GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: tech1889 on 31 August 2011, 23:21
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Been searching the web for info on mk2's with PD conversions and can only find the same thread on 3 or 4 sites from BoraChris and he hasn't updated them for a long time has anyone on here or anyone know any threads about a good diesel conversion please been interested in this for a long time so would like some info.. I know its not the normal conversion but i think its cool 200+BHP and sh!tloads of torque would be cool :smiley:
Any help much appreciated...
Dan
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Drop a pm to: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=10935 I am sure he had one for a while.
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Drop a pm to: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=10935 I am sure he had one for a while.
Yer just read that shame theres no info on the conversion in his build thread :cry:
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Drop a pm to: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=10935 I am sure he had one for a while.
Yer just read that shame theres no info on the conversion in his build thread :cry:
I think it was a ballache in terms of wiring.
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Wiring doesnt bother me i have people that can help with that im more worried about the fitting of engine :smiley:
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Wiring doesnt bother me i have people that can help with that im more worried about the fitting of engine :smiley:
:cool: should be easy enough to mount tbh.
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Wiring doesnt bother me i have people that can help with that im more worried about the fitting of engine :smiley:
:cool: should be easy enough to mount tbh.
Well i am thinking for in the future as it seems a good conversion and would make a great cheap reliable daily :smiley:
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Wiring doesnt bother me i have people that can help with that im more worried about the fitting of engine :smiley:
:cool: should be easy enough to mount tbh.
Well i am thinking for in the future as it seems a good conversion and would make a great cheap reliable daily :smiley:
Sounds like a plan :afro:
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Wiring doesnt bother me i have people that can help with that im more worried about the fitting of engine :smiley:
They'd better be fooking good!
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Why's the wiring so hard ? Is it because of sensors and such It's just a thought for some time in the future..
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I'd be tempted to use the complete loom form the donor and bin the MKII loom.
Nick
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See that was my thinking, well for the engine bay atleast but it's plugging it into a fuse box and such..
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Tech- what about the £10000's spent on the abf setup already??
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Tech- what about the £10000's spent on the abf setup already??
the ABF has cost me about 1400 including the car so not that much im still doing it but im looking for in the future as me and a friend are looking to do a conversion together.. on a different mk2 than mine
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PD conversion probably one of the best for performance and MPG but does sound like a bag of nails.
Would have thought you would need the ECU messed with so it wont run in limp mode?
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Would have thought you would need the ECU messed with so it wont run in limp mode?
ha! 'messed with' I think that's understating it.
You can get around a lot of issues by giving the ECU 'what it wants to see' from the sensors, if you don't want to include them, but the problem is that you need to do pretty much all of them, including things like speed sensors etc, which can't be missed out.
DannyP has been working on one of these for a while.
IIRC the ECU has 150 wires that terminate at it.
It's a great potential conversion, but a lot of work!
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Well I've been lookin at garages near me but nothing at a decent price.. If I can get a garage with electric I will start a conversion with my friend as it sounds great on paper but must be a lot of reasons why no one does the conversion lol I know the ecu can have sensors mapped out of it by companies like RTech but would be easier to run maybe a mk4 dash and clocks to retain some sensors.. Would standalone be ok for a diesel to maybe combat the electrical issues ?
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I've read there's no sensation of speed with the low rpm + short gear ratios. Some guy sold his 300+ bhp diesel and said his abf mk2 'felt' faster...
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I've read there's no sensation of speed with the low rpm + short gear ratios. Some guy sold his 300+ bhp diesel and said his abf mk2 'felt' faster...
I can beleive that ^. Have you considered the traction and torque steer implications of a serious PD engine conversion in a mk2? As DH says, good luck wiring it all up and keeping it happy, modern ECU's are complicated little beasties and I doubt you will get a PD engine running without the stock one.
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^^ Above is partly right ive had a few diesels and its not the sensation is not there its just a different feel as they rev a lot slower and have a lower rev limit.. Its learning and getting used to driving a TDI if you use the torque and keep the turbo spooled up you have lots of power on tap but a lot lower down the rev range they can be sluggish all depends on the map tbh you can still have a liner map thats power all the way but you can all have nothing and then kick you in the back power.. We will see if i can sort a garage out as i think down the line it could be fun..
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the wireing ether isn't as bad as youd think or worse than your worse nightmare depending how you look at it.
there is a lot of wire to deal with a lot of it is 0.35mm2 so it's fiddely and a pita to work with.
the ecu needs to be craked to deal with the immob as no clocks ect = no go once the immob is gone it's a lot easyer.
things that you need to look out for are things like the switches above the brake and clutch pedal. if it thinks your brakeing it won't rev, if it thinks the clutch is down it won't rev out, so you'll be linking a few pins.
joining wires pay much attention to the pin in the ecu connector if it's a gold one you really have to use gold plated crimps else it will ghost faults at you, on some of them they'll ghost if you solder them. ideal solution is replace whole wire.
fitting the engine itself is a piece off piss, some brave pills are needed to do it right tho as you need to strengthen the inner wings and weld in pendulum mounts from a mk4, it really needs the 6 speed box as imo its crap with a 5 speed.
not a nicest conversion to drive in a mk2, yup its quick and uses naff all fuel, drives like a lumphammer as DH would say and its nose heavy. esp with the 6 speed box. recon it'll make the T4 go well tho
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The chap who built the first PD mk2 golf finished it then sold it straight away. It pissed him off that much. Nightmare of a job I hear.
I think they would be better in a corrado tbh. But the 110bhp pre PD lump is very tuneable and straight forward to do
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A7 UFO did one of the early conversions. and sold it soon after completing.
i know it wasent the first tho. as far as i know the first PD conversion is still in the hands of the original owner altho its been off the road for the last couple years due to a rear end shunt. built useing a very young LHD donor iirc that was driveing about in 2000 / 2001. but the guy that built that particular car has a somewhat magor advantage when it comes to doing such conversions on vag cars
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Thanks for the info Danny.. Im not saying im 100% going to do it but i thought it was an option..
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The AAZ or 1Z engine from the 90's VAG's are cheap and from what I read much easier to fit to MK2's than the PD's.
The yanks love these and is what I was hoping to do to my MK2 eventually
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/
:afro:
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The AAZ or 1Z
this.
dead easy swap, bigger turbo and nozzles and you'd out-pace a mapped pd130 conversion.
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What cars would these be from and what sort or power can they easily produce ??
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What cars would these be from and what sort or power can they easily produce ??
see below...
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Correction on above:
Autodata says AAZ was 75bhp, standard TD lump. 1Z was 90bhp TDI lump.
AAZ was fitted to:
Golf 91-98
Passat 91-96
Vento 91-98
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There's a guy/company in the states who modifies the fuel pumps for performance and setup properly with a bigger turbo(VNT :evil: ), uprated injectors as toph said along with an FMIC, seal off the waste gate, metal head gasket (think this only applies to the 1.6 MK2 GTD as the 1.9's metal h/g's as standard iirc) and ARP studs you can see 180-200bhp+ for not a lot of money and agro in comparison to a PD swap, while still being good on fuel. I think they also use a G60/VR6 clutch setup too.
Very different conversion to the ABF/1.8t/VR6 and I think that's why I still want to do something like this when time, garage space and money allow.
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Thanks for the info guys.. Any more info on the engines.. what makes them so easy to swap less sensors ?? VNT Turbo from a pd lump ??
Thanks :smiley: be good to get as much info in one place
Dan
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1Z works ok, in std form they don't rev as high as the earlyer motors
aaz's will tune well but good ones are near unobtanium.
the troublesome T4 started life as a 1.9 NAD. had an AAZ and a 1Z in there turning them up in a van full of heavy welding/spannering kit and that often had a trailer behind it dosent appear to be the worlds best idea ( it ate the bottom ends ) once youve done the usual stuff make a manifold and swap the turbo i robbed the turbo of a LT35 and it seemed to like that, it also seemed to go a lot better with a log manifold i knocked up in the shed.
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if you get one from a mk3 golf they will swap straight over everything wont they ?
what about pd turbos fitted to this engine ?
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Check what mounts they need, I think it's probably from a MK3.
AAZ is straight swap for the most part being a mechanical TD lump if coming from a MK GTD, no silly sensors and no ECU iirc. the 1Z is a TDI so I assume it's more involved but not as silly as a PD, I never really looked into doing it but DH said it would be the better of the two.
Or you can be nuts and do a Franken motor as the yanks call it and mix a 1.5D from a MK1 and 1.6TD from a MK2 (I think you can mix these using a 1.5 block with 1.6 head?) or 1.6TD block with 1.9 AAZ head - try explaining that to an insurance company :grin:
* some info is probably wrong, I half heartedly looked at doing it about 2 years ago knowing I couldn't really do it because I had no garage and my GTD was my daily hack.
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^^ That is interesting but as you say mixing 2 engines from two different mk's would make for a fun conversation with the insurance company..
So let me get this right the AAZ is mechanical injection and no ECU.... And the 1Z engine is a TDI engine with less sensors (likely) than a PD but it has a ECU which makes mapping and such much much easier ??
Dan
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Sommat like that :grin: Sure danny can clear up some info about the 1Z :smiley:
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Sommat like that :grin: Sure danny can clear up some info about the 1Z :smiley:
thanks Jay :smiley:
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Damn you :angry:
got me looking at GTD's again :laugh:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1991-VW-VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-MK2-GTD-TURBO-DIESEL-RED-/170690067886?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item27bdebbdae#ht_500wt_1156
bit suspect about the 'oil cooler' leaking oil into the water :undecided: probably a glown head gasket or crack between the oil and water ways.
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Wouldn't worry about oil cooler just change it and do a coolant and oil flush and would be sweet.. IMO Diesel tuning is turning into the way forward especially with the price of petrol nowadays.. Ive decided what car i want in a few years time when prices reduce.. a BMW 335D 340bhp with just a remap and still 39mpg :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
Sorry Jay im terrible aint i :laugh: :laugh:
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aint u stuck a 20v in my old car yet, do it. or just get a motorbike which is much more fun :cool:
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aint u stuck a 20v in my old car yet, do it. or just get a motorbike which is much more fun :cool:
My one at the moment is going to stay ABF when i get enough time to finish it.. This is for a project i want to do in the future :grin:
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OK, let's go from the GTD forwards.
The SB and RA motors are OK and nice and top-endy, especially for a diesel. 90BHP, but all at the top of the rev range.
They are distinctly more muscular than the standard 1.6TD, but suffer the same weaknesses - the fibre head gasket and also the heads, which spit out the metal between the valves and then crack and let water into the combustion chambers and allow gases to pressurise the coolant.
FAIL.
The AAZ is a nice motor, also surprisingly free-revving, but not in standard form. It's also not intercooled in standard form. Get a cooler on there and put in the boost enrichment pin from an SB or RA motor, turn up the pump and you're rocking on +100bhp and more torque.
Then there's the early electronic TDI - the 1Z. nice little motor, but not very strong and not as revvy as the indirect injection motors listed above.
Then you're into the 90/110bhp electronic TDIs. More sensors, more power, stronger in AFN guise (IIRC the code correctly)
Then on to the PD motors. More complex, more tuneable, newer.
Bear in mind that you have two distinctly different strains of these motors from the 90/110 onwards - the transverse motors from the Golf platform and the longitudinal ones from the Passat. These will have quite different manifolds and mounts, as well as very differently configured ancilliaries. I would strongly recommend you get something from a Golf platform motor to avoid huge ball-ache.
On the 90/110 motors you also have the option (much beloved of the T25 brigade) of fitting a mechanical TDI pump from Bernd Jaeger in Germany. Dig deep if you're afraid of wires and rejoice in 120bhp.
If I was to go for a 'quick' conversion, it'd be a 1Z out of a Golf3. if I wanted big power it'd be the PD 130 motor, tuned, or running on this: http://www.bodylogicuk.com/90265/info.php?p=8
Although I wouldn't ever put a TDI motor into a Golf2 as a transplant.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djdyb0Hcchk
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djdyb0Hcchk
Now that is sweet :cool: :cool: :cool:
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Yeah i know, been looking at what you can get out of a Mk3 Diesel.
This guy has gone to town and spent a few quid, but i reckon with a lot less you can get 140 ish bhp and loads of t's.
Engine is quite small as well and does not look too disimilar in size and shape to basic vag unit used for last 25 years.
My Boss has a Mk6 GTD (now with new back end after i crashed it) and it has opened my eyes to diesels+Golfs
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Yeah i know, been looking at what you can get out of a Mk3 Diesel.
This guy has gone to town and spent a few quid, but i reckon with a lot less you can get 140 ish bhp and loads of t's.
Engine is quite small as well and does not look too disimilar in size and shape to basic vag unit used for last 25 years.
My Boss has a Mk6 GTD (now with new back end after i crashed it) and it has opened my eyes to diesels+Golfs
A lot of the mods in that video are not big money and most custom as no off the shelf stuff to buy.. Its runninb about 200bhp in that video he says with them mods.. the biggest cost i can see is the turbo and the big injectors..
I think diesel tuning is fantastic and has been big in the US for years but has only just started happening over here (i mean more than just a tuning box/Remap) Turbo Dynamics make a lot of hybrid turbos from the VAG platform cars and probably many other makes and i had one to put on my old Leon.. Still a lot of stuff needs to be imported as no one stocks it here or are bloody expensive
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A giles fuel pump will also cost you a bit but will be done well or you can have a play at modifying it yourself :smiley:
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A giles fuel pump will also cost you a bit but will be done well or you can have a play at modifying it yourself :smiley:
What needs modding on it ?
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depends on what pump it is, how much you want from it.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=645.0
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Yeah i know, been looking at what you can get out of a Mk3 Diesel.
This guy has gone to town and spent a few quid, but i reckon with a lot less you can get 140 ish bhp and loads of t's.
Engine is quite small as well and does not look too disimilar in size and shape to basic vag unit used for last 25 years.
My Boss has a Mk6 GTD (now with new back end after i crashed it) and it has opened my eyes to diesels+Golfs
A lot of the mods in that video are not big money and most custom as no off the shelf stuff to buy.. Its runninb about 200bhp in that video he says with them mods.. the biggest cost i can see is the turbo and the big injectors..
I think diesel tuning is fantastic and has been big in the US for years but has only just started happening over here (i mean more than just a tuning box/Remap) Turbo Dynamics make a lot of hybrid turbos from the VAG platform cars and probably many other makes and i had one to put on my old Leon.. Still a lot of stuff needs to be imported as no one stocks it here or are bloody expensive
Im Skint anything is big money atm :grin:
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True true money is always tight lol..
Anyone got any more info ?
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got me looking at GTD's again :laugh:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1991-VW-VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-MK2-GTD-TURBO-DIESEL-RED-/170690067886?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item27bdebbdae#ht_500wt_1156
bit suspect about the 'oil cooler' leaking oil into the water :undecided: probably a glown head gasket or crack between the oil and water ways.
Wouldn't worry about oil cooler just change it and do a coolant and oil flush and would be sweet..
I think the real question is how the owner came to the conclusion that it was the oil cooler ... oh that's right, because he's selling it :grin: