GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: dazzifumi on 04 June 2011, 08:14
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is this a straight forward swap or does any thing need to be modified to make them fit thanks
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saab reds into AGU is straight swap.
AUM/AUQ different.
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i have a aum i'm currently gettin the stuff together for a k04 conversion and was wanting to know what injectors to buy
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is this a straight forward swap or does any thing need to be modified to make them fit thanks
You will also need to inrease the maf area by the same % of what the saab red have increased % over the stock injectors. This will keep the fuel trims with in reason.
Nick
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so bigger injectors always means bigger MAF?
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Yes
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could you just get a maf off a bam engine vag? would that be a good match?
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could you just get a maf off a bam engine vag? would that be a good match?
No not for AGU.
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so bigger injectors always means bigger MAF?
AGU / cable 1.8T / motronic 5 ecu / m3.8.* ecu
The AGU uses a narrow band ecu which every thing in the mapping ie primary fuel, timing and load is ALL based around the reading from the maf. The injection on-time is made up from maf reading, rpm and engine load. If you fit bigger injectors then the engine will run too rich and the ecu can only trim a small amount of the extra fuel by using the narrow band 02 readings.
If you change the MAF housing % size to the same % increase as the injectors then the ratio for injection ms and air drawn will be about spot on or within an ideal range for the ecu to trim by around 5-10%, then when is comes to mapping all we have to do is rescale the load axis on the ignition maps and fine tune the injection ms map, which can take a round a whole day to dial in from scratch. There is a way of just adding bigger injectors to the ecu but this mean changing the main global konstant ratio map, but doing this off sets all the map load axis and can take days of logging to rescale and get correct and will cost £100s.
AUM ARZ AUM ME7.5 ecu
These ecus allow just for the injectors to be fitted and just one map to be changed. The map KRKTE which means constant factor (K) for air flow (RK) to injection time (TE) just by changing this one map in the correct ratio to the injector size will allow the fuel to be near enough 100% bang on, The only other time the KRKTE map should be changed is when running a 4bar fuel reg, I would say 99.9% of all tuner who are mapping car with 4bar fuel regs are not doing changing this map which lead to high fuel trims and loss of power due to too much fuel lower down in the rpm range.... :wink:
So dont just go and fit a 4bar reg... it wont work right unless its been added in the mapping (check with your tuner that the KRKTE is set for a 4 bar reg.
A lot of the Seat 1.8t boys are just wacking 4bars reg on there car and making less power.. :smug:. Going for 600cc+ injectors then a few more map need to be chnaged to get it bang on.
In theory.. a cheat just by adding 30% bigger injectors and MAF will give 30% more load request which could work out to be around to 30+bhp with just stock mapping. It wont kick like a remap and the N75% mapping wont change enough and the load map in the ecu is still on a linear scale.
I hope this helps.. :laugh: sorry to bore you all :nerd:
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No much appreicated now know a bit about injectors and maping for the AGU now ! :evil:
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No much appreicated now know a bit about injectors and maping for the AGU now ! :evil:
What spec is your car and what are you planning to do? let me know and I will point you in the correct direction of doing it right, safe and cheap. :smiley:
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Think you did my mate Steve Tates Golf.... : Blue, AGU 1.8T GTI couple of months back down here in West Sussex? He reconmended you. Just getting it ready for it be maped at the moment with a forge RCV, and doing the oil pick up too..
Spec is 2000 GTI ,1.8T 150HP AGU
Current mods are: Air Filter and Custom / Powerflow Turbo back exhaust.
I'm aiming to have get it into the mid 200s...Been told with injectors that the 380cc are the ones to go for? What maf would I have to get?
And plan is to have it cammed and have the K04 turbo, aftermarket intercooler, 380cc injectors so wondered if it would be best to just have it maped after this?
Although I've been told that after the R-tech map just from Steve's AGU Golf with just a 007 RC DP, and decat that it felt like a different car and as quick as a 32, so wondered whether to just get it maped in the next month or two with just the dump valve upgrade, air filter and turbo back exhaust for instant power gains for the dollar as opposed to doing all the above....then getting maped and spending thousands..
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so saab red injectors arent any good for AGU spec with LCR maf?
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so saab red injectors arent any good for AGU spec with LCR maf?
An LCR maf wont fit an AGU. :smiley: There are campanies who will make you custom maf tubes. The maf that fits the AGU will the the one of an old mk3 VR6.
Nick
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ok cheers, and a VR6 maf will be big enough to suit the red injectors?
What about the housing from a PD 130 passat, same fitment for sensor itself?
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Think you did my mate Steve Tates Golf.... : Blue, AGU 1.8T GTI couple of months back down here in West Sussex? He reconmended you. Just getting it ready for it be maped at the moment with a forge RCV, and doing the oil pick up too..
Spec is 2000 GTI ,1.8T 150HP AGU
Current mods are: Air Filter and Custom / Powerflow Turbo back exhaust.
I'm aiming to have get it into the mid 200s...Been told with injectors that the 380cc are the ones to go for? What maf would I have to get?
And plan is to have it cammed and have the K04 turbo, aftermarket intercooler, 380cc injectors so wondered if it would be best to just have it maped after this?
Although I've been told that after the R-tech map just from Steve's AGU Golf with just a 007 RC DP, and decat that it felt like a different car and as quick as a 32, so wondered whether to just get it maped in the next month or two with just the dump valve upgrade, air filter and turbo back exhaust for instant power gains for the dollar as opposed to doing all the above....then getting maped and spending thousands..
Geting it cammed will be a waste of time and money down the pan imho. If you going K04-023 setup then you will need 225lph fuel pump, THS FMIC, VR6 MAF, saab red 340cc @4bar or Genesis 380cc remap and then you looking at a max of 270bhp 280lbft
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ok cheers, and a VR6 maf will be big enough to suit the red injectors?
What about the housing from a PD 130 passat, same fitment for sensor itself?
hello, I have the same question,
because I have a VR6 maf and injectors saab red but I'm reading that the injectors to be put together with the vr6 maf are the yellow saab injectors
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ok cheers, and a VR6 maf will be big enough to suit the red injectors?
What about the housing from a PD 130 passat, same fitment for sensor itself?
hello, I have the same question,
because I have a VR6 maf and injectors saab red but I'm reading that the injectors to be put together with the vr6 maf are the yellow saab injectors
As long at the injectors are a close match % to the maf % then less work is needed in the map.
The AGU has a setpoint map for relative fuel mass v Air mass (Grundanpassungskonstante) the idea is not to change this map/or change it very little. When the Grundanpassungskonstante map gets changed is offsets all the load axis on the lambda and ignition maps which mean a hell of a lot of time rescaling the whole map so the ms% load axis reading match what the car is doing. The best way to do it is get the maf size and injector size about before mapping. Reds with VR6 maf is not going to take too much work so setup, maybe a day of logging fuel and load to get it 100%.
It took me a week to scale a set of 630cc injecotrs on an AGU with vr6 maf.
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Stock is 2.44" inner diameter good for 240cc
Vr6 maf is 2.75" inner diameter good for 310cc yellows
3" inner diameter good for 360cc
3.25" inner diameter good for 440cc
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Nick you got some part numbers for the various maf's you mentioned above, also I do have a second query.
I want the double blip on my AGU for pops, bangs and flames, I'm in kent and I've had stage 1 done by you guys, what would be the easiest way to achieve this?
Also is there an easy way to increase limiter a tad, I read I can only lower the rev limter via vag com but not increase it which makes no sense.
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Stock is 2.44" inner diameter good for 240cc
Vr6 maf is 2.75" inner diameter good for 310cc yellows
3" inner diameter good for 360cc
3.25" inner diameter good for 440cc
RTechUK thank you very much, now I have a revo stage 2 and I wanted to change the injectors to have more margin in the repro, if I put the yellow saab injectors and map vr6 I will not have to change anything in the ecu? It's because I live here in Madrid and few people know the AGU, so I did not want to have to change the ecu.
Here give me more info: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=217615.0
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Nick you got some part numbers for the various maf's you mentioned above, also I do have a second query.
I want the double blip on my AGU for pops, bangs and flames, I'm in kent and I've had stage 1 done by you guys, what would be the easiest way to achieve this?
Also is there an easy way to increase limiter a tad, I read I can only lower the rev limter via vag com but not increase it which makes no sense.
Are you still reading up on AGU maps? RPM limiter via VCDS is only an Eeprom adaption channel not the limiter.
28 x 1x1 8bit limiters @ 170 x 40 = 6800rpm You wont find it in many A2L or Damos files. Are you still reading up on AGU maps?
Chris failed due to a big end bearing, he had bad coil packs and washed the oil out with petrol and cause the oil to thin and failed, I have many of stock engine AUM AGU AUQ running 7500rpm on request, some running 8000rpm without issues.
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oops
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Was definately not down to the limiter, like I first thought.
As nick said, the oil was very runny and I ahd issues with AGU coilpacks over 240bhp, this took near enough all day to fix and occasionally we did have a slight misfire with 4 brand new ones from VW. Probably didnt help that I put my bottom end caps on back to front either...but live and learn, still trying to source either another crank and rods or a 1.8T lump to put back in.
Nick you got some part numbers for the various maf's you mentioned above, also I do have a second query.
I want the double blip on my AGU for pops, bangs and flames, I'm in kent and I've had stage 1 done by you guys, what would be the easiest way to achieve this?
Also is there an easy way to increase limiter a tad, I read I can only lower the rev limter via vag com but not increase it which makes no sense.
You should be able to get some decent pops/flames anyhow, once you know how to get them. I usually find 2nd gear at 30mph, after a second or 2 full throttle and a second overrun and a tap of accelerator gets some rather huge flames.
Nick you got some part numbers for the various maf's you mentioned above, also I do have a second query.
I want the double blip on my AGU for pops, bangs and flames, I'm in kent and I've had stage 1 done by you guys, what would be the easiest way to achieve this?
Also is there an easy way to increase limiter a tad, I read I can only lower the rev limter via vag com but not increase it which makes no sense.
Are you still reading up on AGU maps? RPM limiter via VCDS is only an Eeprom adaption channel not the limiter.
28 x 1x1 8bit limiters @ 170 x 40 = 6800rpm You wont find it in many A2L or Damos files. Are you still reading up on AGU maps?
Will have a look for that in my files I have here [:D] keep me occupied for a good while, same as how the RPM scales are worked out....bloody confusing sites with poor information!
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o isee!!!! cheers for that :)
chris... honestly seems like something id do! aha well like you say live and learn
:grin:
i remember trying to put the steering rackcclamp on for 3 hours.... the wrong way round
I had pictures everything. So I can only think of the engine was the wrong way round (or I was stood at wrong side) when i put them on. Should have marked them up! Dont think I could have helped the oil though. I remember checking which way the pistons went aswell LOL.
I want to find a crank and get her built back up with a set of rods in ready for more power. If not, Ill get a stock block, or buy this one off my mate.
Definately looking into water meth and a inlet cam later on in the year though.
Big plans for 2012 with this!
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Still reading, just not as much. Would be easier if I could access the eeprom via OBD. I use to have a multi ic reader at my old work place, wish I took it when I left. I can't even find my card reader that I use to use on satellite cards etc since I've moved.
I really need to pop down to you guys in the new tax year to learn a thing or two as there's so many maps and locations and I still not decided on which software to fully play around with.
Also what was the highest rpm you achieved safely as 8000 sounds good for 1st and 2nd gear around the bends.
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i think 8000rpm maybe abit much on standard head, read a few horror stories of valve heads snapping and springs not being able to lift them fast enough causing piston impact at around 7500rpm, im looking at getting a high limiter on my big turbo but with fully built head
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Still reading, just not as much. Would be easier if I could access the eeprom via OBD. I use to have a multi ic reader at my old work place, wish I took it when I left. I can't even find my card reader that I use to use on satellite cards etc since I've moved.
I really need to pop down to you guys in the new tax year to learn a thing or two as there's so many maps and locations and I still not decided on which software to fully play around with.
Also what was the highest rpm you achieved safely as 8000 sounds good for 1st and 2nd gear around the bends.
You managed to find much too? Im doing a bit reading aswell
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so bigger injectors always means bigger MAF?
AGU / cable 1.8T / motronic 5 ecu / m3.8.* ecu
The AGU uses a narrow band ecu which every thing in the mapping ie primary fuel, timing and load is ALL based around the reading from the maf. The injection on-time is made up from maf reading, rpm and engine load. If you fit bigger injectors then the engine will run too rich and the ecu can only trim a small amount of the extra fuel by using the narrow band 02 readings.
If you change the MAF housing % size to the same % increase as the injectors then the ratio for injection ms and air drawn will be about spot on or within an ideal range for the ecu to trim by around 5-10%, then when is comes to mapping all we have to do is rescale the load axis on the ignition maps and fine tune the injection ms map, which can take a round a whole day to dial in from scratch. There is a way of just adding bigger injectors to the ecu but this mean changing the main global konstant ratio map, but doing this off sets all the map load axis and can take days of logging to rescale and get correct and will cost £100s.
AUM ARZ AUM ME7.5 ecu
These ecus allow just for the injectors to be fitted and just one map to be changed. The map KRKTE which means constant factor (K) for air flow (RK) to injection time (TE) just by changing this one map in the correct ratio to the injector size will allow the fuel to be near enough 100% bang on, The only other time the KRKTE map should be changed is when running a 4bar fuel reg, I would say 99.9% of all tuner who are mapping car with 4bar fuel regs are not doing changing this map which lead to high fuel trims and loss of power due to too much fuel lower down in the rpm range.... :wink:
So dont just go and fit a 4bar reg... it wont work right unless its been added in the mapping (check with your tuner that the KRKTE is set for a 4 bar reg.
A lot of the Seat 1.8t boys are just wacking 4bars reg on there car and making less power.. :smug:. Going for 600cc+ injectors then a few more map need to be chnaged to get it bang on.
In theory.. a cheat just by adding 30% bigger injectors and MAF will give 30% more load request which could work out to be around to 30+bhp with just stock mapping. It wont kick like a remap and the N75% mapping wont change enough and the load map in the ecu is still on a linear scale.
I hope this helps.. :laugh: sorry to bore you all :nerd:
:shocked:
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hi the reference of yellow saab injectors is 0280150711?