GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: blueandy on 06 August 2011, 10:59
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I was at a trackday yesterday and the valver was full of awesomeness through the corners, hard on the power earlier than a lot of the other meant that I had great entry and exit speeds but was short of legs on the straights,
The upshot was that I was in great positions to catch other cars coming out the corners but then they would pull away on the straights, but not massively, I just need 20 or 25 extra horsepower from the abf.
I stripped out the rear seats, rear bench, spare wheel, tools and I know that there is more to come which increases the PTW ratio.
I have a K&N 57i and will shield it and get fresh air in but what next?
Manifold? cheapo Taiwan job that fits properly?.
Decat? MOT issue?
Plastic bonnet? where from?
the only downer in it all is that this is not a wallet mod car, definitely needs to be low end costs.
I have a deadline of October when I'm at Castle Combe.
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Manifold and decat will gain you little if nothing as the standard set up is not that bad.
Might be worth getting rid of the trim you don't need then maybe a remap.
To get power out of a ABF is not cheap or easy.
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mill the massive lips out in the throttle body that restrict air flow.
run a cold feed into the airbox and remove all the crap inside. there's a how to on here somewhere.
fast road cams if you can fit em yourself?
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mill the massive lips out in the throttle body that restrict air flow.
run a cold feed into the airbox and remove all the crap inside. there's a how to on here somewhere.
fast road cams if you can fit em yourself?
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7123/tbody.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/tbody.jpg/)
Works a treat on 8V/16V, loads of enlargement possible before you get into custom butterfly territory.
Look at IM as well, mine is 3mm bigger now :cool:
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Stick a 20v turbo in it like I've just bought
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NOS
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QxpK2ErcLw&feature=related
Every Mk3 should have one
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Not sure i'd stand that close to the pulleys in baggy shorts. :shocked:
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mill the massive lips out in the throttle body that restrict air flow.
run a cold feed into the airbox and remove all the crap inside. there's a how to on here somewhere.
fast road cams if you can fit em yourself?
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7123/tbody.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/tbody.jpg/)
Works a treat on 8V/16V, loads of enlargement possible before you get into custom butterfly territory.
Does that really give much more bhp?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QxpK2ErcLw&feature=related
Every Mk3 should have one
That looks mean as fook
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Yeah, my 8v sounded better than that today with no exhaust on! :evil:
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mill the massive lips out in the throttle body that restrict air flow.
run a cold feed into the airbox and remove all the crap inside. there's a how to on here somewhere.
fast road cams if you can fit em yourself?
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7123/tbody.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/tbody.jpg/)
Works a treat on 8V/16V, loads of enlargement possible before you get into custom butterfly territory.
Does that really give much more bhp?
NO! sod all.
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Have been researching the interwebs and it seems to be common thinking that add a tubular manfold, a decat, filter and remap and woot woot you have 20bhp.
Are you guys saying thats not the case then.... :(
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Have been researching the interwebs and it seems to be common thinking that add a tubular manfold, a decat, filter and remap and woot woot you have 20bhp.
Are you guys saying thats not the case then.... :(
Correct, those mods will add extra power but not 20bhp.
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My remap was approx 2 bhp max!
20 to 25 bhp will need those already suggested plus either cams or throttle bodies, or both!
Mind you to make those work you need a fully gas flowed head and all that will cost you 2.5 to 3 grand.
That does include a new ECU to get best out of it! :grin:
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NOS it is then :huh:
Am I the only one that thinks nitros is the way to go? it's only 25bhp and it's not going to kill the engine. You just have to add more fuel at the same time. A good kit will include everything you need.
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NOS FTW
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NO! sod all.
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Yawn , If you match and flow your engines breathing you will gain extra power from Expensive cams and Manifolds.
On some engines ive seen an extra 10/15 bhp from fully flowing and enlarging the breathing, add a Cam and you have 20/25
True, just sorting out the TB will not give you what you want, but you have to start somewhere and its mosty a time cost.
You can dream like most and wait for the 5k to do a proper engine conversion, or you can get stuck in and learn something which is portable to any combustion engine.
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All very true, BUT just opening out/polishing the TB will give you sod all.
I know as I did it and tested it on same RR and got nowt!
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All very true, BUT just opening out/polishing the TB will give you sod all.
I know as I did it and tested it on same RR and got nowt!
And only 2bhp with a remap! :sick: doesn't wanna gain much your car Len. Have u done any other performance mods that HAVE gained you anything?! :evil:
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Not yet!
I first had a K&N filter and a Magnex exhaust.
I then had a remap and went back to standard airbox (drilled) with K&N panel plus the TB.
Max bhp has been 154.5
Standard, when I bought it was 148.9bhp
So I am always extremely dubious about other peoples claims of increases.
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So I am always extremely dubious about other peoples claims of increases.
That's because getting any real power increase out of an ABF is quite difficult and expensive.
Just ask Ess_Three.
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If you want cheapness then keep stripping the weight out of the car.
Get the basics sorted out before you start looking for more power. Is the car serviced and running well.
It's easier to sort the handling out than the power.
Get the front end aligned properly, go for about 1.5 degrees of negative camber and about 2 minutes of toe out on each side, this will make the turn in quicker and sharper into the corners.
A lightened flywheel will make the car feel like its got an extra 20 bhp and lets the engine rev a lot quicker.
Lightweight wheels will help a lot by reducing the unsprung weight (a kilo off of the wheel weight is equivalent to about 20kgs off of the body weight, times that by four and it adds up)
A session out with an instructor is also worth 20 bhp.
What date are you going to Combe in October? We're going sometime in October.
Paul
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tubular manifolds, nt all tubular manifolds are the same, i found the ABF prefers a Tri Y compared to a 4-1. get the lengths right on a tri Y and it'll gain some good torques
throttel body, bigger hole allways helps.
chips can help give a littel extra, they are cheep about £1.81 ea for a blank eeprom if you cant be arsed tweeking it yourself you can ether copy an existing chip that is known to work well or try various downloaded ones, ( some are good some are sh!te)
now thats the easy bits out the way now you need to go shopping.
silverline pencil air die grinder ( its the sae as the sealy one biy cheeper ) some cheep tungsten carbibe cross cut burrs, sanding bands and manderls 6 and 13mm and somem flap wheels. borrow a mates air compressor, the whip the head off and strip it.
spend the next 8 - 12 hours in the ports and chambers optomiseing them, you dont need to take out LOADS of metal just smooth the shape and loose that bloody bump on the short side radius, then de shroud the valve seats into the chamber. next come the valves and seats it's possible to blend the seats with a grinding stone on the die grinder but thats a lot of effort and easy to mess up. id suggest haveing a machene shop tri cut the seats and whilst your at it have the valves 3 angel ground.
done well that lot should have given you your 25bhp and can be done for less than £200
next come the cams. as three_ess found the shrick 266 ca,s fitted as a pair loose mid range torque but the shrick 266 inlet cam with the stck exhasut cam makes nearly as much power but with much better torques. problem is shrick cams are expensive the good news is that cams can be reground :smiley: the std hydralic tappets have enough adjustemt in them to allow as much duration as a std bottom end would take. regrinding to 272 is possible, the massive bounus is you can pick and chooes what profiles you want. 272 inlet 266 exhaust has been tryed and liked but 266 inlet with std exhaust works well, cams can be reground for less than £100 a stick
thats clean over 175 bhp
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mill the massive lips out in the throttle body that restrict air flow.
run a cold feed into the airbox and remove all the crap inside. there's a how to on here somewhere.
fast road cams if you can fit em yourself?
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7123/tbody.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/tbody.jpg/)
Works a treat on 8V/16V, loads of enlargement possible before you get into custom butterfly territory.
Does that really give much more bhp?
NO! sod all.
Wrong!
1 - 1.5 BHP on a mapped car...not a lot, but cumalative.
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Have been researching the interwebs and it seems to be common thinking that add a tubular manfold, a decat, filter and remap and woot woot you have 20bhp.
Are you guys saying thats not the case then.... :(
10 at absolute best. More likely 6-8.
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All very true, BUT just opening out/polishing the TB will give you sod all.
I know as I did it and tested it on same RR and got nowt!
Strange, I did the same and got a repeatable 1.5 BHP on an ABF and 3 BHP doing the same on a 2.9 VR6.
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If you want a 25 BHP gain, it's expensive.
If you want it to feel like a 25 BHP gain, swap the final drive to a 4.2, fit a cheap eBay Chip to raise the rev limiter by 500 RPM or so, and fit a light flywheel.
Then it'll go like it's got 25-30 BHP more...if not more.
If you want it to handle better too, fit a Quaife/Peloquin diff at the same time...and it'll corner better and pit the power down better too.
I can't believe people chase BHP on a standard gerarbox!
A 3.94 or 4.2 FB, Quaife and light flywheel will take FAR more time off your laptimes than adding 50 BHP will...trust me, I've done both...and know.
Gearbox all the way. Leave the engine alone bar basic treaks (TB, airbox, match porting and a chip)
The standard downpiped are perfectly fine for 200 BHP+ too - just match port the cast manifold to the head, and again to the downpipes.
Mine ruins standard manifold/downpipes and a cat...and manages 200BHP just fine. (sort of...when it's working LOL)
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i cant have a std manifold / downpipe as theres a prop in the way
what i am saying tho is a well desinged tubular can help the engine make a bit more than it would with std items. my latest version should see a decent inprovement over std, but much work has gone into perfecting the desing and runner lengths that are all worked out to work with the cams as best as possible
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i cant have a std manifold / downpipe as theres a prop in the way
what i am saying tho is a well desinged tubular can help the engine make a bit more than it would with std items. my latest version should see a decent inprovement over std, but much work has gone into perfecting the desing and runner lengths that are all worked out to work with the cams as best as possible
No doubting the gains possible...
But for a standard engine, on standard cams...nobody is going to pick up 10-15 BHP from a 4 branch!
On a high spec engine, this IS entirely possible....but as you say, you need the manifold matched to the cams/CR/Torque delivery etc.
And I wouldn't expect change from £1000 to get somebody decent to do it for you.
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i think the easyest cheepest poinies the ABF gives up are from portwork and reprofiled cams.
i got some intresting numbers when running a modifyyed inlet manifold. gained a few bhp over the std one with a log manifold. 4ltr plenum runners only about 250 mm from valve center to trumpet throat iirc
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i think the easyest cheepest poinies the ABF gives up are from portwork and reprofiled cams.
Agreed. But within the limitations of the standard ECU, you aren't going to see any more than 25 BHP when combined with lots of other work, if it's still to run properly - unless a standalone ECU is fitted.
And even if you go standalone, and run bigger cams than 260/260 or 268/std, the cams work against the CR so you are wasting your time and money.
To run 268/268 or more, you need high compression, more revs, a stronger bottom end etc.
The laws of diminishing returns kicks in.
I still maintain that a 25 BHP gain on a standard gearbox will not give the on-the-road-gain that re-working the gearbox will give...so I'd only do the head/cams AFTER the 'box has been sorted.
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thanks for the info, I noticed on your famous thread that a remap early doors on your setup gave a good strong 10-15hp?
Was that a bespoke map or a plug and play?