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General => General discussion => Topic started by: bricey on 18 September 2011, 19:15

Title: nitrogen or air
Post by: bricey on 18 September 2011, 19:15
chaps
is there any difference to filling your tyres will air or nitrogen
james
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Diamond Hell on 18 September 2011, 19:17
Yes.  The nitrogen will remain far more consistent when the tyres get hot.

Air will expand and put the pressures up.

ATS in Newport have started doing it, I noticed.  Father got his tyres done a few weeks ago 'at that price I figured why not?'
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: DOA on 18 September 2011, 19:23
On the road, not a single jot. On track, if your a bloody good driver (and adjust your hot pressures accordingly) you might find some benefit. Dont waste your money. BTW, air is approximately 78% nitrogen anyway.......
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Wayne on 18 September 2011, 19:32
I have only ever used air.
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: bricey on 19 September 2011, 07:22
island tyres in lake are doing it as well may give it a bash
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: mwep201081 on 19 September 2011, 16:40
BTW, air is approximately 78% nitrogen anyway.......

And the nitrogen in stations is around 95% nitrogen. I'm no maths genius, but you're not getting a lot more nitrogen TBH.....

I'm an eternal pessimist though and see these things a gimmicks anyway.....
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: T_J_G on 20 September 2011, 12:03
Isnt it free though? Was where I went!
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: danny_p on 20 September 2011, 22:52
for road use its a marketing gimmick. or something you can sell at an amzing profit as pure n2 is cheep.

for nutters doing circuit testing it has its uses as it reduces 1 of the varibles that being tyer pressure so has a use there.

we use it on everything for diffrent reason  N2 cylinders are allways up to pressure  & compressor usally empty  when you want to blow tyers up
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Len on 21 September 2011, 13:06
Gimmick!
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: minimat on 21 September 2011, 16:23
i work in costco sheffields tyre bay and we do it free, if your a costco member just come and it you can have it done for nothing...

however i 1000000% believe that in a road car on a road there is no difference whatsoever! michelin and costco claim all kinds of benefits including better mpg, more stable at speed etc and although scientifically and on paper its true in the real world the difference is negligable.

likewise i race a yamaha tz350 gp bike and what do you think goes in the tyres of that? Air. if there was any benfit i would be using it!

mat
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 22 September 2011, 10:19
Pointless tosh.
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Luke1981 on 22 September 2011, 16:54
Have to agree with all the comments posted - absolute waste of time and money unless you own a F1 car.

The marketing bullsh!t will ramble on about the nitrogen keeping your tyre pressures constant and not expanding and shrinking unlike air! 

When has compressed air ever let anyone down?(excuse the pun) As long as you have good tyres and they are kept at the correct pressure, happy days  :smiley:



Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: MS1COYS on 08 October 2012, 02:16
Gotta agree with DH on this one....


Having always had my tyres nitro inflated on my X-Type and BMW, I've always had the Gti inflated with Nitrogen too, I cannot sing its praises enough.

Not only do you not have to check your pressures for 120 days. But under hard cornering, there is noticeable increased stability in the tyres and braking distances are also reduced. Even if its marginal. I certainly notice the difference. Tyre life is 'supposedly' also increased by up to 25%, although my best guess through testing, is somewhere between 10-15%.....

I get mine inflated at ATS Kingsbridge, Devon (link below). They do it for a £1 a corner. I've never paid, but I usually come armed with doughnuts and/or beer!  :grin: (Maybe the same will work at your garage)

http://www.atseuromaster.co.uk/nitrogen-inflation.htm

Here's a couple of links to back up Nitrogen inflation.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/filling-tyres-with-nitrogen.html  (Sceptics, but still in favour, when used with semi-performance cars)

http://www.vcars.co.uk/news/generic-trend-stories/drivers-urged-to-consider-nitrogen-for-tyres-407.html

And here's a link from the wan kers that are Kwik Fit, that seem to think a mixture of Nitrogen and Oxygen, is what's required to realise the same benefits.

http://www.kwik-fit.com/tyre-technology.asp

Here's a little exert from the AA to completely dismiss their retarded claims and mis-information

"The air we breath (and the normal compressed air used to inflate tyres) contains 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen and 1% other gases but some tyre specialists are now offering - at a premium - to inflate tyres with pure nitrogen."


There are a lot of sceptics that believe that nitrogen is a waste of time. They're wrong!

The reason for their scepticism, is that the normal air we breathe (as quoted above), consists of 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen and thus simply increasing the nitrogen level by a futher 21%, will make only a minimal difference, if anything atl at all.......This is bullsh!t!

When you have this procedure completed, your tyres will be purged to 0.5-1psi, thus completely deflated and extracted of oxygen, then re-inflated with 100% pure nitrogen (which is stored in a canister at 2000psi+ to retain it's longevity and effectiveness).

I'd be glad to hear from others that have or currently use nitrogen, to see if they have the same ethos as me.

Thanks for reading.

Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Agreeable Slick on 08 October 2012, 09:17
:laugh: :laugh: - On road cars.... little to no benefit except it lines pockets of garages, and means the forgetful motorist can not bother about their tyre pressures for that little bit longer.

Reduced braking distances? :grin: Righto. That's a function of friction, velocity and weight, not what you fill your tyres with. N2 in your tyres will not make the brakes work better.

The benefit of it is that it is relatively unaffected by temperature thus the nominal pressure in the tyre does not change quite as much as with "air", example: check the tyre profile in contact with the ground of your car in the morning, and then once you've driven it for 10+ miles it will have reduced due to tyre heating the air and pressure rising. Less noticable with N2.

Oh and also, it's stored in a pressurised canister as that's the most efficient way to transport it, not to increase the "longevity and effectiveness". High pressure = larger volume = smaller container required to store it.

HTH's.

Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: tweed on 08 October 2012, 10:45
It's just more stable.
I use low volume magnesium wheels so that there's less air to expand meaning my tyres stay at optimum tempiture for longer.
Alloy wheels will give me no grip until up to temp, then plenty of grip to set 2/3 fast laps then due to the extra air they get too hot and go off.
N2 just slows it down even more. So I can put 1/2 psi more than air to get tyres up to temp faster but it will stay on temp until the end of race.

I might only gain 0.5 in a race distance but that could be a win in my eyes
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Khare on 08 October 2012, 11:18
It's just more stable.
I use low volume magnesium wheels so that there's less air to expand meaning my tyres stay at optimum tempiture for longer.
Alloy wheels will give me no grip until up to temp, then plenty of grip to set 2/3 fast laps then due to the extra air they get too hot and go off.
N2 just slows it down even more. So I can put 1/2 psi more than air to get tyres up to temp faster but it will stay on temp until the end of race.

I might only gain 0.5 in a race distance but that could be a win in my eyes

where do you by yours to take to the track? I'd like to try some, using a 12v car tyre inflater at the moment.
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: tweed on 08 October 2012, 18:03
It's just more stable.
I use low volume magnesium wheels so that there's less air to expand meaning my tyres stay at optimum tempiture for longer.
Alloy wheels will give me no grip until up to temp, then plenty of grip to set 2/3 fast laps then due to the extra air they get too hot and go off.
N2 just slows it down even more. So I can put 1/2 psi more than air to get tyres up to temp faster but it will stay on temp until the end of race.

I might only gain 0.5 in a race distance but that could be a win in my eyes

where do you by yours to take to the track? I'd like to try some, using a 12v car tyre inflater at the moment.

Christ what pressure you running? I use a bike pump. Lube them up when popping bead on and it should only take 20psi. It's a stand pump.
We fill ours up at a car garage before we go. Just put them to 20psi then set at track.

There's good kits in America for superbikes. Then just fill the tank up at your local gas place.
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: MS1COYS on 08 October 2012, 18:27
:laugh: :laugh: - On road cars.... little to no benefit except it lines pockets of garages, and means the forgetful motorist can not bother about their tyre pressures for that little bit longer.

Well that suits me down to the ground. And at £1 a corner, I'd rather not have to check tyre pressures every month. Not that I'm lazy or anything  :whistle:
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: tweed on 08 October 2012, 18:34
:laugh: :laugh: - On road cars.... little to no benefit except it lines pockets of garages, and means the forgetful motorist can not bother about their tyre pressures for that little bit longer.

Well that suits me down to the ground. And at £1 a corner, I'd rather not have to check tyre pressures every month. Not that I'm lazy or anything  :whistle:

Good set of stainless valves would do that  :wink:
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: MS1COYS on 08 October 2012, 18:38
:laugh: :laugh: - On road cars.... little to no benefit except it lines pockets of garages, and means the forgetful motorist can not bother about their tyre pressures for that little bit longer.

Well that suits me down to the ground. And at £1 a corner, I'd rather not have to check tyre pressures every month. Not that I'm lazy or anything  :whistle:

Good set of stainless valves would do that  :wink:

Got stainless valves, even got little stainless valve caps with Gti printed on them....sad or what  :smiley:
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Khare on 08 October 2012, 19:22
It's just more stable.
I use low volume magnesium wheels so that there's less air to expand meaning my tyres stay at optimum tempiture for longer.
Alloy wheels will give me no grip until up to temp, then plenty of grip to set 2/3 fast laps then due to the extra air they get too hot and go off.
N2 just slows it down even more. So I can put 1/2 psi more than air to get tyres up to temp faster but it will stay on temp until the end of race.

I might only gain 0.5 in a race distance but that could be a win in my eyes

where do you by yours to take to the track? I'd like to try some, using a 12v car tyre inflater at the moment.

Christ what pressure you running? I use a bike pump. Lube them up when popping bead on and it should only take 20psi. It's a stand pump.
We fill ours up at a car garage before we go. Just put them to 20psi then set at track.

There's good kits in America for superbikes. Then just fill the tank up at your local gas place.
9-13PSI, depending on track conditions and weather. Reason I use the 12v one is cos it's quick.
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: tweed on 08 October 2012, 19:58
About same as me I do go lower on a hot day but then our tyres are stickier than the mojo's

That's what my mate said so we had a bet lol lets just say I one  :grin:

Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: 75chrisc on 09 October 2012, 23:13
... now I thought it was... (as well as the reasons above!)

nitrogen molecules are bigger than air (oxygen) and so therefore.... did not leak out of the tyre/rim/valve/structure as easily.... :undecided:

Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: MS1COYS on 10 October 2012, 01:30
... now I thought it was... (as well as the reasons above!)

nitrogen molecules are bigger than air (oxygen) and so therefore.... did not leak out of the tyre/rim/valve/structure as easily.... :undecided:

You're right and with stainless valves you can go 6 months without heckling pressures. In the winter/early spring I run 32psi Nitro and in the summer/autumn I run 35psi.....works a treat. But views are polarised on this thread.....
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: danny_p on 10 October 2012, 21:46
today i'm mostly running argon filled tyers .

what are the thoughts on argon over nitrogen then ?
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Sam on 10 October 2012, 23:28
I put hundreds and thousands in my tyres before sealing them as it ruffles the air and keeps it cooler and more stable
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: danny_p on 10 October 2012, 23:55
well my experiments havn't got that far yet i've tryed the following gases and mixtures in the truck at various points


air
N2
C02
C02 / N2          aka beer gas
AR
AR / C02          aka  coogar 25
AR / C02 / 02    aka arcshield light
02
He / AR
He

anyone notice a common theme ?

as for differances in performance  as far as truck was concirend they were all the same bar the last two,    helium dosent like been in tyers and f**ks off  a bit quick   



Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: Agreeable Slick on 11 October 2012, 09:56
I reckon you'll be needing to try Krypton or Xenon next then to make a complete set :lipsrsealed:

You could give Chlorine a go - I await the results, and pictures of mangled metal.
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: MS1COYS on 11 October 2012, 11:48
I reckon you'll be needing to try Krypton or Xenon next then to make a complete set :lipsrsealed:

You could give Chlorine a go - I await the results, and pictures of mangled metal.

Brilliant  :grin:
Title: Re: nitrogen or air
Post by: danny_p on 11 October 2012, 21:34
I reckon you'll be needing to try Krypton or Xenon next then to make a complete set :lipsrsealed:

You could give Chlorine a go - I await the results, and pictures of mangled metal.

krypton or xenon are probaly a littel expensive. and it's not like i have cylinders of them standing around in the workshop or truck that been common factors with the other gases that have been used.   a cyl at 200 bar is a  damb sight more effective at  getting beads to reseat that an airline at 150 psi