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General => The garage => Topic started by: richw911 on 16 July 2011, 22:53

Title: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 16 July 2011, 22:53
What is the most amount of safe boost that should be requested on a MK4 TDI 130/ 150 Remap?

Same for a 1.8T AGU?

Out of curiosity
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 16 July 2011, 23:22
What is the most amount of safe boost that should be requested on a MK4 TDI 130/ 150 Remap?

Same for a 1.8T AGU?

Out of curiosity


There are a lot of other factors to take into account when talking safe boost, EMPs EGTs, Knock control, lambda ect..

Safe held gains upto around 4000rpm on a  VNT 17 A / B would be around 4 / 4.5psi

A stock 130PD request is 1.32bar with 1.55bar over shoot, Most stock 130PDs will see upto 1.7bar spikes due to sooted up VNT control.   At a remapped 130pd can see a 1.63bar request, then if you can reduce the EMPs & EGTs with a turbo back exhaust then you can run more boost in the inital spike in the midrange.  Limiting factor with boost and VNT17 is mileage the window around 110-130k is where the start to fail stock or tuned, and the customer who thrashes the car for cold.  but saying that I have a few stage2 115pd 130pds 150pds 160pd which still going strong with over 180k and a 130pd passat taxi mapped with 325k.   150PD mapped will run a request line around 1.75bar from 1.5bar (again even in the stock map it can see 1.9bar). and the 160pd 1.55bar. Then the 150PD hybrids run 2bar across the whole band.


K03 stage2 can (if the actuator is upto it) peak 1.5bar and taper down to 1bar as it wont hold the boost due to the turbos volumetric efficiency.  A K03 will run flat out 200bhp with the actuator shut solid and be happy for many many year.

 I am running 21psi to the 7500rpm on my AUM from my own built hybrid turbo, and a customer with an AGU is running a T3-04e at 27psi and our astra 2bar at 8000rpm 500bhp

But boost is a factor of the rest of the tuning, you cannot run high boost with a lean fuel strategy.


To get a picture of what boost everyone is running on there map just search google for vagcom logs.

 

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: The Doc on 17 July 2011, 08:22
What is the most amount of safe boost that should be requested on a MK4 TDI 130/ 150 Remap?

Same for a 1.8T AGU?

Out of curiosity


There are a lot of other factors to take into account when talking safe boost, EMPs EGTs, Knock control, lambda ect..

Safe held gains upto around 4000rpm on a  VNT 17 A / B would be around 4 / 4.5psi

A stock 130PD request is 1.32bar with 1.55bar over shoot, Most stock 130PDs will see upto 1.7bar spikes due to sooted up VNT control.   At a remapped 130pd can see a 1.63bar request, then if you can reduce the EMPs & EGTs with a turbo back exhaust then you can run more boost in the inital spike in the midrange.  Limiting factor with boost and VNT17 is mileage the window around 110-130k is where the start to fail stock or tuned, and the customer who thrashes the car for cold.  but saying that I have a few stage2 115pd 130pds 150pds 160pd which still going strong with over 180k and a 130pd passat taxi mapped with 325k.   150PD mapped will run a request line around 1.75bar from 1.5bar (again even in the stock map it can see 1.9bar). and the 160pd 1.55bar. Then the 150PD hybrids run 2bar across the whole band.


K03 stage2 can (if the actuator is upto it) peak 1.5bar and taper down to 1bar as it wont hold the boost due to the turbos volumetric efficiency.  A K03 will run flat out 200bhp with the actuator shut solid and be happy for many many year.

 I am running 21psi to the 7500rpm on my AUM from my own built hybrid turbo, and a customer with an AGU is running a T3-04e at 27psi and our astra 2bar at 8000rpm 500bhp

But boost is a factor of the rest of the tuning, you cannot run high boost with a lean fuel strategy.


To get a picture of what boost everyone is running on there map just search google for vagcom logs.

 




Rich, is that for a standard or a modified car, if modified what modifications are you looking at?

Regards
Craig

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 17 July 2011, 11:25
What is the most amount of safe boost that should be requested on a MK4 TDI 130/ 150 Remap?

Same for a 1.8T AGU?

Out of curiosity


There are a lot of other factors to take into account when talking safe boost, EMPs EGTs, Knock control, lambda ect..

Safe held gains upto around 4000rpm on a  VNT 17 A / B would be around 4 / 4.5psi

A stock 130PD request is 1.32bar with 1.55bar over shoot, Most stock 130PDs will see upto 1.7bar spikes due to sooted up VNT control.   At a remapped 130pd can see a 1.63bar request, then if you can reduce the EMPs & EGTs with a turbo back exhaust then you can run more boost in the inital spike in the midrange.  Limiting factor with boost and VNT17 is mileage the window around 110-130k is where the start to fail stock or tuned, and the customer who thrashes the car for cold.  but saying that I have a few stage2 115pd 130pds 150pds 160pd which still going strong with over 180k and a 130pd passat taxi mapped with 325k.   150PD mapped will run a request line around 1.75bar from 1.5bar (again even in the stock map it can see 1.9bar). and the 160pd 1.55bar. Then the 150PD hybrids run 2bar across the whole band.


K03 stage2 can (if the actuator is upto it) peak 1.5bar and taper down to 1bar as it wont hold the boost due to the turbos volumetric efficiency.  A K03 will run flat out 200bhp with the actuator shut solid and be happy for many many year.

 I am running 21psi to the 7500rpm on my AUM from my own built hybrid turbo, and a customer with an AGU is running a T3-04e at 27psi and our astra 2bar at 8000rpm 500bhp

But boost is a factor of the rest of the tuning, you cannot run high boost with a lean fuel strategy.


To get a picture of what boost everyone is running on there map just search google for vagcom logs.

 



Thanks for the info  :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 17 July 2011, 11:29
@ Doc my AGU has full TB exhaust inc sports cat forge 007p dsg intake  :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: The Doc on 17 July 2011, 12:07
@ Doc my AGU has full TB exhaust inc sports cat forge 007p dsg intake  :smiley:

And what about the diesel?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 17 July 2011, 12:15
@ Doc my AGU has full TB exhaust inc sports cat forge 007p dsg intake  :smiley:

And what about the diesel?

Decat ss exhaust and dsg intake  :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 17 July 2011, 12:49
@ Doc my AGU has full TB exhaust inc sports cat forge 007p dsg intake  :smiley:

And what about the diesel?

Decat ss exhaust and dsg intake  :smiley:


What is the power aim? Boost is a direct reflection of power output, and depending on the fuel smoke map (lambda) for every 100mb of boost will equal around 8 - 12bhp more power at that given rpm point.  So if the power aim is 180bhp then around 1.6bar at the top end would be needed, 170bhp = 1.5bar ect.. This ratio can be over come by making the lambda richer to give more smoke and poke.
It's really down to the tuner, some run clouds of black smoke and lower boost, some run cleaner by adding more air flow.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: The Doc on 17 July 2011, 16:21
@ Doc my AGU has full TB exhaust inc sports cat forge 007p dsg intake  :smiley:

And what about the diesel?

Decat ss exhaust and dsg intake  :smiley:


What is the power aim? Boost is a direct reflection of power output, and depending on the fuel smoke map (lambda) for every 100mb of boost will equal around 8 - 12bhp more power at that given rpm point.  So if the power aim is 180bhp then around 1.6bar at the top end would be needed, 170bhp = 1.5bar ect.. This ratio can be over come by making the lambda richer to give more smoke and poke.
It's really down to the tuner, some run clouds of black smoke and lower boost, some run cleaner by adding more air flow.

Ok, are we to assume that both cars are running well and have no obvious issues and are mapping a standard car that has recently had a service or are we "boosting blind"?

After all you must have a safe car with a pre and post logging session for example on the 1.8t of lambda, fuel trims, ignition and boost or you may experience problems.

The TDI's going to leak boost full stop or are we assuming it's been leak tested using CARBONS "boost leak test kit"?

Sorry for all of the questions but I'd like to give you the correct answer  :wink:





Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 17 July 2011, 19:35
@ Doc my AGU has full TB exhaust inc sports cat forge 007p dsg intake  :smiley:

And what about the diesel?

Decat ss exhaust and dsg intake  :smiley:


What is the power aim? Boost is a direct reflection of power output, and depending on the fuel smoke map (lambda) for every 100mb of boost will equal around 8 - 12bhp more power at that given rpm point.  So if the power aim is 180bhp then around 1.6bar at the top end would be needed, 170bhp = 1.5bar ect.. This ratio can be over come by making the lambda richer to give more smoke and poke.
It's really down to the tuner, some run clouds of black smoke and lower boost, some run cleaner by adding more air flow.

Ok, are we to assume that both cars are running well and have no obvious issues and are mapping a standard car that has recently had a service
or are we "boosting blind"?

After all you must have a safe car with a pre and post logging session for example on the 1.8t of lambda, fuel trims, ignition and boost or you may experience problems.

The TDI's going to leak boost full stop or are we assuming it's been leak tested using CARBONS "boost leak test kit"?

Sorry for all of the questions but I'd like to give you the correct answer  :wink:







This

Tell me more about CARBONS "boost leak test kit"  :smiley:

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: dom on 17 July 2011, 19:44
Interesting read :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: JC on 17 July 2011, 19:51
get the boost turned up,  :evil: whats the worst that can happen  :laugh:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Rhyso on 17 July 2011, 19:55
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/37433_1501203178416_1484283576_31281384_4332533_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Adam on 17 July 2011, 20:23
Pop goes the weasel
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 17 July 2011, 20:26
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/37433_1501203178416_1484283576_31281384_4332533_n.jpg)

Always one :-)
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: The Doc on 17 July 2011, 20:42
I take my hat of to you for laughing through that, it's not fun but it happens to the best of us.

Anyone with a turbo should strongly consider having it reconditioned as it costs sub £200 it saves photos like this and lots of hassle  :sad:

Boost leak test kit - PM's sent


 
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Rhyso on 17 July 2011, 20:45
I take my hat of to you for laughing through that, it's not fun but it happens to the best of us.

Anyone with a turbo should strongly consider having it reconditioned as it costs sub £200 it saves photos like this and lots of hassle  :sad:

Boost leak test kit - PM's sent


Had no choice; breakdown cover had expired too  :laugh: :laugh:

Silver cloud and all that as the motor I've got now is  :evil:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 17 July 2011, 20:51
The R-tech cover worked ;-)  that you and rich getting left high and dry with out brake down cover after a trip to Leicestershire.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: JC on 17 July 2011, 20:58
Had no choice

No with me nearby with a camera  :kiss:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 17 July 2011, 20:59
lol  :grin: :grin: :grin:

Yeah my water pump incident  :laugh:  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 17 July 2011, 21:41
lol  :grin: :grin: :grin:

Yeah my water pump incident  :laugh:  :lipsrsealed:

Just booked my holiday online to Devon about 20mins ago and just realised my AA cover has ran out...  I don't want to get skinned for £500 if my home made turbo fails.. :undecided:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: The Doc on 18 July 2011, 10:06
As per the OP

1.9 TDI 130 = around 1.55 - 1.6 bar @ 170-175 safe bhp

1.9 TDI 150 = around 1.7 bar @ 185-190 safe bhp

1.8t I've no idea - I'll ask one of the lads in work later
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 18 July 2011, 18:12
As per the OP

1.9 TDI 130 = around 1.55 - 1.6 bar @ 170-175 safe bhp

1.9 TDI 150 = around 1.7 bar @ 185-190 safe bhp

1.8t I've no idea - I'll ask one of the lads in work later

:afro: Thank you  :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 19 July 2011, 10:18
Plus with all 1.8T engines the ecu will vary the boost depending on time of year, atmospheric conditions and altitude.  They dont have boost  maps like the Tdi ecus.   A remapped 1.8T boost can vary by upto 2psi-G.

The 1.8T engines are based on load demand and the ecu works out the requested boost (or with AGU air flow) by taking into account all the given atmospheric factor.  AGU will use load demand in (ms) which can be logged on blocks 25 and ARZ AUM AUQ will use load % which can be logged in blocks 114.

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Wazzzer on 21 July 2011, 22:57
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 22 July 2011, 14:10
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

Its a long way home on a trailer.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 22 July 2011, 17:24
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 22 July 2011, 17:49
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 22 July 2011, 22:24
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?

£500 and RAC i didnt have roadside recovery included - needed to be back the next day so had no choice  :angry:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Wazzzer on 22 July 2011, 23:36
sh!t me  :shocked:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 23 July 2011, 09:33
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?

£500 and RAC i didnt have roadside recovery included - needed to be back the next day so had no choice  :angry:

All due to a £28 water pump.. :cry:   U could have blagged my AA card :wink:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 23 July 2011, 10:39
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?

£500 and RAC i didnt have roadside recovery included - needed to be back the next day so had no choice  :angry:

All due to a £28 water pump.. :cry:   U could have blagged my AA card :wink:
I was 300 miles from home  :cry:

Indeed i now replace the pump at every cambelt change  :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Rhyso on 23 July 2011, 10:43
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?

£500 and RAC i didnt have roadside recovery included - needed to be back the next day so had no choice  :angry:

All due to a £28 water pump.. :cry:   U could have blagged my AA card :wink:
I was 300 miles from home  :cry:

Indeed i now replace the pump at every cambelt change  :smiley:

I just remember us sat in the pub when you rang; there was a moment's silence and then we all got another beer  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 23 July 2011, 10:54
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?

£500 and RAC i didnt have roadside recovery included - needed to be back the next day so had no choice  :angry:

All due to a £28 water pump.. :cry:   U could have blagged my AA card :wink:
I was 300 miles from home  :cry:

Indeed i now replace the pump at every cambelt change  :smiley:

I just remember us sat in the pub when you rang; there was a moment's silence and then we all got another beer  :laugh: :laugh:

 :angry:  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :laugh:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Wazzzer on 23 July 2011, 14:36
I'll have to get some breakdown cover before I head up to you Nick  :grin:

I would  :grin: :grin:

How much did you pay? And which company had your pants down?

£500 and RAC i didnt have roadside recovery included - needed to be back the next day so had no choice  :angry:

All due to a £28 water pump.. :cry:   U could have blagged my AA card :wink:
I was 300 miles from home  :cry:

Indeed i now replace the pump at every cambelt change  :smiley:

I just remember us sat in the pub when you rang; there was a moment's silence and then we all got another beer  :laugh: :laugh:

Says Mr Moody there when his turbo let go :kiss:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: RTechUK on 23 July 2011, 17:46

[/quote]

I just remember us sat in the pub when you rang; there was a moment's silence and then we all got another beer  :laugh: :laugh:
[/quote]


I remember that well.. Loverly cold pint of Stella went down well..  :-)
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: The Doc on 23 July 2011, 20:34
Knew I'd forgotten something.....

2.3 bar
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: richw911 on 23 July 2011, 21:07
Knew I'd forgotten something.....

2.3 bar

 :smiley:
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Adam on 24 July 2011, 12:02
Knew I'd forgotten something.....

2.3 bar

 :smiley:

That's a bit high! 34psi!