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General => General discussion => Topic started by: Evoss on 28 July 2011, 13:04
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A High Court judge has ruled that BT must block access to a website which provides links to pirated movies. Newzbin 2 is a members-only site which aggregates a large amount of the illegally copied material found on Usenet discussion forums.
The landmark case is the first time that an ISP has been ordered to block access to such a site. It paves the way for other sites to be blocked as part of a major crackdown on piracy.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14322957
I wonder which ISP will be next, I think Virgin will be the next to be ordered to block sites.
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https://www.torproject.org/ :wink:
virgin or talk talk are really the only big players after BT so either of them
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https://www.torproject.org/ :wink:
virgin or talk talk are really the only big players after BT so either of them
Problem with tor.... Its so slow.
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https://www.torproject.org/ :wink:
virgin or talk talk are really the only big players after BT so either of them
Problem with tor.... Its so slow.
true, but slow is better than nothing.
most of the usergroup sites, just provide links to sites like rapidshare, filesonic, megaupload etc so you could get the links via tor and then load them up in your favourite download manager.
the main problem they are going to have is proving that a closed site is providing pirate software.
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I just read this, and I am apalled. I thought the US ICE department was crazy with their take over of websites that they deem illegal but censoring the internet is a small step to totalitarism
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I think it's a good thing.
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I think it's a good thing.
why?
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Pirate bay Vpn, last I looked it was 5 quid for 3 months.
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why?
Because lots of people aren't paying to watch/listen to lots of content for which they would previously have had to pay.
Although this is a good thing if you don't like paying for things, it is a bad thing if you make music or films... or if you want people to continue to keep making music and films.
:rolleyes:
It's not that difficult to figure out, is it?
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I think it's a good thing.
why?
Because if people keep ripping off software / films / music, those industries make no money. If they make no money, they wont continue to produce those products. Simples.
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I think it's a good thing.
why?
Because it's piracy :huh:
I don't like how people just expect entertainment media for free.
Personally, I'm speaking from a musical perspective, but downloading music and films are just as bad - because it's readily available people expect everything for free now.
Again with music, people say things like "the bands and record labels already have enough money, why should I give them more?".
But because of that, people think they can get everything for free, which is seriously limiting the new artists breaking through to even a bit of success.
And people just don't understand the amount of hard work and money that goes into producing music.
My boss asked me the other day: "how do you make a million pounds in the music industry? Start with 2 million!"
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why?
Because lots of people aren't paying to watch/listen to lots of content for which they would previously have had to pay.
Although this is a good thing if you don't like paying for things, it is a bad thing if you make music or films... or if you want people to continue to keep making music and films.
:rolleyes:
It's not that difficult to figure out, is it?
the alternative being they continue to churn out sh!te that isn't worth paying for and we're forced to buy it becasue we can't test / try / listen / play etc first.
The main example of this is computer games, buy a game on the PC from gamestation / game etc install it find out it's rubbish, you're stuck as they wont buy it back pre-owned, download a "demo" like it buy it.
Not everyone that downloads stuff from the internet does it with the intention of stealing it, no different that taking a car for a test drive :rolleyes:
Maybe if they made stuff worth buying then there wouldn't be so much piracy :huh:
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the alternative being they continue to churn out sh!te that isn't worth paying for and we're forced to buy it becasue we can't test / try / listen / play etc first.
The main example of this is computer games, buy a game on the PC from gamestation / game etc install it find out it's rubbish, you're stuck as they wont buy it back pre-owned, download a "demo" like it buy it.
Not everyone that downloads stuff from the internet does it with the intention of stealing it, no different that taking a car for a test drive :rolleyes:
Maybe if they made stuff worth buying then there wouldn't be so much piracy :huh:
That's why demos/previews are useful.
And most of the people that produce these products will release their own official demo/preview/trailer, why illegally download the whole thing to 'preview' it, then buy it if you like it?
I get what you're saying about not everyone being out there to steal sh!t, but the sad truth that the vast majority actually are.
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Plus the fact that most of the sh1te that they produce is grossly overpriced!!! You can see this by the way that when it eventually does get discounted they still make a big profit.
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the alternative being they continue to churn out sh!te that isn't worth paying for and we're forced to buy it becasue we can't test / try / listen / play etc first.
The main example of this is computer games, buy a game on the PC from gamestation / game etc install it find out it's rubbish, you're stuck as they wont buy it back pre-owned, download a "demo" like it buy it.
Not everyone that downloads stuff from the internet does it with the intention of stealing it, no different that taking a car for a test drive :rolleyes:
Maybe if they made stuff worth buying then there wouldn't be so much piracy :huh:
That's why demos/previews are useful.
And most of the people that produce these products will release their own official demo/preview/trailer, why illegally download the whole thing to 'preview' it, then buy it if you like it?
I get what you're saying about not everyone being out there to steal sh!t, but the sad truth that the vast majority actually are.
because they don't anymore, a 30 second track preview of a song doesn't give you enough to decide if you want to buy it, a trailer for a movie doesn't necessarily reflect the actual film, computer game demos aren't as frequent as they used to be and don't always reflect the full version, lots of people I know will download the full version purely as a test to see if it actual run or not.
I get what you're saying about not everyone being out there to steal sh!t, but the sad truth that the vast majority actually are.
this is true and arbitrarily blocking websites, isn't necessarily the best way to stop the pirates
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The most annoying thing about buying movies and tv shows on dvd is the friggin piracy warnings at the start and the adverts (:sick:) on some dvds. I still buy shows and movies I really like on DVD for the extras and stuff, but availability is also an issue. Find me an EU copy of both seasons of The Critic on DVD and I will give you a hug :grin:
On the topic of music sales, unless you're a chart topper there's not much money in CD sales. The bulk of a musician's income is from gigs. For many the CD sales will cover recording costs and anything ater that is a nice bonus. In my experiences at least, people listening to the music and going to gigs is more important than actual CD sales. Plus let's not forget the merch :grin:
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The most annoying thing about buying movies and tv shows on dvd is the friggin piracy warnings at the start and the adverts (:sick:) on some dvds. I still buy shows and movies I really like on DVD for the extras and stuff, but availability is also an issue. Find me an EU copy of both seasons of The Critic on DVD and I will give you a hug :grin:
On the topic of music sales, unless you're a chart topper there's not much money in CD sales. The bulk of a musician's income is from gigs. For many the CD sales will cover recording costs and anything ater that is a nice bonus. In my experiences at least, people listening to the music and going to gigs is more important than actual CD sales. Plus let's not forget the merch :grin:
In my previous band, the record label gave us two options as to the way we wanted our stuff released, they said we could have a larger advance and then give 50% of everything, including merch and stuff sold at shows and have everything produced for us (tee shirts made, CDs burnt and packaged... vinyls pressed...) or we could have a small advance and get to keep all of the profit from gigs, merch and sales of music at shows but surrender 50% of record sales.
We took the larger advance and the opportunity to have stuff made for us because we were poor... and it was a very bad move. Because all of the money was in the merch; we barely made a profit, in fact we could only just afford food when we were on tour.
Our second release we chose the second option and the difference it made was staggering.
Moral of that story, is that you can't pirate merch. Or something... Or money is in live music and self promotion!
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newzbin's working fine for me :lipsrsealed:
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The most annoying thing about buying movies and tv shows on dvd is the friggin piracy warnings at the start and the adverts (:sick:) on some dvds. I still buy shows and movies I really like on DVD for the extras and stuff, but availability is also an issue. Find me an EU copy of both seasons of The Critic on DVD and I will give you a hug :grin:
On the topic of music sales, unless you're a chart topper there's not much money in CD sales. The bulk of a musician's income is from gigs. For many the CD sales will cover recording costs and anything ater that is a nice bonus. In my experiences at least, people listening to the music and going to gigs is more important than actual CD sales. Plus let's not forget the merch :grin:
That's rarely even the case.
Many bands go un recouped from sales, and when it comes to a follow up album, they're stuck with the debt of the 1st album too.
If there's not much money coming in from sales the band will be more than likely dropped.
If there's no money coming in, labels will be more apprehensive about feeding money in in order to market etc.
That's why bands have to make money, as mentioned elsewhere, by live shows, merch and one of the most important income streams from bands is through sync fees (getting music in games and films, usually through publishers).
It's all a vicious circle.
But if people resort to piracy and get films and games illegally, budgets will get smaller and smaller, cutting off a huge income stream for artists.
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newzbin's working fine for me :lipsrsealed:
Yeah, I don't think they'd be quite that quick at implementing it! ;)
I don't know if the article linked is on the one I read, but it mentioned research that shows users of Limewire were also iTunes' biggest customers.
I download movies and TV shows, but I do go to the cinema a lot and pay an insane amount (nearly £10!!) each time. TV Shows I don't see a problem with.. I'm not going to buy DVD box sets, because it's in an inconvenient format.
Games are something I've always bought as it's an industry I like to support. The same with music - I don't bother buying music from artists I know are stinking rich though. They can live without my money. If music was all a lot cheaper, like say £1 an album and £2 a film, I would buy almost everything.. but it's not.
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october supposedly and newzbin are working on a work around
and theres 1000's of other newsgroup sites anyway :lipsrsealed:
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The same with music - I don't bother buying music from artists I know are stinking rich though. They can live without my money. If music was all a lot cheaper, like say £1 an album and £2 a film, I would buy almost everything.. but it's not.
The thing with music, on average the artist gets 10% of the final RRP, so if you bought a CD for £10, the artist would get about £1, if it's a band with 4 members they would have to split that £1 4 ways, after the manager takes their 20% of course.
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october supposedly and newzbin are working on a work around
and theres 1000's of other newsgroup sites anyway :lipsrsealed:
shhh now, it's a good publicity stunt to calm the politicians, producers & peons.
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The same with music - I don't bother buying music from artists I know are stinking rich though. They can live without my money. If music was all a lot cheaper, like say £1 an album and £2 a film, I would buy almost everything.. but it's not.
The thing with music, on average the artist gets 10% of the final RRP, so if you bought a CD for £10, the artist would get about £1, if it's a band with 4 members they would have to split that £1 4 ways, after the manager takes their 20% of course.
Need to get a better deal me thinks!
Seriously though, after dj-ing and collecting vinyl for nearly 10yrs I've paid a silly amount of money into the system...I also still support legit versions but £7:99 for alias of 1,0s on a drive that may fail I don see the costings there TBH. That's why people DL. I only ever bought vinyl and still only buy vinyl...I'd never pay money for mp3 unless it wasn't available in another format. And even then I'd prefer to blag a copy rather than pay.
I think the whole point of this though is internet censorship isn't it??? One step away from China and now Rupert Murdoch looks under pressure what will the news look like if he can't control what's seen? Will it just be what the government want? What else will they monitor you for?? Travel, internet, banking, next up water consumption, and finally thoughts...oh thats right, i can't say that the sexual exploitation rings are 75% asian run and have massive links to the drugs and human trafficking trades can I :grin:
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Surely alot of piracy only exists because the prices of everything are so expensive.
Computer games are a good example.
Is it not the same problem as smuggled booze and fags? if you overprice something, someone will find a way of selling it cheaper.
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correct me if I,m wrong, which I'm sure you will do, but newsgroup sites dont actually host pirate products, they just provide links to them right?
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correct me if I,m wrong, which I'm sure you will do, but newsgroup sites dont actually host pirate products, they just provide links to them right?
Correct but Usenet is seemingly unstoppable for whatever reason
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Mr White denies this.
"We make enough money for strippers and Jack Daniels but Ferraris may be some way off," he said.
This was a quote when Newzbin 2 spokesperson was accused of making over 1million from profits for the search engine. Thing with all of this is, Google brings up more dodgy stuff than this one site so why not serve them the papers? Oh, yeah, they are multi million dollar company possibly billions :grin:
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The same with music - I don't bother buying music from artists I know are stinking rich though. They can live without my money. If music was all a lot cheaper, like say £1 an album and £2 a film, I would buy almost everything.. but it's not.
The thing with music, on average the artist gets 10% of the final RRP, so if you bought a CD for £10, the artist would get about £1, if it's a band with 4 members they would have to split that £1 4 ways, after the manager takes their 20% of course.
Need to get a better deal me thinks!
Seriously though, after dj-ing and collecting vinyl for nearly 10yrs I've paid a silly amount of money into the system...I also still support legit versions but £7:99 for alias of 1,0s on a drive that may fail I don see the costings there TBH. That's why people DL. I only ever bought vinyl and still only buy vinyl...I'd never pay money for mp3 unless it wasn't available in another format. And even then I'd prefer to blag a copy rather than pay.
I think the whole point of this though is internet censorship isn't it??? One step away from China and now Rupert Murdoch looks under pressure what will the news look like if he can't control what's seen? Will it just be what the government want? What else will they monitor you for?? Travel, internet, banking, next up water consumption, and finally thoughts...oh thats right, i can't say that the sexual exploitation rings are 75% asian run and have massive links to the drugs and human trafficking trades can I :grin:
So your logic is, because you've paid for music in the past, you shouldn't have to pay for it now?
If you can't afford to buy something, don't buy it. I really want an Aston Martin, but i'm not going to steal one just because it could be easy. Same with music, or a bit of software. If people continue to take it for free, that content will, at some point, cease to exist. The companies NEED to make money to continue to trade and produce the product.
To those complaining about the margins some companies make, suck it up. Would you do your job if all you ever got paid was the bare minimum to cover your costs? Of course not.
To the person who said "I only download it to evaluate it first". Seriously? You honestly expect anyone to believe you download a song of acceptable quality, then if you like it, you go and purchase it legitimately?
We're a LONG way from the level of censorship in China. This is just trying to prevent a law being broken.
I really don't understand what the problem is here. The law is black and white on this. Downloading copyrighted material is illegal, simple as. By banning the sites that freely distribute it, stops a law being broken. Look at it another way, child pornography is illegal - should we allow that to be freely distributed?
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To those complaining about the margins some companies make, suck it up. Would you do your job if all you ever got paid was the bare minimum to cover your costs? Of course not.
what's the choice working to survive or claiming job seekers :rolleyes:
So your logic is, because you've paid for music in the past, you shouldn't have to pay for it now?
what about downloading music you've already paid for? I've had CDs in the past that have gotten scratched, I've already aid for this so why can't I download it?
To the person who said "I only download it to evaluate it first". Seriously? You honestly expect anyone to believe you download a song of acceptable quality, then if you like it, you go and purchase it legitimately?
believe what you want, the stack of CDs on my shelves says otherwise :rolleyes:
Downloading copyrighted material is illegal, simple as.
wrong, I suggest you actually read up on copyright law before making such statements
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If i like a film ill usually purchase on bluray afterwards. I like the extras and the quality and owning the case.
If its crap i wont bother buying it obviously.
I also recommend films to friends who buy them on my reviews to them, they wouldnt otherwise do this; especially blurays due to the price. My friend has spent a few hundred quid based on my advice from seeing films i have acquired then bought myself.
I pay for spotify so tend to use that for music, il buy albums from my favourite artists to support them, as well as download so i have a digital copy.
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I pay for all my music as i worked in the record industry for a long time so saw how a lot of producers struggled to make a good living. I am not so good when it comes to films as i think itunes is stupidly overpriced i dont understand why a digital copy cost the same as a dvd as there is no manufacturing costs as such. I suaully delete the films after watching so think of it as borrowing a copy from a friend then returning it :lipsrsealed:
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We're a LONG way from the level of censorship in China. This is just trying to prevent a law being broken.
Any steps towards censorship is a step to far. These measures the government are taking are purely political and look good to the common man and will stop the occasional downloader until their mate tells them of another way round it, there is no way to stop pirates other than taking down the internet. As long as traffic can pass over the internet there will be pirates.
People do lots of things they shouldn't, but for some reason or another the government can't stop them.
PS: All those that say they bought a CD and it got damaged so they downloaded a MP3 of it, that's more legal than making an MP3 from a CD you've bought. It is even printed on all CD's :lipsrsealed:
Remember kids, it's illegal to share content but not to download it. But it doesn't make it right*
*The last time I looked into it and have not seen or heard of any changes to the law regarding this. Correct me if I'm wrong
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Nothing new, we moan at how China doesn't allow freedom with their control off the internet. Yet no one made a deal or made a comment on when a law was passed months ago about the government has power to blacklist/block sites it deems a threat... which is the same as what we hypocrite about other national like China.
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Any steps towards censorship is a step to far.
This isn't censorship, this is preventing distribution of illegal materials.
If action was taken to stop Chinese brake pads made of cheese in VAG Genuine boxes being sold, would this be censorship or consumer protection? It's quite a similar scenario.
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I wrote to my MP, Ed Lazy I mean Ed Vaizey about the Digital Economy Act. Being a tw@t, I mean politician, he doesn't see the totalitarian measures the government are taking.
Any steps towards censorship is a step to far.
This isn't censorship, this is preventing distribution of illegal materials.
If action was taken to stop Chinese brake pads made of cheese in VAG Genuine boxes being sold, would this be censorship or consumer protection? It's quite a similar scenario.
Fair point, but any steps they take to stop access to information is censorship, who is going to say what sites to block ? A bunch of politicians being told what to do by the aids ? If it were that bad why did BT and Talk Talk appeal the decision 3 times ?
Taking action to stop cheese brake pads is a matter of health and safety.
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I wrote to my MP, Ed Lazy I mean Ed Vaizey about the Digital Economy Act. Being a tw@t, I mean politician, he doesn't see the totalitarian measures the government are taking.
Any steps towards censorship is a step to far.
This isn't censorship, this is preventing distribution of illegal materials.
If action was taken to stop Chinese brake pads made of cheese in VAG Genuine boxes being sold, would this be censorship or consumer protection? It's quite a similar scenario.
Fair point, but any steps they take to stop access to information is censorship, who is going to say what sites to block ? A bunch of politicians being told what to do by the aids ? If it were that bad why did BT and Talk Talk appeal the decision 3 times ?
Taking action to stop cheese brake pads is a matter of health and safety.
I can understand the blocking of some sites for example child porn, extremist sites but i agree it is a tricky road as who decides what is acceptable.
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To be fair anyone with a bit of IT knowledge can bypass these 'blocks'
None of this bothers me that much, there will always be something new. I remember when napster was shut down and every one thought that was it, the end of downloading.
They also say you will be sent letters or blocked for excessive downloading but with virgin successfully testing 1.5 GB a sec download speeds (a long way off i know) how can they tell if im streaming legally or acquiring a few bluray films?
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To those complaining about the margins some companies make, suck it up. Would you do your job if all you ever got paid was the bare minimum to cover your costs? Of course not.
what's the choice working to survive or claiming job seekers :rolleyes:
So your logic is, because you've paid for music in the past, you shouldn't have to pay for it now?
what about downloading music you've already paid for? I've had CDs in the past that have gotten scratched, I've already aid for this so why can't I download it?
To the person who said "I only download it to evaluate it first". Seriously? You honestly expect anyone to believe you download a song of acceptable quality, then if you like it, you go and purchase it legitimately?
believe what you want, the stack of CDs on my shelves says otherwise :rolleyes:
Downloading copyrighted material is illegal, simple as.
wrong, I suggest you actually read up on copyright law before making such statements
Please, get off your high horse.
My comment suggested that if the margins weren't decent enough to warrant doing, the product wouldn't continue to exist. Implying that people should be happy to just work to survive is ridiculous.
If you lost or damaged the CD of course you should be expected to pay for it again! If you dropped your mobile and smashed it, should you be allowed to just steal another one to replace it because you paid for one before?
And sorry, to correct my last statement - as you seem to think it makes a difference to what I was trying to say: Distribution, duplication, broadcast or public performance of copyrighted material without the copyright owners explicit consent is illegal.
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how can they tell if im streaming legally or acquiring a few bluray films?
Quite easily with packet filtering, though it would increase latency.
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A lot of streaming sites allow you download the film before you watch it as well, this is useful for HD as you can it watch it uninterrupted later on. Something packet filtering wouldnt show up. The implications of them doing this to every user though i doubt this would happen.
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Mk1makka. How much have you paid for music in all your years on earth?? If it equates to the region of £60,000 then I bow down to your superiority on the subject. If not then get off your own high horse...prices are obscene...I still pay for vinyl as I said...no point did I say I steal...I said I don't agree with pricing and you seem to be stuck on that issue when it's a lot wider as others recognise even if do t agree :smiley:
Google anything you want for free and you WILL be offered a link...that's why this is BS as the government has been told to chase one website when Google offers sooo much more and indexes the same as the website in question :lipsrsealed:
Sorry but I hate all this righteousness seems as though the UK is made of money and can be shafted more than most of the world...probably due to thinking we still own all of our sovereign states :grin:
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Mk1makka. How much have you paid for music in all your years on earth?? If it equates to the region of £60,000 then I bow down to your superiority on the subject. If not then get off your own high horse...prices are obscene...I still pay for vinyl as I said...no point did I say I steal...I said I don't agree with pricing and you seem to be stuck on that issue when it's a lot wider as others recognise even if do t agree :smiley:
Google anything you want for free and you WILL be offered a link...that's why this is BS as the government has been told to chase one website when Google offers sooo much more and indexes the same as the website in question :lipsrsealed:
Sorry but I hate all this righteousness seems as though the UK is made of money and can be shafted more than most of the world...probably due to thinking we still own all of our sovereign states :grin:
I fail to see what i've spent on music in my lifetime has to do with the legality of downloading and distributing copyrighted material?
79p for a track from iTunes and a tenner or so for an album? I don't see that as particularly expensive. In fact, that's cheaper than when I used to buy music as a kid. Everything else I buy has gone up in price, yet this has got cheaper.
Whilst you may or may not be downloading or distributing, the black and white fact is those that do ARE breaking the law. This is akin to the many examples of taking things I have already given.
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I can't really be 4rsed to argue....but :grin: music and films only cost as much to make in the production sense because people are greedy...why is Tom cruise paid what he is for example? Because the film company believe they will get £x turnaround in sales revenue...pay less, bringing down production is one way, the other is digital media. It costs very little to supply digital versions to Apple and any storage costs are negated as wharehousing isn't needed by the film company or Apple and the same goes for music. Greedy feckers really. And that's why I disagree with digital media costs. Same way that CD against vinyl was BS and the industry answer to justify their argument that CDs weren't cheaper to make was dealt with by raising vinyl prices! They would have more support if they lowered the cost to the consumer instead of being greedy.
As for album prices being better at £10 I remember £3:99 :grin:
As for legality of making a copy for own use... :rolleyes:
I have that much music on vinyl I have to take out specialist policies that cover up to £100,000. I performed as a DJ and paid into the PRMS via means of this as all clubs pay and DJs pay is reflective. Anyhoo won't say any more on this
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I can't really be 4rsed to argue....but :grin: music and films only cost as much to make in the production sense because people are greedy...why is Tom cruise paid what he is for example? Because the film company believe they will get £x turnaround in sales revenue...pay less, bringing down production is one way, the other is digital media. It costs very little to supply digital versions to Apple and any storage costs are negated as wharehousing isn't needed by the film company or Apple and the same goes for music. Greedy feckers really. And that's why I disagree with digital media costs. Same way that CD against vinyl was BS and the industry answer to justify their argument that CDs weren't cheaper to make was dealt with by raising vinyl prices! They would have more support if they lowered the cost to the consumer instead of being greedy.
As for album prices being better at £10 I remember £3:99 :grin:
As for legality of making a copy for own use... :rolleyes:
I have that much music on vinyl I have to take out specialist policies that cover up to £100,000. I performed as a DJ and paid into the PRMS via means of this as all clubs pay and DJs pay is reflective. Anyhoo won't say any more on this
The same could be said about F1 drivers, premier league football players, or even top level bankers. In competitive markets, no one will pay the top level less as they'll simply go to the competitor.
Actually, Apple will take 30% of the sale straight off. Add in everyone elses time to get that song to a point of sale - writer, performer, studio, mastering, marketing etc - and thats not a lot of profit per sale.
The more people who distribute the same track for free, the less that buy it, meaning the more they have to sell to maintain the same level of profit, or maintain the price point. If they reduce the costs, they will make less money. The argument of them reducing prices to stop piracy will never work either, not unless they gave the tracks away.
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A lot of the money from CD sales is the mark up price by retailers.
HMV used to aim for a 40%-50% mark up on the dealer price (I'm not sure if they still do since they've all gone tits up)
So say a CD was £10, only £4-£5 would go to the record label.
Minus marketing, distribution, packaging, pressing etc on what would be considered the average record deal there's not a lot left.
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I read somewhere that people who download media illegally also make up the majority of paid for media as well. That is to say, they download stuff illegally, but also pay for more legal media than most ordinary people.
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I always download MP3's then buy the CD if I like it cause I like having an actual copy of the album and the sound quality is better. Then I just copy it for the car.
EDIT: Yes I am fully aware you can download in FLAC. :rolleyes:
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how can they tell if im streaming legally or acquiring a few bluray films?
Quite easily with packet filtering, though it would increase latency.
I dont think they can really if you set your programs up right, I download games through steam and other programs legally all the time but have also downloaded illegally in the past through newsgroups. As long as you set the grabber up properly they cant tell what your downloading
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If you think this won't descend to censorship and seizures of websites without any appeals process them you're fooling yourselves. Google USA ice website seizures. That branch of the USA government is seizing website ip addresses with impunity. I'm sure this government will be following close behind.
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How many people here borrow stuf from friends or family? Borrow a dvd to watch , a game to play etc. They (the respective industries) want to stop this.
How many buy secondhand/used/preowned stuff? Again, they want to block this.
Why? Money of course.
I have a mate who buys loads of DVDs (legally). I'll borrow a few to watch (this is apparently illegal), return them and buy my own copy of the ones that were good. If he doesn't have what I'm after, I'll either buy when it's bargain basement price eg £3 or buy from ebay secondhand. Now I didn't pay to watch a few of those DVDs. I thought they were crap and not worth wasting money on. I see no difference between this and downloading something and watching. What happens to the download is the interesting bit. With the DVD, I'd return it. The download should be deleted but isn't - it's usually kept, copied and passed on (which I disagree with).
As for secondhand, again they want to stop this. Games companies are stopping people from playing online using a secondhand game, unless they pay an additional fee (proposed system). Contentious issue IMO. A (exaggerated) parallel could be buying a car. If you buy brand new, you could use it on the roads. Buy secondhand, and you'd be restricted to your own private area.
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Seriously though, after dj-ing and collecting vinyl for nearly 10yrs I've paid a silly amount of money into the system...I also still support legit versions but £7:99 for alias of 1,0s on a drive that may fail I don see the costings there TBH. That's why people DL. I only ever bought vinyl and still only buy vinyl...I'd never pay money for mp3 unless it wasn't available in another format. And even then I'd prefer to blag a copy rather than pay.
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Iv been DJ'ng and collecting Vinyl since 1989.. iv paid daft amonts into the system, I have over 10k records in my collection. the clubs i play in pay money too
A lot of the music is now only avaliable via DL. i get many many promos sent for free but i still purchase DL music in MP3 format. £1.50 per tune is not so bad and its always good to help support the DJs and producers
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If i wanna preview a song i just find it on youtube. Sometimes I don't bother buying it and just keep listening to it on there.
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What would the deal be with renting movies? lovefilm for example?
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What would the deal be with renting movies? lovefilm for example?
That's done with consent from the industry, otherwise they'd be sued and shutdown by now.
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What would the deal be with renting movies? lovefilm for example?
That's done with consent from the industry, otherwise they'd be sued and shutdown by now.
But they are still doing what piracy is doing, but making more money off it?
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Renting is pretty much licensing something, you buy a license to use that product for a certain amount of time.
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So only BT users are blocked from newzbin2? I can still access it.
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So only BT users are blocked from newzbin2? I can still access it.
Other ISPs will need to be taken to court or may choice to follow suit of their own volition.
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being blocked in october apparently
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It's such a shame that it has come to this to be honest. From the figures I can pull off the internet it seems that cinema attendances are really strong:
2007: £904m (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/2792291/UK-cinema-attendances-approach-8-year-low.html)
2008: The total UK gross box office of £944m was up 11% on 2008
2009: £944m (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8468028.stm)
2010: £988m (http://www.cinemauk.org.uk/mediacentre/_112/)
So from the figures piracy doesn't seem to be hurting cinema attendances.
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I've always gone to the cinema to watch a film I think is going to be good, if I enjoy it that much I'll grab a rip before it's released so I can watch it again before it's released and buy the DVD when it is finally out.
The film and music industry are moving too slowly and can't adapt to new technologies quick enough so others comes along and make a huge profit (itunes, lovefilm, netflix etc etc), it's partially their own fault for not moving quickly enough.
What would the deal be with renting movies? lovefilm for example?
That's done with consent from the industry, otherwise they'd be sued and shutdown by now.
But they are still doing what piracy is doing, but making more money off it?
No, because it's DRM'd and allowed by the movie industry only because if they don't allow it piracy would be much worse and they (the movie companies) failed to see the value of online rentals and the money to be made there.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy
found this interesting article. Obviously it's more complicated than "home taping is killing the music inductry" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_Music).
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What about the damage companies cause to themselves by not making there product available, the gaming industry comes to mind and in turn I can understand why people pirate in these circumstances.
For instance Tombi (PS) & Earthbound (SNES) are two games difficult to get hold off, the first one I've never seen on sale anywhere in UK. I have downloaded the first game due to the fact its impossible to obtain otherwise I would happily off paid. There's plenty off games like this out there and not even available through digital market places.
Then some games become overpriced due to their rarity, "Kula World" and Harvest moon on the PlayStation spring to mind. For an outdated game who would pay £30++ for a copy? Again if it was available on the digital market place for a reasonable price I'd happily purchase it.. For an outdated game who would pay £30++ for a copy? Again if it was available on the digital market place for a reasonable price I'd happily purchase it.
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any lawyers here? They say it's not theft but copyright infringement.
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The copyright laws are finally changing too :cool:
It means itunes will be a legal product now :grin: (for those of you who have not been following, making MP3's of your albums is illegal in the UK, but not illegal in most of the world, we're behind the times see)
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(for those of you who have not been following, making MP3's of your albums is illegal in the UK, but not illegal in most of the world, we're behind the times see)
I don't see how they can expect us to buy every album twice.
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That's why there have been people and businesses calling out for change in the archaic copyright laws for a long time, it's finally going to happen (even though people have been doing it illegally for years, and I bet some of the people on here crying about others downloading illegally have made 'backups' or mp3's of their media).
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I bet some of the people on here crying about others downloading illegally have made 'backups' or mp3's of their media).
:grin:
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(for those of you who have not been following, making MP3's of your albums is illegal in the UK, but not illegal in most of the world, we're behind the times see)
I don't see how they can expect us to buy every album twice.
"Big Media" want's us to buy albums multiple times. Back in the day when they were on Vinyl, then on Cassette to use in Walkmans, then on CD and now digitally. There is a limit on how many times I'm going to buy the Beatles White Album.
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I wont buy it multiple times...if I own one format I own the copyrighted material for my use...just because they outmode a media format doesn't make it right to force you to buy again when alternative methods of changing the format of said material exist. I have paid for the song/film etc.
How many of us as kids used to tape the radio?? Do a dub mixtape of all your favourite tracks?
And on a different note but linked...digital radio being phased out by 2015/2019 things seem unclear, but it appears hopeful for FM Radio existing a little longer...http://www.techradar.com/news/audio/analogue-radio-switch-off-not-until-2019-511322 (http://www.techradar.com/news/audio/analogue-radio-switch-off-not-until-2019-511322)
http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/16/digital-britain-analogue-radio-switchoff?cat=technology&type=article (http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/16/digital-britain-analogue-radio-switchoff?cat=technology&type=article)
are car manufacturers placing DAB enabled radios in their new line of cars from base model onwards...it appears very few if any. So more expense to generate industry when we are supposed to be trying to be green :laugh:
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I wont buy it multiple times...if I own one format I own the copyrighted material for my use...
No you don't.
The copyright holder owns the copyright.
I do however burn my CD's onto iTunes, so I can store them on my iPhone.
Still can't get my head around that being illegal. (I know it is, just think it's stupid that it is)
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I wont buy it multiple times...if I own one format I own the copyrighted material for my use...
No you don't.
The copyright holder owns the copyright.
I do however burn my CD's onto iTunes, so I can store them on my iPhone.
Still can't get my head around that being illegal. (I know it is, just think it's stupid that it is)
As I said...for my use...didnt say that it was legal to copy...i said i would copy, whether for walkman, back in the day, or even CD's for the multi-changer I had in the boot during late 90's etc. Also b0llox is the stance on DJ works...YouPube took a bloody full on routine offline due to it playing more than "1 minute of copyrighted material, even though it wasn't actually just the original playing, as we were re-rubbing on the fly over 4 turntables :laugh: Dumb as hell...
Also for those that are unsure all this mean that according to the copyrightservice.co.uk
Acts that are allowed
Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are:
* Private and research study purposes.
* Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
* Criticism and news reporting.
* Incidental inclusion.
* Copies and lending by librarians.
* Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
* Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as "time shifting".
* Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
* Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.
(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from PRS for Music.)
Also for Bobotheclown
Duration of copyright
The 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act states the duration of copyright as;
1. For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works
70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies.
If the author is unknown, copyright will last for 70 years from end of the calendar year in which the work was created, although if it is made available to the public during that time, (by publication, authorised performance, broadcast, exhibition, etc.), then the duration will be 70 years from the end of the year that the work was first made available.
2. Sound Recordings and broadcasts
50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was created, or,
if the work is released within that time: 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was first released
but it could also be argued that The Beatles is a sound recording, and therefore in 4 years EMI cant make any further money from them and the white album will be free??
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Also for Bobotheclown
Duration of copyright
The 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act states the duration of copyright as;
1. For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works
70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies.
If the author is unknown, copyright will last for 70 years from end of the calendar year in which the work was created, although if it is made available to the public during that time, (by publication, authorised performance, broadcast, exhibition, etc.), then the duration will be 70 years from the end of the year that the work was first made available.
2. Sound Recordings and broadcasts
50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was created, or,
if the work is released within that time: 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was first released
but it could also be argued that The Beatles is a sound recording, and therefore in 4 years EMI cant make any further money from them and the white album will be free??
There;'s 2 types of copy right for songs.
Phonographic and intellectual.
The sound recording is the recording of the song they recorded for the record label.
It's the phonographic copyright of the recording, not the song itself (that belongs to the songwriters and publishers, it covers lyrics and melodies, that intellectual copyright lasts for 70 years after the writer has died)
People that want to cover the song, use lyrics or the melody need permission from the song owner (writers, publishers).
People that want to use the recording of the song need permission from the phonographic owner (record label, or in the Beatles case, the 2 surviving members, and maybe the dead members estates).
Labels often get around this by re-releasing albums, mostly re-masters etc, towards the end of the copy righted period.
By doing this they still retain the original phonographic copyright, as they're original recordings, just re-released.
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I wont buy it multiple times...if I own one format I own the copyrighted material for my use...
No you don't.
The copyright holder owns the copyright.
I do however burn my CD's onto iTunes, so I can store them on my iPhone.
Still can't get my head around that being illegal. (I know it is, just think it's stupid that it is)
The way I see it then, is if I buy the cd, then I have a licence to use it, but a one user licence, like software. The disc is on my shelf, but it's 'installed' (for want of a better word) on my iPod, for my use.
You know, I wonder how far they're going to go. Lending of your cd's is illegal too. Are they going to break our doors down and check for receipts?
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I wont buy it multiple times...if I own one format I own the copyrighted material for my use...
No you don't.
The copyright holder owns the copyright.
I do however burn my CD's onto iTunes, so I can store them on my iPhone.
Still can't get my head around that being illegal. (I know it is, just think it's stupid that it is)
The way I see it then, is if I buy the cd, then I have a licence to use it, but a one user licence, like software. The disc is on my shelf, but it's 'installed' (for want of a better word) on my iPod, for my use.
You know, I wonder how far they're going to go. Lending of your cd's is illegal too. Are they going to break our doors down and check for receipts?
True.
Well put