GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => The garage => Topic started by: scarr89 on 03 October 2011, 17:53
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Why don't cars come from the factory with Rtech/revo remaps say? I don't get it...it seems like a no brainier to have more HP/torque/mpg etc?
Is it too costly for the manufacturers or are remaps chronically bad for your car?
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Remaps reduce the safety margin on the engine in terms of reliability. Also by remapping say a Mk5 GTI, it'll be in direct competition with the Mk5 R32.
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I would say it is down to the extra cost.
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What extra cost?
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Manufacturer cars have to be set up so that anyone can own them, and take all the rubbish that Joe Bloggs may throw at them.
E.g. Low octane fuel, poor servicing, thrashing from cold, longer servicing intervals, clutch and transmission life, CV joints etc.
Also its to stop lower models competing with expensive ones, such as the mk4 golf and TT, as well as the R32.
Sometimes the only difference between models is the map, BMW do this quite a lot.
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What extra cost?
The cost of making a decent map :grin:
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Not to sure about the others and certainly not Carbon Chiptunings remaps.
Main reasons are £ and emissions.
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Cost would be nothing as jv stated. The reason a remapping company will charge £300 odd is because they can, and because they have to go through the process of dealing with independent cars constantly. It'd be no extra effort loading a different map into a chip that's mass produced, it'd be the same as they're doing now just a different map on the chip :smiley:
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Remaps reduce the safety margin on the engine in terms of reliability.
Really?
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Remaps reduce the safety margin on the engine in terms of reliability.
Really?
Theoretically yes, but the people getting remaps more than likely give to f**ks and as stated will look after the engine far better than your average joe.
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Remaps reduce the safety margin on the engine in terms of reliability.
Really?
Theoretically yes, but the people getting remaps more than likely give to f**ks and as stated will look after the engine far better than your average joe.
Are you chaps getting confused between reliability and someone thrashing it?
I don't see how it's more unreliable, there's just more power there, but doesn't mean you have to use it.
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To be fair I'm not clued up on the turbo engines, but say a standard turbo will boost to 15psi and a remapped one will boost to 25psi, that 10 extra psi puts more stress on the internals, the piping, intercooler, etc. A tuned engine will always require more maintenance than a completely standard engine as parts are stressed more.
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To be fair I'm not clued up on the turbo engines, but say a standard turbo will boost to 15psi and a remapped one will boost to 25psi
I see what you mean, but only if you're giving it more beans though I think? A bit like any mechanical part really having more stress though it, even a non turbo vehicle being driven hard, the mechanical parts are under more force and torque.
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there are other parts that would need uprating too so cost would be a big factor IMO
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A lot of it is do with emission rules, driving cycles, drivability for the masses, insurance groups ect.
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A lot of it is do with emission rules, driving cycles, drivability for the masses, insurance groups ect.
How would putting one of your maps on the car increase emissions? Surely it would be down the driver and there driving habits. Some maps increase fuel economy right? Could the car company's not play this economy card and then charge more?
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the way I see it....each market would need a different map (fuel quality in the uk is better than france which in turn is better than eastern europe). At the moment they have 1 map that can take all these different fuels and still run fine. I guess with many uk maps they are designed for higher octane fuels?
(I remember tt saying his rs4 could run with 92 ron if needed!! but the engine would reduce power to compensate for the crap!)
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emissions are checked over the whole rev range and not just tickover I think, more power = more fuel so emissions would be up
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A lot of it is do with emission rules, driving cycles, drivability for the masses, insurance groups ect.
How would putting one of your maps on the car increase emissions? Surely it would be down the driver and there driving habits. Some maps increase fuel economy right? Could the car company's not play this economy card and then charge more?
golf bluemotion
and then they add extra filters, and charge a bomb to service it.
clever really
I rarely believe any car manufacturer that says "cheap to run". Somewhere they'll make up for it. :rolleyes:
Be seeing a LOT of breaking Prius in about 5 years time I reckon, all the 07 plate ones with their failed batteries, costing THOUSANDS to replace. :rolleyes:
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All down to warranty costs plain and simple
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All down to warranty costs plain and simple
what?? It would be cheaper to make a car specific for each country warranty wise.... why does a uk vw need to be able to run on 92ron?? If it was only designed to run on 95 or 97 using anything else would void the warranty (like vw do with the oil you put it!!)
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A lot of it is do with emission rules, driving cycles, drivability for the masses, insurance groups ect.
How would putting one of your maps on the car increase emissions? Surely it would be down the driver and there driving habits. Some maps increase fuel economy right? Could the car company's not play this economy card and then charge more?
golf bluemotion
and then they add extra filters, and charge a bomb to service it.
clever really
I rarely believe any car manufacturer that says "cheap to run". Somewhere they'll make up for it. :rolleyes:
Be seeing a LOT of breaking Prius in about 5 years time I reckon, all the 07 plate ones with their failed batteries, costing THOUSANDS to replace. :rolleyes:
Lets buy a prius to save the planet.
made by big planet killing factories
shipped from different parts of the world by fuel chugging ships
loaded unloaded by heavy fuel burning machinery
cars maufactured by robots by fuel chugging robots
taken to dealerships on the back of a big car carrier
so it matters what comes out of the exhaust after all that... right!!!
Exactly. Plus for the Eco freaks, didn't they work out that in the average life cycle, a small engined hatchback produced far less bad stuff (no idea what it is) then the Prius after the battery has been made or something?
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This is an amusing thread to read. :smiley:
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A lot of it is do with emission rules, driving cycles, drivability for the masses, insurance groups ect.
How would putting one of your maps on the car increase emissions? Surely it would be down the driver and there driving habits. Some maps increase fuel economy right? Could the car company's not play this economy card and then charge more?
Emissions and fuel economy not the same thing fuel economy will come under the layed out driving cycle. On all remapped cars driving emissions will be higher under load, petrol cars the fuel and ignition angle is for power so the hydrocarbons will he higher. (but saying that stock 2.0TFSI engine under load and after a good hard drive run a very high hydrocarbon out put. TDIs will run a higher soot content under load.
When designers plan a car all this information is pre setout for them, they have to work with the software calibratior to get the correct outputs with in a % of component efficiency. These engine will bee tested flat out to the max at 10,000 rpm for many hours during dyno bench testing, if they last the duration the engines get stripped then inspected to work out a VERY safe working limit which will be safe in all climates around the world and using different qulaity fuel.
So in theory a stock 150bhp 1.8T AUM should make the exact same power, simlar MPG and emissions in the heat of India using poor qulaity fuel than it would in the UK in the winter months using V-power. But the same car remapped would make a lot less power, poor MPG, and crap emissions in India on the cheap fuel.
Take a look at the the AUM 150bhp and AUQ 180BHp GTI, exact same hardware, the ecu will swap over ect just the software and mapping take the AUQ to 150bhp you could say the AUQ is a factory remapped 150bhp Golf? . IMO the 180BHP Golf was produced to appeal to another aged market and promote the Anni as being a little better. The AUQ engine code demotes the emission rating of the engine, look at technical data and you will see that from the factory at 180bhp it has a higher emission output.
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I'd say emissions is the biggest target manufacturers have to make, why do you think on the 1.8t things got changed to a 7.5 ECU. Also look at mapping, the fuel to air ratio has a slightly different effect when pulled one way or another to achieve a better torque result or BHP or lowering EGT and so on, these all effect the overall emissions produced.
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I'd say emissions is the biggest target manufacturers have to make, why do you think on the 1.8t things got changed to a 7.5 ECU. Also look at mapping, the fuel to air ratio has a slightly different effect when pulled one way or another to achieve a better torque result or BHP or lowering EGT and so on, these all effect the overall emissions produced.
+1
Just look at an Audi S3 / TT 210/225 map they run lambda 1 most of the driving cycle, its only when the car hit a egt threshold the ecu starts to dump fuel, now try and run them fuel maps at 270bhp.
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If a 150bhp AUM is remapped, driving sensibily changing gears at 2000rpm, will there be much change in MPG or only when nailing it?
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If a 150bhp AUM is remapped, driving sensibily changing gears at 2000rpm, will there be much change in MPG or only when nailing it?
So many differant way to tune the AUM, done right and drove correct you will get much better MPG, but once using all the power WOT per engine cycle you will be using much more fuel.
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they eventually go pop..... :lipsrsealed:
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they eventually go pop..... :lipsrsealed:
only mk4's :grin: :grin:
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and audi's :lipsrsealed:
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and audi's :lipsrsealed:
:shocked:
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they eventually go pop..... :lipsrsealed:
only mk4's :grin: :grin:
Wot about a Mk3 with an S3 engine? :rolleyes:
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they eventually go pop..... :lipsrsealed:
only mk4's :grin: :grin:
Wot about a Mk3 with an S3 engine? :rolleyes:
na.. mine is not requesting silly amounts of boost
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and audi's :lipsrsealed:
especially big Audis?
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You're like a bloody bunch of kids on here at the mo
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You're like a bloody bunch of kids on here at the mo
I know, their posts should be deleted post haste :cool:
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I'd say the 7.5 ECU is bang on, a lot off potential. As a stock system you have a Crankshaft sensor, knock sensors, MAF, MAP, Lambda and a potentiometer detecting TB angle, DBW... which all gives plenty off play for tuning.
Think the question should be what are you after from your golf?
I quite like the look off the megasquirts ecu, very diy, looks quit intrusting if you are building a kit car etc...
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The AGU's ECU is a 3.8, it will be fine for that power
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A MK4 running 250bhp reliably :lipsrsealed:
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Why is that hard to imagine :huh:
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A MK4 running 250bhp reliably :lipsrsealed:
Agreed, it wont!
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A MK4 running 250bhp reliably :lipsrsealed:
:grin:
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I'm baffled, I've had no problems in over 2 years of mk4 ownership :undecided:
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I'm baffled, I've had no problems in over 2 years of mk4 ownership :undecided:
Mines been magic too in the 6 years iv had it :wink:
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A MK4 running 250bhp reliably :lipsrsealed:
Why would it be a problem, good quality map on a well maintained car with the right parts I don't see a problem.
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Thinks our mk4's aren't a scratch on his s3 :rolleyes:
TBH they not in every aspect. :smiley:
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A MK4 running 250bhp reliably :lipsrsealed:
Why would it be a problem, good quality map on a well maintained car with the right parts I don't see a problem.
Agreed. Anyways define reliable?