coming out of the top of it, you can take both cables up one piece of conduit, coming out the side of it using a t piece for the light if you need to?

This ^^ A t-piece to the light then a conduit end box at the top, a 20mm conduit should be perfect for 1.5mm
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Dewey on 18 October 2011, 21:24
I have conduit glue for the plastic stuff laying around for it to seal, I was thinking off doing the T-piece idea as well.

Whats this adaptable box you speak off?

Its just a plastic box which can be adapted to many uses, a wholesaler will know exactly what your talking about
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 21:29
It's basically a square box that you can drill a hole onto for the conduit with a removable lid incase you have problems with the cables. A round conduit inspection box would be fine too. You just need a way of taking the cable straight into the conduit from the wall to keep it away from the elements.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 21:33
I was thinking off going under the floor, it's disturbing the tiles when going up that worries me unless the misses decides she wants new tiles as now "she doesn't like them"  :grin:, which by all means would be the better option. Am I correct in saying wires under the floor in a bathroom are fine to run providing they have adequate cover from water?

Fishing I've never done unless it involves a lure, I got a wire/current detector laying around somewhere. Bathroom is just over 3m long.

Thanks for the heads up, I know the box you speak off now, not clued up on wording to much. Like recently I knew what rebar was just didn't know what it was called  :laugh:
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Dewey on 18 October 2011, 21:37
Cables are totally fine to run under the bathroom without any special protection, It would be the best option under the floor but if you dont want to disturb tiles then running it outside is a good shout.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 21:44
Going under a bathroom floor isn't a problem, the floor boards will provide the protection needed.
You could try sending a live cable from the pullcord and a neutral from the light through the loft space above the bathroom, you would need to knock a small hole in the ceiling above where the fan is going a try to pass them trough and over, quite easy if you use plastic rods.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 21:48
Don't have access above the ceiling as its slanted along with the roof, can't even access it through the normal loft, only thing I could do is I have an electric shower in the corner which the fan will be 1.8m away from. Any idea's if that could be used somehow?

Also whats the regs now on fitting electric hand rails as most of them have a thermostat switch on them whilst on topic?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Dewey on 18 October 2011, 21:49
Going under a bathroom floor isn't a problem, the floor boards will provide the protection needed.
You could try sending a live cable from the pullcord and a neutral from the light through the loft space above the bathroom, you would need to knock a small hole in the ceiling above where the fan is going a try to pass them trough and over, quite easy if you use plastic rods.

The only problem would be to make sure the spur is high enough outside of zone 1, also would it not be better to just take a switch wire totally from the pull cord instead of a live from the pull cord and neutral from the light?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Ant1981 on 18 October 2011, 21:54
Going under a bathroom floor isn't a problem, the floor boards will provide the protection needed.
You could try sending a live cable from the pullcord and a neutral from the light through the loft space above the bathroom, you would need to knock a small hole in the ceiling above where the fan is going a try to pass them trough and over, quite easy if you use plastic rods.

The only problem would be to make sure the spur is high enough outside of zone 1, also would it not be better to just take a switch wire totally from the pull cord instead of a live from the pull cord and neutral from the light?

Or IP rated.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Dewey on 18 October 2011, 21:57
Going under a bathroom floor isn't a problem, the floor boards will provide the protection needed.
You could try sending a live cable from the pullcord and a neutral from the light through the loft space above the bathroom, you would need to knock a small hole in the ceiling above where the fan is going a try to pass them trough and over, quite easy if you use plastic rods.

The only problem would be to make sure the spur is high enough outside of zone 1, also would it not be better to just take a switch wire totally from the pull cord instead of a live from the pull cord and neutral from the light?

Or IP rated.

Easier and cheaper to just make sure its out the zone than pay more for an ip rated spur to be honest
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 21:58
 Spur would be better outside the bathroom really, we usually put them outside the bathroom above the door.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Dewey on 18 October 2011, 22:01
Spur would be better outside the bathroom really, we usually put them outside the bathroom above the door.

Obviously ideal but we either have them with a spur at the main board with a dp switch above bathroom door or in the bathroom on the opposite wall to the bath/shower
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 22:14
New question


Also whats the regs now on fitting electric hand rails as most of them have a thermostat switch on them whilst on topic?

Regarding earlier question, I don't have access above the ceiling as its slanted along with the roof, can't even access it through the normal loft due to the heights of the bathroom and roof, only thing I could do is I have an electric shower in the corner which the fan will be 1.8m away from. Any idea's if that could be used somehow?

Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 18 October 2011, 22:28
You can't use the shower circuit, any fault with the fan won't trip the fuseboard as the cable to the shower and circuit breaker are far bigger than you need.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Ant1981 on 18 October 2011, 23:16
You can't use the shower circuit, any fault with the fan won't trip the fuseboard as the cable to the shower and circuit breaker are far bigger than you need.

The fuse in the fuseboard is to protect the cable, not the equipment.

You can use the circuit, but for discrimitation you'll need another fuse or breaker to protect the smaller cable.
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: golf-sib on 18 October 2011, 23:19
I'll stick with the conduit idea, whats the regulations with the heated hand/towel rails, do they need a pull cord switch or an external wall switch/fuse?
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: chrisowen85 on 19 October 2011, 11:13
U need a spur outside the bathroom, doesn't really mater where as long as you can get to it incase of a fault
Title: Re: Questions to sparkies
Post by: Ant1981 on 21 October 2011, 08:33
A spur is a method of wiring, it doesn't have to be wired as a spur.

Either use a double pole switch outside or a double pole ceiling pull cord switch.