GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: N900 MJT on 07 September 2011, 14:08
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Hi All
Has any one got any info on how to do the engine swap with a 1.8T lump? Have been looking about but cant find anything with any detail on!
Also does anyone know if the front engine mouting points are the same ??
Cheers
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http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=124485.0
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mounting points are the same, you need mk3 16v mounts (not mk2 16v!) the 8v although look similar are not the same
theres a crap load of info on this I dont know what you must of searched for to come back with nothing :P
Its been done by quite a few ppl on here including me so for most questions you have will have there will be someone who knows the answer :)
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Hi Dan
Had a look at the engine last night and its an AGU from a MK4 golf - the mounting points are on the chassis legs in the mk4
What were the main things you had to modify? What intercooler have you used?
Did you do the conversion yourself? How long did it take you?
Cheers in advance
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you need mk3 16v mounts all round and the mounting bracket off the ABF engine to bolt to the AGU, this will then fit on the mk3 mounting point (Drivers side rear)
Use a mk3 16v gearbox, gear linkage and hydro set up, also use the gearbox mounting braket from the 16v car
got my S3 engine in and running in 3 days, took a week before this stripping my car down
car was off the road for a couple of weeks
use a universal front mount intercooler, theirs loads on the bay - something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRONT-MOUNT-UNIVERSAL-INTERCOOLER-GOLF-VW-AUDI-TURBO-/190377113885?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c535c391d
will need to source the piping for this but thats no biggie
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check out the build threads in the vw related section - dub rides.
mines on page 5 or something, I gave up updating it but will be updating soon and everything regarding my conversion is in there, there are also some other good reads in there, kells (F17 BAD) has a good thread in there and Lazylunatic as well although very long and full of a lot of stuff you dont need :P think his conversion starts on around page 30
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Cheers guys - i will check out the build threads.
I already have the gearbox that came with the car so would rather use that than having to buy another gearbox - can i not just adapt the current mount to fit the mk3?
I have everything that comes with a MK4 as the guy had a side impact and has sold me whats left of the car (not much) but has everything for the conversion minus the intercooler!
Will i have to take out the entire wiring loom from the mk3 of can i leave it in?
Cheers
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I am doing a 1.8T conversion on one of my mk3s but I will be using OEM management so I wont have to spend £800 on a loom from qpeng.
This will involve combining both mk3 and mk4 looms.
You will need a mk3 16v gearbox, an 8v both would last about 20 seconds with a 1.8t attached to it. :laugh:
Yes you will need to remove the whole engine loom from your car but its an easy job really.
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Why cant i use the gearbox that comes with this engine?
Basically I have brought a MK4 that was in a side impact and the guy just wants rid of the whole car (or whats left of it, no seats, wheels or front hubs) everything else is on the car - plus it has had the G60 flywheel and VR clutch in!
I have all the Mk4 engine (AGU) gearbox, loom, ecu, clocks and keys - I thought that was everything I needed for the conversion!
I would rather not have to shell out more money on another gearbox on top of what i have already paid!
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you can use an 02j box (1.8t box) but this woud mean fitting an 02j shifter (which you will have if you have the mk4), the reason people use the 02a is the 02j box's generally dont have very good ratios for the mk3. someone with the same engine and an 02a box will feel like a faster car. the 02j shifter is the better shifter though, it gives smoother gear changes and is generally a better design
you should check out www.clubgti.com they have a dedicated 1.8t section in their engine section and it has a lot of info plus very knowegable people to answer questions :) (nothing against anyone here! a lot of the ppl here are on there as well:P)
One thing you will need to do is get your mk3 loom modified together with the mk4 loom like madmanmart says, there are people who will do this for a fee, or there is a guide on clubgti if you fancy having a go at it yourself or just seeing whats involved, its a guide for the mk2 but the mk3 uses the same ce2 fusebox so its all pretty much the same
yo will also need some other bits and pieces, the standard 8v exhaust will be too restricting for a 1.8t, the standard cat wont last 2 seconds either and will also be very restricting so advise getting a mk4 cat or a sports cat (I used a universal hoffman sports car for £100) also will need a custom downpipe, qpeng do one for £200 (!) or you can get one made up, if you go down that route you could also get a custom exhaust with cat done so it all fits properly and you wont have headaches later on
there will be a million things you either forget or didnt think of when you come round to doing the work so best advise I can give is do a lot of research and triple check everything is ready before you start work :smiley:
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Why cant i use the gearbox that comes with this engine?
Basically I have brought a MK4 that was in a side impact and the guy just wants rid of the whole car (or whats left of it, no seats, wheels or front hubs) everything else is on the car - plus it has had the G60 flywheel and VR clutch in!
I have all the Mk4 engine (AGU) gearbox, loom, ecu, clocks and keys - I thought that was everything I needed for the conversion!
I would rather not have to shell out more money on another gearbox on top of what i have already paid!
Sorry I miss read what was said, yes you can use the 02J box from the mk3 (I was thinking an mk3 8v box). Although you will need a mk3 hydro clutch setup to run the box.
I have the choice of both boxes but opted for the 02a due to its ratios.
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Cheers for the advice guys - I'm sure I will post up more questions as I have them!! I'm guessing that I could transplant the clutch frOm the mk4 into the 3 so I can keep the hydro clutch?!?
I have an aftermarket exhaust already and have a 2.5 decat in place - plus I need a new Downpipe anyway so am talk to my mate who is a welder to sort me out some custom pipework!
Did you guys fit different clocks?
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if you get the wiring done properly you dont need to touch the clocks, only wiring that needs modifying is from the fusebox to the engine
regarding the clutch setup no you cant use the mk4 one, you need the mk3 16v setup. you need the master and slave clutch cylinders and all the pipework, and probably a new clutch pedal clip as well as you will 99% of the time break the old one. its something like 3 or 4 pound from vw for the clip, best bet for the clutch parts is a breakers or message ppl breaking their 16v
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Cheers for the advice guys - I'm sure I will post up more questions as I have them!! I'm guessing that I could transplant the clutch frOm the mk4 into the 3 so I can keep the hydro clutch?!?
I have an aftermarket exhaust already and have a 2.5 decat in place - plus I need a new Downpipe anyway so am talk to my mate who is a welder to sort me out some custom pipework!
Did you guys fit different clocks?
You will need mk3 16v clocks too, 8v ones will be too lows revs.
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Cheers for the help guys - I'm sure I will be coming to you for more!
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Cheers for the advice guys - I'm sure I will post up more questions as I have them!! I'm guessing that I could transplant the clutch frOm the mk4 into the 3 so I can keep the hydro clutch?!?
I have an aftermarket exhaust already and have a 2.5 decat in place - plus I need a new Downpipe anyway so am talk to my mate who is a welder to sort me out some custom pipework!
Did you guys fit different clocks?
You will need mk3 16v clocks too, 8v ones will be too lows revs.
I have 8v ones in mine they are fine, 8v gti though dunno if the lower 8v clocks are different?
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8v clocks wil work but i got rid and replaced with the same type but in 16v format (silver anniversary) took some hunting to find those :nerd:
the 16v clocks are very close (if not the same) readings as the S3 which my engine is from
its not something thats needed but i just wanted to swap mine out
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If it makes life easier then I think i will go on the hunt for a set of 16v clocks
I have been looking into the wiring diagrames on CGTI and it is very informative and i think i am going to try and do it myself
Does the AGU lump have multiple mouting points on it? You guys have said put the 16v mouns on it but they are at different locations to the mouting points in the MK4
I cant wait to do this now - looking forward to the power!
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starter motors are in the same place and the front 16v bracket bolts on with the starter using the same bolt holes, so thats the same place as 16v.
The AGU will also have 4 bolt holes on the rear with nothing in them that the rear bracket can bolt to, its almost like vw want us to do the conversion :P you may need to push a bit of braided piping out the way but its a pretty minor issue
All that needs modifying regarding mounting the engine really is removing the old mk4 side mount which is just a couple of heavy duty bolts
If you get stuck with the wiring try sending rubjonny a pm, he's made quite a few looms for other people and is always ready to help out others.
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Cheers Dan - yer have seen Jonnys name plastered all over club gti regarding the wiring stuff! If I am lucky he may even be looking at the thread sometime!!
Ok so shopping list now has the 16v front and rear engine mounts (guessing 8v are not up to the job)
Is there anything on my 8v that I need to keep or can I "bin" most of it?
What mount do you guys recommend for the gearbox (I'm going to guess at 16v!!)
Also which brakes are you guys now running? Was thinking about the EBC pads and discs
Is it also worth putting the mk4 rear calipers on?
Cheers Mitch
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engine mounts:
front - 8v and 16v are exactly the same part number, so get a new one of those
same applies for the gearbox.passenger side mount so get a new one of those too]
drivers side rear mount is different on 16v and this is the one you want so get a new one of them
you need the engine side mount bracket for the drivers rear engine off a 16v car engine code ABF
it looks like this:
Left is the audi S3 mount bracket (bolts to side of engine)
Right side s the ABF mount bracket (bolts to rear of 1.8T block - the holes are their ready- cheers to VW/audi)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8426/imagekgl.jpg)
you also need the gearbox from a 16v abf car and the little mounting bracket for that too.
you need the front metal bracket from the ABF engine and Gearbox that joins it to the front engine mount (the 8v one comes off)
thats all you need mount wise
if you can do a deal with somebody breaking a ABF 16v golf mk3 get the gearbox, the 3 brackets iv mentioned above and the hydraulic set up/ gear shift lever/mech.. should cost you about £200 for that lot unless you get a 16v car to break yourself like did
brakes are fine as long as you are running a GTI, iv got a 250 bhp S3 lump in mne which is still undergoing its custom map, my brakes are more than fine and just run mintex discs and pads
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Cheers Kells - I though I could use the gearbox that is already attached to the 1.8T lump - all that is needed is the hydro setup!
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and the 1.8t shifter with cables :)
thinking about it now I think I remember kells s3 engine is electronic throttle the same as mine, however your AGU will be cable throttle so you will have to do some modification to that as well.
I think you just swap over the 8v throttle body and find a suitable throttle cable (some mk2 ones fit i think?) but someone else will have to answer that one as I've no experience with cable throttle 1.8t's :)
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Cheers Kells - I though I could use the gearbox that is already attached to the 1.8T lump - all that is needed is the hydro setup!
i wouldnt use mk4 gearbox.. you need to do some welding of brakets to use it plus (dont quote me on this) but they are heavy as a mofo
id go with Box from a ABF.. i went through all this when i did mine.. end of the day its your party tho :smiley:
cable throttle you use the 8v throttle body and the cabel from some other car like dan mentions.. think my old 8v one might have just been long enough when we measured but again i cant really say as mine is electronic throttle
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I drive a mk3 - weight is the last thing I am worried about! :grin:
I will talk to my mate and see if he wants the task of doing the welding - I know he enjoys that sort of thing !
Payment has now cleared so i will be picking it up soon and will post some pics up when i can
Cheers for all the info so far guys
Mitch
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MK3 is not that heavy mate... its mk4 onwards that were heavy. dont listen to the internet hype
if you are going to the trouble of power hunting you may aswell get the best out of it what you can, so saving weight will make you faster
as i say its your party.. keep us posted how you get on :smiley:
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I was under the impression the ABF gearbox gearing ratios better suited the mk3 shell as well.
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Cheers for the advice guys - but currently the bank balance is controlling what i do!
If i had the money then I would be straight on with getting another gearbox
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i was up my local pub the other day and over the road there is a second hand dealer and he had a audi a4 2.8 on a v reg,so off i went to have a look and i wanted to hear it fired up.the noise that thing made blew me away...
just thinking you get lots of people saying about doing 2.8vr6 conversions and its not really worth it due to the fact prob easy to buy one,but at the same time why wack a 1.8t mk4 in a mk3 when you could buy a mk4turbo nice and pretty..
so is a 1.8t in a mk3 quicker then a standed mk4 1.8t?
is a mk3 vr6 quicker then a mk4 1.8t? :undecided:
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1.8t in a mk 3 is alot faster than in the lardy mk4
my S3 engine (which is also on the 1.8T platform but alot higher output) in mine would blow you away. it is brutal as f**k. infact iv never driven a car as fast (had all sorts) t is just pure insanity all the way through the rev range and im loving it
when we put the S3 lump in mine and tested it, (Before my custom map) it was night and day faster than a VR6.. we absolutly abliterated one on a duel carriageway :grin:
id say VR6 mk3 would beat a standard non mapped mk4 1.8T
thing is the 1.8T is easy to modify and even in a mk4 you can make them fast.. Iv had mk4's and im board of them where as i never get board of the mk3 i have.. its each to their own but i personally much prefer the mk3. its nice too have the pace in it that the car deserves
if VR6 is the sound you want, then you will be needing a turbo to match the pace you can get with the 1.8T :smiley:
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I was under the impression the ABF gearbox gearing ratios better suited the mk3 shell as well.
True, bloody perfection mate, i might add the VR6 final drive into mine when i fit a LSD (in the new year)
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1.8t in a mk 3 is alot faster than in the lardy mk4
my S3 engine (which is also on the 1.8T platform but alot higher output) in mine would blow you away. it is brutal as f**k. infact iv never driven a car as fast (had all sorts) t is just pure insanity all the way through the rev range and im loving it
when we put the S3 lump in mine and tested it, (Before my custom map) it was night and day faster than a VR6.. we absolutly abliterated one on a duel carriageway :grin:
id say VR6 mk3 would beat a standard non mapped mk4 1.8T
thing is the 1.8T is easy to modify and even in a mk4 you can make them fast.. Iv had mk4's and im board of them where as i never get board of the mk3 i have.. its each to their own but i personally much prefer the mk3. its nice too have the pace in it that the car deserves
if VR6 is the sound you want, then you will be needing a turbo to match the pace you can get with the 1.8T :smiley:
ive seen your utube video mate and must say what a outstanding job!did you put up a build thread on here? as would love to have a good read up on how you done it all...im torn on which way to go with mine as its been sitting on my drive for the last 6months doing nothing! but think you have have answed my question! outstanding job fella :wink:
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thanks mate i appreciate that :wink: :smiley:
the massive build thread is here, this is from day 1 but its a big thread
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=79957.0
conversion of engine starts here on page 91
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=79957.900
absolutely lots to read, i have a zillion more pics than what were uploaded to the forums too
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Mine is just a standard AUM 150bhp, not even as powerfull as the AGU which is 180bhp (though imo its a better engine) and even that blows other mk4 1.8ts out the water. The fastest car thats properly tried to have a go with me is a focus st, and I blew that away also, was pretty even up to about 40-50 but the AUM just kept pulling when the st slowed
I'm not bragging as I got no real clue how fast st's are, but it put a smile on my face :P this was on my way to work and it turned out we both worked in the same terminal so he parked next to me and asked what it was :smug:
All i've done to mine is stage 1 map, jetex 16v system, sports cat, cold air induction, coldside dv relocation. Again I have no real clue as to how much difference this has made as I never drove it standard, all I know is its fast as f**k and a lot of fun :grin:
Anyway back on topic, there is a good list of gearbox codes and ratios etc on clubgti, the 16v 02a (DFQ) is obviously better suited to the mk3 shell as its from a mk3, its also imo the best ratioed (is that a word?) 02a box or even 02j
As I said before though, if you ever do get an 02a, try and fit it with an 02j shift tower and an 02j shifter, its so much smoother and feels a lot nicer than the 02a.
I saw kells saying welding is needed to fit the 02j, but I'm not sure if thats right? Apologies if I'm wrong but I think I remember asking the same thing when I was doing mine and was told its just a straight swap the only bos that wouldnt fit was the vr6 as its different bell housing?
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Mine is just a standard AUM 150bhp, not even as powerfull as the AGU which is 180bhp (though imo its a better engine) and even that blows other mk4 1.8ts out the water. The fastest car thats properly tried to have a go with me is a focus st, and I blew that away also, was pretty even up to about 40-50 but the AUM just kept pulling when the st slowed
I'm not bragging as I got no real clue how fast st's are, but it put a smile on my face :P this was on my way to work and it turned out we both worked in the same terminal so he parked next to me and asked what it was :smug:
All i've done to mine is stage 1 map, jetex 16v system, sports cat, cold air induction, coldside dv relocation. Again I have no real clue as to how much difference this has made as I never drove it standard, all I know is its fast as f**k and a lot of fun :grin:
Anyway back on topic, there is a good list of gearbox codes and ratios etc on clubgti, the 16v 02a (DFQ) is obviously better suited to the mk3 shell as its from a mk3, its also imo the best ratioed (is that a word?) 02a box or even 02j
As I said before though, if you ever do get an 02a, try and fit it with an 02j shift tower and an 02j shifter, its so much smoother and feels a lot nicer than the 02a.
I saw kells saying welding is needed to fit the 02j, but I'm not sure if thats right? Apologies if I'm wrong but I think I remember asking the same thing when I was doing mine and was told its just a straight swap the only bos that wouldnt fit was the vr6 as its different bell housing?
what has happened to yuor build thread dan! its seems to have stopped?
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I stopped when I realised the only person reading it was me :P
I'd like to keep it going but once I went back to work I found less and less time for the car and the updates were so small I thought 'I'll wait till I get more done to update', then I just got lazy I guess :grin:
I'll be updating soon though, done quite a bit since the last update and also gonna be editing my pcv, fitting a catch can, and removing some brake booster lines to make the engine bay more presentable. I've also removed that pants bodykit that I for some reason thought looked good lol
update will be within the next month I hope :cool:
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thanks mate i appreciate that :wink: :smiley:
the massive build thread is here, this is from day 1 but its a big thread
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=79957.0
conversion of engine starts here on page 91
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=79957.900
absolutely lots to read, i have a zillion more pics than what were uploaded to the forums too
Kells, did you do the wiring yourself?
Or is it running 'qpend'?
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yeah! i would like a bit more info on the wiring side of things..looks like you just ripped out the old loom and replaced with the complete s3 loom :smiley:
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thanks mate i appreciate that :wink: :smiley:
the massive build thread is here, this is from day 1 but its a big thread
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=79957.0
conversion of engine starts here on page 91
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=79957.900
absolutely lots to read, i have a zillion more pics than what were uploaded to the forums too
Kells, did you do the wiring yourself?
Or is it running 'qpend'?
No Qpeng stuff going anywhere near my car ever!!, we used Audi ECU and Loom.
Doing a MK2 - 1.8T conversion using AUM in a few weeks and doing the same, factory ECU. its the best way by far because manufacturesr dont soend $$$$$$ developing it for no reason
Vagcom hooks up to mine as normal and i can run MK3 clocks, and the MFA computer works as normal. its basically as tho the engine came in the car from new
Andyout on CGTI is really good for looms, he can defeat the immobiliser too which needs to be done
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yeah! i would like a bit more info on the wiring side of things..looks like you just ripped out the old loom and replaced with the complete s3 loom :smiley:
its the full S3 engine side loom, engine harness loom and ECU
the engine loom basically replaces the old GTI one, this plugs into the fuse box.. you do need the old loom tho for certain connectors.. a bit of splicing is whats done.. (basically what Qpeng do but badly and then use their own Management)
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I also used original aum ecu, qpeng can go f**k themselves, £1000 for inferior management isnt worth it imo :laugh:
I got rubjonny to do my loom and topher for all the ecu stuff (immob defeat, mapping, etc) all in all the whole management cost me £375, and same as kells I still have vagcom, mfa, and original mk3 clocks :)
people can rave about qpeng all they want but all you have to do is check the CGTI 1.8t forum to see how many ppl have problems with it
If you wanna give the wiring a go yourself check this out, its for a mk2 but has the same ce2 fusebox as a mk3 http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205887 (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205887)
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All fantastic info guys! I do plan on doing the wiring myself as I have everything already!!
Now i just need to get someone to move it so i can start working on it!!!
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I would avoid qpeng and run the factory set up if you can. :smiley:
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Cheers Wayne - I plan on using the factory setup as I have read all sorts of things about how rubbish qpeng is!
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Cheers Wayne - I plan on using the factory setup as I have read all sorts of things about how rubbish qpeng is!
:cool: Good luck with it.
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Thanks - looking forward to the challenge!
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Right going to dig this back up - Picked up the engine on saturday with a shell attached (thats the way im looking at it)
Will the mk4 driveshafts fit the mk3 hubs or the otherway - will the mk3 driveshafts fit inside the mk4 gearbox?
Going to start sripping what is left of the car to help fund this!!
Cheers
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Mk4 driveshaft won't fit afaik but mk3 will fit the 02j box. You will also need the starter from an abf (mk3 16v) to bolt to the box and engine bracket
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16V Golf MK3 long drive shaft is needed to fit the 02a/02j boxes.
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just forget the mk4 box idea. you can get a mk3 16v box cheap! and its the best route to take, mk4 box heavy and needs modifications
sell it on recoup the cash
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16V Golf MK3 long drive shaft is needed to fit the 02a/02j boxes.
Im using standard 8v driveshafts on my 02a
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16V Golf MK3 long drive shaft is needed to fit the 02a/02j boxes.
Im using standard 8v driveshafts on my 02a
Humm I was told you needed the 16v driveshafts as the dif on the 02a was longer? :undecided: Can some one else confirm If I need to buy them?
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16V Golf MK3 long drive shaft is needed to fit the 02a/02j boxes.
Im using standard 8v driveshafts on my 02a
Humm I was told you needed the 16v driveshafts as the dif on the 02a was longer? :undecided: Can some one else confirm If I need to buy them?
I think your right, better to use them in any case as they are stronger (thicker) I believe.
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16V Golf MK3 long drive shaft is needed to fit the 02a/02j boxes.
Im using standard 8v driveshafts on my 02a
Humm I was told you needed the 16v driveshafts as the dif on the 02a was longer? :undecided: Can some one else confirm If I need to buy them?
I think your right, better to use them in any case as they are stronger (thicker) I believe.
I believed they were all 100mm on the GTIs and most TDIs?
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GTI driveshafts are all same. Mine is on the original 8v ones
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Cheers for the input guys - going to be dropping the engine and box out of the mk4 this weekend ready to delete the PVC system and N249 valve (i think its that) and also the SIA pipework
Next on the list is to try and shift some parts from the mk4 to get a little bit of my money back!
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lol pvc :P pcv = positive crackcase ventilation, you cant really delete it but it can be simplified and a common mod is putting a catch can in the system to catch all the oily crap
you may mean the evap system? that can be deleted and is mainly junk especially on a mk3, same as the sai (secondary air injection) its just to heat the cat up faster from cold starts
things that can be deleted with no consequences (other than some codes) are n249 n112 and evap
check this thread on vwvortex clicky (http://'http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3111538-DIY-Cleaning-up-Engine-bay...Removing-SAI-N249-PCV-EVAP')
and these howto vids (http://'http://www.bysavko.com/video/diys/') made by the same guy, just the first 2 are for the 1.8t. theres no catch can install vid yet but the first 2 vids are awesome info. I know the first one is an hour long, trust me watch it all it will guide you though the whole process of removing n249 n112 and the evap, and the 2nd vid guides you through simplifying the brake booster pipework and making the engine bay look tidier
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Is the rear gearbox mount (passenger side) different for the ABF 02a gearbox from the 8v 020 box?
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Is the rear gearbox mount (passenger side) different for the ABF 02a gearbox from the 8v 020 box?
do you mean the braket or the mount itself ?
the braket is different (as you saw on mine)
the actual mount is the same.. the only mount thatsa different on the ABF is the drivers side, the other 2 are the same part number on both ABF and 8v cars
VR6 has same 2 rear ones as 8V but a different front mount part number
hope this helps
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Is the rear gearbox mount (passenger side) different for the ABF 02a gearbox from the 8v 020 box?
do you mean the braket or the mount itself ?
the braket is different (as you saw on mine)
the actual mount is the same.. the only mount thatsa different on the ABF is the drivers side, the other 2 are the same part number on both ABF and 8v cars
VR6 has same 2 rear ones as 8V but a different front mount part number
hope this helps
Spot on. Got confused over the rear engine on that isn't present on the 8v but on the 16v.
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i basically bought 3 new ones (my old ones were mint and now live on bens Red car)
As i say, only the drivers rear one is a different part number.. the TDI and ABF use this item.. other 2 are same as 8v.. you need this set up
it was around 200 quid at the main dealer for all 3. i think you can get them at Eurocarparts from about 120 all in (or maybe you could get that mate to get you them at cost price ? )
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Just bought the rear box mount from TPS £22.54 (357199353A)
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you talking mounts right not brakets? I used VR6 mounts all round from tierod69 on ebay £50 for all 3 :afro:
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No the brackets that go onto the mounts.
you talking mounts right not brakets? I used VR6 mounts all round from tierod69 on ebay £50 for all 3 :afro:
Oh link please?
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FORGET cheap mounts
and use the 16v items adam mate :wink:
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all mounts are the same shape, vr6 used to be more heavy duty but now they are ask the same (or at least febi ones are) tierod is a great seller its all oe spec, the mounts I got of him were febi
Its up to you though some people don't trust cheap sellers, tierods a well known seller in the vw community though :)
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No need for vr one on front of the 20v lump tho. The drivers rear one on vr6 is NOT heavy duty like it is on the 16v and TDI. vr6 uses same as 8v on both rears because most the Weigjt is over the front. It's not the case for the 20vt so I'd deffo go the 16v route but it's up u guys at the end of the day :nerd:
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Right then - digging this back out as no need to start another thread!!
Since looking at doing this project the funds have come available for me to do it right the first time so I am going to take your advice and get the abf box!
What gearbox code do I need to look for? or is it just any 2.0L 16v gearbox with hydro clutch and cable gear change?
Also I will be posting pics of the turbo and inlet manifold so you can all see the cleaning progress!
Cheers
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all 02a box's are cable change hydro clutch, you want to look at the ratios more than what car they came out of. The CDA/DPA box's are fine in a 16v but that is an NA engine with low torque and so the ratios are set out to give the best performance for that engine.
The 20vt is a turbo with LOADS of torque especially when put into a mk3 so you want a box designed for a car with more torque, which as far as the 02a goes is an ASD box from a 1.9 TDi. There are other more expensive options but I think if you ask around or do some google searches a majority of people will steer you towards an ASD box
have a read of the transmission faq over on clubgti if you want more insight into gearbox ratios etc :)
here is a post tshirt2k when we were discussing which was better suited DPA(abf) box or ASD
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/tshirt2k/ABF-ASD_box.jpg)
I did max revs at 6500 and 195/50-15 tyres. Your car may not be able to pull 6500rpm in top.
This is using Quaife calc
Gearbox:- ASD
Tyre:- 195/50-15
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Top Gear gives 29.811 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 193.770 MPH at 6500 RPM
Engine speeds in top gear:-
30 MPH = 1006 RPM 40 MPH = 1342 RPM 50 MPH = 1677 RPM 60 MPH = 2013 RPM
70 MPH = 2348 RPM 80 MPH = 2684 RPM 90 MPH = 3019 RPM 100 MPH = 3354 RPM
Top Speed in 1 gear = 42.101 MPH
And changes into 2 gear at 3829 RPM dropping 2671 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 71.468 MPH
And changes into 3 gear at 4373 RPM dropping 2127 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 106.218 MPH
And changes into 4 gear at 5114 RPM dropping 1386 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 135.017 MPH
And changes into 5 gear at 4529 RPM dropping 1971 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 193.770 MPH
******************************************************************************************
Gearbox:- ABF
Tyre:- 195/50-15
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Top Gear gives 21.914 MPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 142.444 MPH at 6500 RPM
Engine speeds in top gear:-
30 MPH = 1369 RPM 40 MPH = 1825 RPM 50 MPH = 2282 RPM 60 MPH = 2738 RPM
70 MPH = 3194 RPM 80 MPH = 3651 RPM 90 MPH = 4107 RPM 100 MPH = 4563 RPM
Top Speed in 1 gear = 36.129 MPH
And changes into 2 gear at 3829 RPM dropping 2671 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 61.330 MPH
And changes into 3 gear at 4373 RPM dropping 2127 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 91.151 MPH
And changes into 4 gear at 5114 RPM dropping 1386 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 115.865 MPH
And changes into 5 gear at 5287 RPM dropping 1213 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 142.444 MPH
******************************************************************************************
As you can see from the numbers you will get a lot more out of the engine with the ASD box, though it looks like 5th gear will be very long some might say too long. I thought about this when fitting it but once in that all went out the window, its so much nicer to drive :) 1st-4th are pretty much the same as 1st-5th in the DPA box, and he ASD 5th is a nice cruising gear. You can see with the DPA you will be at 100mph in 5th at 4563rpm, whereas with the ASD you will be at 100 at only 3354rpm, thats a big difference! Plenty of times I've been cruising along the m25 in 4th and suddenly realise I've got a whole other gear :cool:
the numbers above might be a bit unrealistic as I dont know about you but I never go to 6500rpm, but if you get the ratios from any box on the clubgti transmission faq and put them into a gear ratio calc you can set your own rev limits etc and get your own results :)
reading this back to myself it may seem im being a bit biased towards the diesel box, but I had the DPA box in mine for 7 months and loved it before changing to the ASD box, and the difference really is enough to say it was like doing the conversion over again :cool:
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Thanks Dan - That info if great!
If I have read this correctly then you would have put the ASD box from the diesel on first time round?
If thats the case then I can get hold of that box very easily! Does the diesel box really drop the revs in 5th?
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if you mean on the graph, thats just done using a calc with the ratios from both box's buts its pretty accurate to real figures, and yes they really do make that much difference :)
with the 16v DPA box the torque is insane, wheel spins in 3rd in the dry are very doable :P it was almost enough to put me off fast get offs etc as 90% of the time I'd be getting unwanted wheel spin. The ASD box from a diesel is still more than capable of putting the power down but feels a lot more controlled and you wont be wheel spinning half as much when you don't want to (but just as much when you do :wink:)
the gears in the ASD are taller than the DPA so the revs go further. For a realistic example when I go to work I usually sit somewhere between 70-80 on the m25, with the DPA I was at around 4000-4500 revs and when giving it a blast to 90 for a few seconds the engine would start screaming. With the ASD 70-80 sits happily just under 3000 revs and if I feel the need to put my foot down it never goes above 3500, much nicer to drive :) and still feels just as quick on fast driving around town etc you just might find yourself needing to change down to overtake every now and then where you woudnt of needed to with the DPA, but tbh I still rarely find myself needing to change down
If you have the choice of any 02a box I would definitely recommend the diesel ASD box :) I think its also popular to fit the ASD with a DPA 5th gear so it isnt so long but I dont know much about that, I've been more than happy with the standard ASD
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Brilliant Info as always mate!
Will be getting the ASD box on payday then :) Im guessing that you can also keep the GTi driveshafts too
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Brilliant Info as always mate!
Will be getting the ASD box on payday then :) Im guessing that you can also keep the GTi driveshafts too
Yes you can :smiley:
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I'm sure i have an 02A DPA on my 20vt,
If i went for an ASD box would my clutch & flywheel carry over no probs?
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yep straight swap
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Still trying to find the correct engine mounts for this :( I have been looking at a few on eBay but I don't know what part numbers I need!
Is this the rear engine mount :- http://bit.ly/vKTgy6
Also what part number is the front mount?
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looks similar but no its not right, numbers starting 199 are mk2 parts mk3 start 1h0. part number for the rear is 1h0 199 354, I'm actually selling a brand new rear bracket on ebay atm that I bought for my conversion last year but never needed it. If you've been looking around on there you probably seen the ad. make an offer if you like its just sitting on the living room floor waiting to be sold :P
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130690903103?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1241
I'll have a look through my paperwork a bit later and see if I can find the part number I bought for mine. cost a bloody fortune from vw!
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1h0 199 273 for the front bracket
going through my receipts my auction price info is wrong, its the front bracket that costs £54, the rear was a bargain at only £41 :grin: unfortunately though I don't have any new ones of these knocking about in the garage :P
found this on ebay though seems a bit cheap! hard to tell from the pics but the part number is right just has a different revision letter, mine is B this one is J
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-New-VW-Seat-Engine-Mount-Bracket-1H0-199-273-J-/330717652505?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4d004ee619#ht_1751wt_990
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Aww man - I dont have any spare cash for a couple of weeks :(
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Ok bringing this back out - So I now have the rear engine mount and an ASD gearbox that I picked up for an amazing £30 :D
Couple of questions really for those who have the ASD box, can you swap out the shift tower to the mk4 item?
thinking while I have the space i will put the TT shifter on
Can you use a mk4 starter motor in the ASD box?
Also is this the correct front engine mount - http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-Golf-3-Vento-Motorhalter-1H0199273E-/120718255980
Everything else is almost sorted
Cheers
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mount looks right I think, mine looks more like this one its the same part number just a different revision
http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-Golf-3-Vento-Polo-Automatik-Motorhalter-1H0199273C-/120718098475?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1c1b5c002b#ht_2841wt_1139
I dont know about a mk4 starter fitting onto an 02a but the mk4 tower definitely fits as I have one along with 02j shifter it all fits fine :)
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Great info as always Dan - been reading loads of posts on club GTi and most of the ones on here and think I am getting to grips with what can/can't be swapped into the mk3 :)
Took your guidance and got the diesel box as I love the sound of the cruising speeds
If the mk4 starter doesnt work then that's just another part on my shopping list :D