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General => General discussion => Topic started by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 14:38

Title: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 14:38
I came across this today, and i know we all like a good heated debate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-14028188

Discuss.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 05 July 2011, 14:40
90 days of talks which cost time and money,  :rolleyes:

no outcome,  :angry:

action taken  :evil:

cant see the problem meself,  :tongue:

theres always the dole office  :smiley:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 14:44
I thought you would be the first to answer chuff  :grin:

I'm just glad i don't work in the public sector at the moment  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: ineson on 05 July 2011, 14:47
Cant see a problem either.

We had the same, we have had to take a 20% pay cut over the last 6 months, only just back up to a full wage. It was 20% or no wage at all so didnt have a choice at the time.

At least its a job.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 05 July 2011, 14:48
only cos its pissing down  :evil: , the shed is half built  :laugh:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 14:49
Will the councillors have to take a pay cut as well?
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: vaughn on 05 July 2011, 14:53
tough times i`m afraid, it`s a story thats not going to end soon,
never a truer word spoken at the minute
AT LEAST IT`S A JOB

Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: kittie on 05 July 2011, 14:57
I don't get this, is that legal?

I personally would take a pay cut as I'd rather keep my job if it were me but I don't know, it's easy to judge when you aren't the one with a dismissal letter on your doorstep I suppose.

I'm in public sector but luckily only had to reapply for my job to avoid redundancy and got it thankfully because I'm awesome. Don't know what the future will hold though, certainly regretting all the money I've put into my pension so far which will probably turn out to have been thrown in the bin  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 14:57
I wonder how many people, who if they had the chance to stand up to their employer, would accept reduced terms and be happy just to have a job.
Bearing in mind, not having a pay rise every year, is infact a reduction in wages in real terms. Having your pay reduced by 5.4% is a big hit to take.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 14:59
tough times i`m afraid, it`s a story thats not going to end soon,
never a truer word spoken at the minute
AT LEAST IT`S A JOB



Don't forget, we're all in it together  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: kittie on 05 July 2011, 15:00
I wonder how many people, who if they had the chance to stand up to their employer, would accept reduced terms and be happy just to have a job.
Bearing in mind, not having a pay rise every year, is infact a reduction in wages in real terms. Having your pay reduced by 5.4% is a big hit to take.


If it's legal to just dismiss you like that then there is no standing up to an employer is there? There'd be nothing you could do.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 15:04
I wonder how many people, who if they had the chance to stand up to their employer, would accept reduced terms and be happy just to have a job.
Bearing in mind, not having a pay rise every year, is infact a reduction in wages in real terms. Having your pay reduced by 5.4% is a big hit to take.


If it's legal to just dismiss you like that then there is no standing up to an employer is there? There'd be nothing you could do.

I don't know if its legal, if it is it shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Horney on 05 July 2011, 15:04
I wonder how many people, who if they had the chance to stand up to their employer, would accept reduced terms and be happy just to have a job.
Bearing in mind, not having a pay rise every year, is infact a reduction in wages in real terms. Having your pay reduced by 5.4% is a big hit to take.


Been there, done that got the t-Shirt. It's easy, you accept it, be glad you still have a wage coming in at all and keep one eye on the jjob market at all times in case something better comes up. I was on 30K 2 years ago and I'm now on about 3rd of that but still manage to get by with some belt tightening. It's not easy but better than being a dole scrounger. My new job has good prospects so just have to grin and bear it.

Nick
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Kerrse on 05 July 2011, 15:46
I had this happen to me in the past we all had to take a pay cut or people would start losing jobs. We all accepted it 6 months later we went bust anyway lol got a new owner wages went back up 12 months later went bust again.  :laugh: can laugh about it now but was gutted at the time.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: DOA on 05 July 2011, 15:48
Whats the beef? They all get to keep their jobs, no stupid early retirements (how they add up to a saving is a mystery to me, especially when you consider the loss of a considerable knowledge base that inevitably happens in such cases), the staffing levels stay the same so no effect to the locals, the only problem is that they have to take a paycut. Seems like a logical approach to the problem of not being able to force through necessary paycuts to me that considers both the employees and the people they serve in equal measure. Sure a paycut is a ballache but as others have pointed to, a lot of people have and are in worse situations.

What made me laugh was the person complaining that they would lose up to 3k per year due to this. Do the maths and you can see they get paid more than enough anyway!! Either that or they are taking the piss out of their expenses at the taxpayers expense!
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Jimp on 05 July 2011, 15:56
90 days of talks which cost time and money,  :rolleyes:

no outcome,  :angry:

action taken  :evil:

cant see the problem meself,  :tongue:

theres always the dole office  :smiley:
This.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: tg1 on 05 July 2011, 16:22
when they take the paycut, after getting sacked/laid off whatever. they'll also be due a whole lot less benefits that relate to length of service.

probably cover, redundancy pay, holiday, pensions etc


Sneaky toe rags imo
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 16:38
My 'beef' with this is its always the ordinary people that seem to have to take the cuts.
I say cut MP and councillors pay  :tongue:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: raferackstraw on 05 July 2011, 16:49
My 'beef' with this is its always the ordinary people that seem to have to take the cuts.
I say cut MP and councillors pay  :tongue:
i heartily agree with you there, its their astronomical pay that should be cut first.       
in councils saving money,as the first round of budgeting, expense claims should be stopped as well as any bonuses due, all 'fact finding and consultations' should get the same treatment. anything not deemed essential to services should be stopped.
the only exemptions would be for the ordinary workers like midwifes etc who need to travel around, but for the bosses and management none whatsoever
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Horney on 05 July 2011, 16:51
My 'beef' with this is its always the ordinary people that seem to have to take the cuts.
I say cut MP and councillors pay  :tongue:
i heartily agree with you there, its their astronomical pay that should be cut first.      
in councils saving money,as the first round of budgeting, expense claims should be stopped as well as any bonuses due, all 'fact finding and consultations' should get the same treatment. anything not deemed essential to services should be stopped.
the only exemptions would be for the ordinary workers like midwifes etc who need to travel around, but for the bosses and management none whatsoever

And how do you now they haven't already implemented this?
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: WadGTI on 05 July 2011, 16:56
Its moderising pay in local govervnment. This isnt news lol .

Most of all scottish council have gone through this process and the are very few remaining!
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: mac7 on 05 July 2011, 17:06
The fact Shropshire council employs 6500 people in the first place is what I take issue with - it's not exactly an area of high population density, is it. They should be able to do the job adequately with half that number.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 17:09
If public sector pay really is out of control and unsustainable, start cutting from the top.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Horney on 05 July 2011, 17:17
If public sector pay really is out of control and unsustainable, start cutting from the top.

I partially agree, but 20% of the top earners makes little impact, 10% of the thousands of lower earners is a massive sum in comparison. They willl have cut wages at the top as well though.

Nick
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 17:21
It will be interesting to see figures on top earners, the last set released last year showed around 1250 people earning more than 100k working for councils.
Regardless of raising more money, which i think is questionable, if you cut higher earners, then that is setting an example to people lower down the scale.
This is the only proper way to behave, not threaten to sack everyone!
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Horney on 05 July 2011, 17:36
It will be interesting to see figures on top earners, the last set released last year showed around 1250 people earning more than 100k working for councils.
Regardless of raising more money, which i think is questionable, if you cut higher earners, then that is setting an example to people lower down the scale.
This is the only proper way to behave, not threaten to sack everyone!

You're missing my point. If they have already cut the top earners pay then what else can they do? People have to understand they have to take paycut. If they don't want to take a paycut then fine, sack em. I don't see the problem. Too many people in this country think it's their god given right to have a job and earn money, it's not. You gotta earn it and you have to take a hit when times are tough.

I've worked with the public sector a lot and they are utterly hopeless in most cases. A good example is my father in law. He worked for IRS and had to have 2 assistants to fill his quota even though he didn't even need one. He had to make up work for them to do and then he got retired off early at 55 on a final salary pension to save money. What a joke. It's about time the Public sector got a brush out. Plenty of dead wood needed to be got rid of at both the top and bottom.

nick
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 17:43
No Nick, i think you are missing my point.
The conservatives say that public sector pay and conditions are unsustainable.
My point is if this is true then the people at the top should start first.
For example the prime minister should come out first and offer to take a cut.
Also all MPs and councillors should take a pay cut, they are all overpaid public servants.
Show me evidence that this is happening and i'll happily agree with you  :smiley:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: simonpolly on 05 July 2011, 19:47
Speaking as a Shropshire council tax payer I say sack the lot of them  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: MrBounce on 05 July 2011, 19:58
The main issue with Councils is not the "bread and butter" workers or the very top earners. It's the middle managers who have been there for years and are utterly ineffective at what they do. I have worked in both the public and private sector and what generally happens is when there is training the Managers don't bother to learn new stuff, they simply delegate.

They end up with virually no skills (or those which are outdated) and when they actually have to do something they turn out to be completely hopeless. Someone needs to do an Alan Sugar and get the whole lot into a boardroom and make them actually prove their worth...

(http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s353/MrBounce38/image_108_18.jpg)
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 05 July 2011, 20:10
 :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

this still going  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Jay on 05 July 2011, 20:12
http://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/members-faq-page2/

That answers a lot of questions as to how much they get paid, still quite high and should be lower imo.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 20:19
Speaking as a Shropshire council tax payer I say sack the lot of them  :grin:

Excellent  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 20:20
this still going  :rolleyes:

Don't be such a killjoy  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: The Doc on 05 July 2011, 20:21
because I'm awesome.

I like the cut of your jib  :wink:

Hard times for all it would seem but as this post echoes be thankful for the job you have.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 05 July 2011, 20:22
this still going  :rolleyes:

Don't be such a killjoy  :grin:

i havent locked it,  :tongue:

Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 20:24
this still going  :rolleyes:

Don't be such a killjoy  :grin:

i havent locked it,  :tongue:



That's because you love watching me argue with all the conservative voters on here  :tongue:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Jay on 05 July 2011, 20:25
because I'm awesome.

I like the cut of your jib  :wink:

Hard times for all it would seem but as this post echoes be thankful for the job you have.


I'll be thankful if I can still be p1ssed off with it?
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: simonpolly on 05 July 2011, 20:51
I may deliberately over fill my wheely bin and when the jobs worth bin man moans I shall say "no wonder you are all being sacked"   :grin: :laugh:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Diamond Hell on 05 July 2011, 20:55
That's because you love watching me argue with all the conservative voters on here  :tongue:

Odd, you come across as one of them, with a rolled up copy of the Daily Mail being shaken in one fist, a poorly spelled letter of complaint being waved in the other.

Public sector pay has accelerated away from that of the private sector alarmingly in the last decade.

It needs to be reined in.

Huge contributions to snivil servant's pensions need to be cut back, too.

They need to work until retirement age, the same as the rest of us.

Unless the top roles attract private sector competitive packages then they won't attract the top-flight people who should be the guiding hands of our elected representatives.  These roles need to be remunerated in a performance-related manner, though.  If the council fails on objective, outside-set-and-measured performance targets then big chunks of the high-level execs packages simply don't get paid, or have their contracts terminated.

The same goes for councillors and MPs - these people need to be properly remunerated, or you won't attract good quality people who will fulfill the roles competently and in a relatively moral way, acting in the best interests of their constituents.

There have been some completely disgusting contracts for things like 'interim executives' around here, which are being terminated, thanks to the freedom of information Act.  I've also seen party-affiliated councillors refusing to vote on key issues for their constituents because it's not the will of their party - always a delight to make them admit in a public meeting that they won't vote as their constituents clearly want.

The public sector has been massively bloated over the last decade.  It must be trimmed and down-sized appropriately.  It's going to hurt at the top and the bottom and in the middle.  This is similar to the pain being experienced in most areas of the private sector too.  We're all in this together, it hurts, deal with it.

I may deliberately over fill my wheely bin and when the jobs worth bin man moans I shall say "no wonder you are all being sacked"

You're a bit stupid aren't you?  The refuse collectors are normally a private firm working under contract, competitively tendered.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 05 July 2011, 20:59
there are tories on here  :shocked: :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Guy on 05 July 2011, 21:18
there are tories on here  :shocked: :lipsrsealed:

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfCeyuImEmuyDvV9iqgdQTX_qersojNd34OTAm9027CBylmJxp)
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Diamond Hell on 05 July 2011, 21:44
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfCeyuImEmuyDvV9iqgdQTX_qersojNd34OTAm9027CBylmJxp)

That's not a tory, that's an apology.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 21:45
Quote from: Diamond Hell
Odd, you come across as one of them, with a rolled up copy of the Daily Mail being shaken in one fist, a poorly spelled letter of complaint being waved in the other.

For a such an intelligent man, i must say i am very surprised you can't work out what my politics are.

Quote from: Diamond Hell
The public sector has been massively bloated over the last decade.  It must be trimmed and down-sized appropriately.  It's going to hurt at the top and the bottom and in the middle.  This is similar to the pain being experienced in most areas of the private sector too.  We're all in this together, it hurts, deal with it.

I would say the public sector has been bloated for alot longer than that. However the pain is going to be far more for people at the bottom.

Quote from: Diamond Hell
You're a bit stupid aren't you?  The refuse collectors are normally a private firm working under contract, competitively tendered

You really are a lovely man, aren't you? Do you actually behave like this in real life? i bet you don't or you wouldn't have such a nice smile  :huh:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 05 July 2011, 21:47
he is like this in real life  :grin: :laugh: but is all pink and fluffy on the inside  :kiss:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Diamond Hell on 05 July 2011, 21:48
You really are a lovely man, aren't you? Do you actually behave like this in real life? i bet you don't or you wouldn't have such a nice smile

You under-estimate me, by some considerable margin.

It's not your fault though.  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 21:51
You really are a lovely man, aren't you? Do you actually behave like this in real life? i bet you don't or you wouldn't have such a nice smile

You under-estimate me, by some considerable margin.

It's not your fault though.  :grin:

Really? maybe.
But it might actually be you underestimating me.
I'm coming over to the isle of wight later this year for a holiday, do you fancy a pint?  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Diamond Hell on 05 July 2011, 21:57
I'm coming over to the isle of wight later this year for a holiday, do you fancy a pint?  :grin:

No, I'm teetotal, but you'll find me at these events:

http://iow4x4club.co.uk/

Or in East Cowes most week-days.

Let me know if you need accommodation, as we have some very good self-catering accommodation properties available.  One of them is single floor, with level access, which might be ideal as I suspect you struggle with stairs.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 05 July 2011, 22:00
Quote from: Diamond Hell
Let me know if you need accommodation, as we have some very good self-catering accommodation properties available.  One of them is single floor, with level access, which might be ideal as I suspect you struggle with stairs.

That's right. If you keep goading me i'm going to hit you with my walking stick  :grin:
Stick to being a keyboard warrior  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: The Doc on 05 July 2011, 22:12
One of them is single floor, with level access, which might be ideal as I suspect you struggle with stairs.

The Doc laughed out lound, then laughed some more, thank you.
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Guy on 05 July 2011, 23:54
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfCeyuImEmuyDvV9iqgdQTX_qersojNd34OTAm9027CBylmJxp)

That's not a tory, that's an apology.

your other [main] choices at the time were

(http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/news/16920/GordonBrown-L.jpg)

(http://wordpress.yell.com/solicitors/files/2010/11/clegg-204x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 06 July 2011, 00:18
The biggest fraud out of the three is Nick Clegg  :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: JC on 06 July 2011, 06:23
The biggest fraud out of the three is Nick Clegg  :grin:

owned a mk3 i heard , 8v to boot  :undecided:


 :grin:
Title: Re: Shropshire Council to dismiss all staff
Post by: Guy on 06 July 2011, 07:34
The biggest fraud out of the three is Nick Clegg  :grin:

owned a mk3 i heard , 8v to boot  :undecided:


 :grin:

i thought it was Gordon Brown that ran the sinking ship? ta-boom-tish!  :grin: