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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: golfmk4owner on 03 October 2011, 10:26
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Hi guys, ive changed the head gasket on my mk2 gti 16v k-jet. KR engine code.
Ive put everything back together and she wont start. I've eliminated battery - tried two fully charged batts and used jump leads with my mk5 gt. Still wont turn properly.
It's as if theres too much effort needed for the engine to turn so the battery literraly dies after a few seconds. It doesnt spin fast like it should, so where is the friction / strain coming from?
Not sure if its relevant, but when it does give up after a few seconds, the clock resets, but then i think this is just due to the excessive strain on the battery causing it to lose voltage.
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Put a breaker bar on the crank pully and turn her over by hand, how does she feel?
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As above, confirm cam to crank timing. Whip plugs out, use a long shaft in no.1, and turn the 19mm crank bolt. confirm tdc with screwdriver and the flywheel tdc mark (not the crank pulley to belt cover mark). Check cam pulley is also at tdc with it, or within 1 tooth..
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Ok guys ill give this a try, im confused as to how it might have moved though because the cams went in the same as they came out, and the pistons surely didnt move.
Cheers so far though
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Yeah but in order to remove the head you must remove cambelt, and when re-fitting you have to time it up again. You did check your marks yeah?
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I know but on the 16v the only timing needed is the cam and crank. The crank wasnt going anywhere with the head off cos its quite stiff in place, and the cams went on the same way they came off, so how could it have moved? This is what pickles me - theyre too stiff to just turn on theyre own so they couldnt have moved. The only exception being the intermediate sprocket, which only drives the oil pump anyway
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I know but on the 16v the only timing needed is the cam and crank. The crank wasnt going anywhere with the head off cos its quite stiff in place, and the cams went on the same way they came off, so how could it have moved? This is what pickles me - theyre too stiff to just turn on theyre own so they couldnt have moved. The only exception being the intermediate sprocket, which only drives the oil pump anyway
The cams will 'snap' into a more relaxed position as soon as you remove the cam belt. Hence why you are meant to put her in TDC before doing anything. You do realise that the KR lump is intrusive :lipsrsealed:
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I know but on the 16v the only timing needed is the cam and crank. The crank wasnt going anywhere with the head off cos its quite stiff in place, and the cams went on the same way they came off, so how could it have moved? This is what pickles me - theyre too stiff to just turn on theyre own so they couldnt have moved. The only exception being the intermediate sprocket, which only drives the oil pump anyway
The cams will 'snap' into a more relaxed position as soon as you remove the cam belt. Hence why you are meant to put her in TDC before doing anything. You do realise that the KR lump is intrusive :lipsrsealed:
Beat me to it Sam, as already stated, turn engine manually, with the plugs removed, if the engine still locks up, then the pistons ARE hitting the valves, hopefully if the engine hasn't tried to fire, you may be OK,
When refitting any head, you MUST assume that the the timing marks have moved, and not assume they haven't!
I would check timing marks are correct, then try and start engine, if it runs cack, you have probably damaged the valves, and will require stripping and repairing :sad:
Thom
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When touching the belt or parts that involve messing with the belt you should double or triple check timing marks accurately, before trying to start. For the time it takes- and the £ and time it could save..
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My cuz (mk4 owner) hasn't mentioned that while we were trying to crank her over it didnt even sound as if the starter motor was kicking in, you know when u got a dead batt and you turn the key and you get that sound "jerrrkk" and then it dies? And then when u try again it does the same thing, but when we put the car on jump leads it seemed but very very very slowly to turn about 3-4 times before we got the " omg im a robot with no power" sound.
Am i right in thinking that while we have tryed to turn her over the pistons have been moving? And if the timing was out wouldn't we of hered some crack or bang when the piston/pistons hit the values??
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Hmm. KR lump is intrusive, what does that mean mate?
Im thinking i maye have kicked myself in the foot here and should have timed her properly. Damn.
With regards to the crank timing, is the mark on the round pulley, or the little cog behind it, because i had that pully off and there were no notches
cheers so far guys
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Use the flwheel tdc mark for crank timing. You have to remove green gearbox bung completely to see it. Confirm it with something long shafted down cyl 1
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Hmm. KR lump is intrusive, what does that mean mate?
Im thinking i maye have kicked myself in the foot here and should have timed her properly. Damn.
With regards to the crank timing, is the mark on the round pulley, or the little cog behind it, because i had that pully off and there were no notches
cheers so far guys
Intrusive means that your engine, WILL bend the valves if the cambelt snaps, of is fitted incorectly, as opposed to a "valve safe"
engine, where there is sufficient clearance between the valves and the pistons, making contact, regardless of the state of the engine impossible
Thom
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Hmm i guessed as much.
When it comes to turning by hand then to check the marks, how can i turn it without damaging the valves in order to time her properly? Because if shes out now, she need turning around to get her straight again?
cheers
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Use the 19mm multi point bolt on crank pulley to turn bottom end, and the bolt on cam pulley to turn top end. If they're well out, you'll need to turn each one a bit att a time until they're not fouling and in sync.How can you do a h/g and not know this?
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Right, I suggest you remover your cam cover and remove all spark plugs and insert a long screwdriver (through the plug hole) into piston 1 (closest to cam belt) and turn either clockwise or anti (with a breaker bar on the crank pully) until she is at the top of her stroke (when the screwdiver is pretruding most). Then see what the hell your cam is doing in position 1 (all 4 valves should be closed but it sounds like this isnt the case at all). If you are lucky and the valves are closed make sure they are also all shut at the valve set for cylinder 3 too. Do this today and tell us your findings, then we can progress in a positive manner.
Oh and for the record, your cousin is a moron of the highest grade.
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Yeh i will have a look probably thursday if not tomorrow and let you know guys.
Also, why is my cousin a moron? theres obviously a reason you decied to tell me that in a mk2 golf tioming post :S
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Yeh i will have a look probably thursday if not tomorrow and let you know guys.
Also, why is my cousin a moron? theres obviously a reason you decied to tell me that in a mk2 golf tioming post :S
Sorry, I thought he was talking you through doing the job, not just with you whilst trying to crank her over apres job. Resume normal service :embarassed:
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Right guys, ive learned a lot about timing now!
I took the cam belt off, turned the cams to TDC, checked the marks on the cam sprocket and the dots on the cams to confirm this.
Then turned the crank to TDC and checked with a screwdriver AND the TDC punch mark on the flywheel to confirm this.
Put the belt on and the flywheel mark moved out of view, so reset it and tried again, this time the flywheel mark is in view but out by about half a centimetre, but IIRC it needs to be a few degrees out anyway, 6 i think?
To be safe i turned her by hand with the belt on and she done a full revolution with no problems, no crunching or anything, she went around fine.
Tried to start her, and she still wont budge.
Any ideas?
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You need to set the pulleys to tdc bang on, top and bottom.. Its the dizzy you set to 6deg's btdc, with a strobe light, timing the ign up to the big diamond mark. The small dot punch is your lower tdc mark to line up with the point on the gearbox casing.
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aah i see, so you think that fraction that the flywheel mark is out is stopping the engine from turning?
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also, how do i lock the flywheel on this model? cant find anything in the haynes