GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Rachie.V1 on 29 May 2011, 20:01
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Hi there, I'm new to the site and I've just got myself a mk3 golf 8v gti! (i know people say they're 'crap' and nothing on the 16v but it's gonna be my first car and i love the mk3 shape!)
ANYWAY! Since my partner is now working in a body shop i'm waiting on him to get some free time to sort the body work out for me, so while i'm waiting on that (which could be forever! haha) i want to upgrade the engine as much as i can, just to try and put my partners car (a 2.5 v6 cougar) to shame, ahah. If anyone has any ideas on the best things to do, EXCEPT for an engine conversion because i don't think i'd be able to afford that yet but i am keeping my eye out for a cheapish vr6 engine...
Like I said, if anyone has any good ideas on some good engine improvement mods please help 'cause I'm still learning about the engine! :sad:
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Well it is an 8v with 115bhp, the cougar is 170bhp not much you can do to make yours as quick as that without changing the engine.
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His deffo hasn't got that anymore, believe me and it's that heavy that it doesn't actually pull off that fast, for what you'd think anyway. He's said already mine pulls off alot faster but i wanna improve the engine anyway, so any ideas are appreciated...
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His deffo hasn't got that anymore, believe me and it's that heavy that it doesn't actually pull off that fast, for what you'd think anyway. He's said already mine pulls off alot faster but i wanna improve the engine anyway, so any ideas are appreciated...
Well yes you can do mods, but any gains are so small it is not really worth it.
You would have been better starting with a 16v
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considering it cost me absolutely feck all and it's for my first car, i'm actually really happy with what i got, atleast it's not a sh!tty 1.0l corsa or something.
how much is a vr6 engine about? i've found a few on ebay seems to be between £350 - £550, I'm tempted to save up and get my mate to it it all in for me and all the other obvious upgrades... BUT! Is there any other engines i can consider putting in? Maybe something abit different?
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considering it cost me absolutely feck all and it's for my first car, i'm actually really happy with what i got, atleast it's not a sh!tty 1.0l corsa or something.
how much is a vr6 engine about? i've found a few on ebay seems to be between £350 - £550, I'm tempted to save up and get my mate to it it all in for me and all the other obvious upgrades... BUT! Is there any other engines i can consider putting in? Maybe something abit different?
Have a read of this thread: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=124485.0
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oh god thats just baffling! haha.
so if i buy a engine with the gearbox and ecu included what else do i need? sorry i'm not thick, well questionable atm but is that it...?
i suppose having a proper read when i'm on a proper comp would be beneficial, shame i don't have my own!
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engine, box, loom, ecu, running gear, if you wanna do stuff to a 8v your not going to improve it massively i have done cams, exhaust, cold air feed, panal filter, chiped, 4 branch, gas flowed throttle body, couple of other bits but if cash is not much of a issue get a rusted vr 6 and scrap the shel keep the rest of it the bits you dont need brake down and gaybay them
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Agreed with the above, your best bet is to fit a different engine. If you want to throw a VR6 lump in then your best bet is to buy a donor car, strip the parts you need and break the rest to make your money back :wink:
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I can't even imagine what the insurance would be on a standard VR6 for a new driver let alone a modified VR6 transplanted into an 8v shell? :shocked: :shocked:
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I can't even imagine what the insurance would be on a standard VR6 for a new driver let alone a modified VR6 transplanted into an 8v shell? :shocked: :shocked:
agreed if you can afford the insurance as a first driver on a vr6 then you may as well sell the car and buy a vr6. you can get them cheap enough these days
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If you want to push the gti engine as far as you can....
Port and polish cylinder head, and fit with high lift cams
Fit a good 4-2-1 manifold, decat and straight through system to a high flow back box
Fit lightened fly wheel and uprated clutch while your there (if your into that sort of thing, but it wont make enough power to need a clutch)
Chip the ECU if you can find a decent chip for it
Fit adjustable fuel pressure regulator and ramp it up a bit.
The engine will feel more responsive, much more revvy, but be warned with the high lift cams, the engine will run lumpy at idle, if you hold the valves open long enough it will want to stall at idle, thats fine but with a light flywheel, you might need to permanently increase idle.
Fit a good cold air induction kit.
Expect 120-130bhp depending on how well you did it and how far you pushed it.
Oh and with all this your MPG will probably be worse than a VR6 :grin:
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I can't even imagine what the insurance would be on a standard VR6 for a new driver let alone a modified VR6 transplanted into an 8v shell? :shocked: :shocked:
Expensive :grin:
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Reckon I'll just buy a donor car, want to make it a proper project since I've not got any other hobbies to do, since my hobby is my job! Haha.
Insurance isn't a bother, I have a few bob saved for that and I don't smoke or drink so I can deffo afford the mon thly payments, haha. Worth it if it's a car I'm going to enjoy!
Thanks for all the inputs though :)
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Would it not be easer to buy a VR6 :smiley:
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Why buy a donor car, take the engine's gearboxes, wire loom, ecu, etc and swap them over?
Sell the 8v and buy a vr6 with the money. No loss but a 60bhp power gain :laugh:
If you say you can't afford the insurance, then you can't afford a donor car. So buy a vr6 and with the money you was going to use to buy a donor car, put it on the insurance.
If you want to put a vr6 engine in a 8v and then insure it as a 8v, I'll grass you up :wink:
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Nah gonna buy a cheap donor so I can do it all myself/with friends. Built not bought and all that sh!t...
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Nah gonna buy a cheap donor so I can do it all myself/with friends. Built not bought and all that sh!t...
Your not making sense to me, sorry.
"I bought a vr6 and then built a 8v gti with a vr6 engine" :laugh:
Why do a engine conversion when you can buy the same car with it already fitted?
Why not get a 1.8 20v turbo engine? That will make sense.
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I said I'm going to buy a donor so probably a cat c or something. I can afford insurance and a donor car, so why do I have to buy a vr6 with all the work done when I want something I can say I've done myself?
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That and the 1.8 turbo engine is alotttt more on insurance! Can't do that for awhile and don't fancy doing a fraudulent claim ;)
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I said I'm going to buy a donor so probably a cat c or something. I can afford insurance and a donor car, so why do I have to buy a vr6 with all the work done when I want something I can say I've done myself?
Because it's absolutely pointless/costly/time consuming to buy a donor car and transplant the engine considering how cheap VR's are at the moment :undecided:
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How's it costly when I have a mechanic partner who's going to help me do it? Time consuming yeah, but like I've said repeatedly now it's going to be a project, something I can do myself and learn with. What will I learn from having the engine I want already in the car? It'd be time consuming and pointless doing that as I'd be taking it out to fiddle with for NO reason as it's already there?!
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If you have ever done an engine conversion... you will know how many other parts you will need, and how many things should be changed for new parts, and what may be found to be faulty/break when removing, otherwise you have a car with a nice engine, but knowing its not done well, or not perfect. Might just be me but i have to replace everything i come across.
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if that happens, it happens but I'd rather have something I done myself. End of the day I don't need the car yet and it'll be my something to do out of work hours, so I don't see what the big problem is in me wanting to swap the engine over and not just buy the car?
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Go for it. These things don't take too long to do. I'm about to swap my engine out my mk2 to put intoi another. I find it enjoyable to do but then am a mechanic so I should enjoy the stress of things going wrong
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Fair play to ya :afro: You will learn a lot doing it, if you get stuck in and don't leave it to ya partner lol There are vr6 bargains to be had. Buy one with bad rust or something and take everything you need.
We will help you out if you get stuck.
Still going to say sell the 8v and buy a vr6 lol I have both hahaha
I bought a mint gti 8v and then bought a vr6 that just had a engine rebuild to put in the 8v, But I just can't do it, both cars are too nice to break up.
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I'd have 2 cars but paying the insurance for both seems pointless when i know which one i'd rather drive, aha.
I'm gonna get as stuck in as I can and leave less for him to moan about, haha. I have a good few friends who're mechanics so I have a few people to fall back on if he gets fed up of my moaning too :P haha.
I've found a few around the 300 mark so i'm waiting to hear back on them, i reaaaally like their interiors too so it saves me paying out separately i guess! if anyone see's/hears of any around that price let me know :D even if the engines need abit of work i'm pretty sure we can get it running again. all in the fun of it eh!
really appreciate the input though guys! now i'm looking at some vr6 bits and bobs, if anyone wants to name some engine improvements, be my guest all help is appreciated :P
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I said I'm going to buy a donor so probably a cat c or something. I can afford insurance and a donor car, so
why do I have to buy a vr6 with all the work done when I want something I can say I've done myself?
Because it's absolutely pointless/costly/time consuming to buy a donor car and transplant the engine considering how cheap VR's are at the moment :undecided:
Spot on Dom :afro:
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I'm thinking about sticking a 1.4 lump in my 2.0 16v just so that i can i say I did it all myself. :rolleyes:
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Unless the 8v shell is in a very good condition or you have done lots of work to it then I wouldn't break a sweat over it.
It's much easier to give it a nice clean and sell it on, using the money raised to buy a VR6. As Dom said they don't cost much nowadays.
It's not just the engine, box and loom that you'll change. Once the engine is out you'll want to do the clutch, or the headgasket, or this or that. You'll want new engine mounts and any other bits that will be easy to access with engine out (not to mention timing chains, especially important on the VR6).
Trust me it's not just the cost of buying the donor car, it's the cost of buying all the other bits you need.
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Bit harsh? We all know the 8v is a bit of a dead end as far as more power is concerned but it never seems to stop being a bone of contention. Sometimes people just want to experiment and see what works for them so its all good in the 'hood AFAIC.
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Bit harsh? We all know the 8v is a bit of a dead end as far as more power is concerned but it never seems to stop being a bone of contention. Sometimes people just want to experiment and see what works for them so its all good in the 'hood AFAIC.
That's great, and I don't deny trying stuff. But as many in this forum know I spent a lot of time tinkering with my 8v and after a lot of money spent I came to the conclusion that in terms of value for money it just doesn't cut it. I got mine to 138hp and gave up at that. I'd need to spend so much to see past 150hp, which is standard power on a 16v...
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That's great, and I don't deny trying stuff. But as many in this forum know I spent a lot of time tinkering with my 8v and after a lot of money spent I came to the conclusion that in terms of value for money it just doesn't cut it. I got mine to 138hp and gave up at that. I'd need to spend so much to see past 150hp, which is standard power on a 16v...
Agreed, completely. A lot of people not as clued up think "golf GTI = fast" cheap to make FASTER! And tbh I can understand this completely as I thought the very same many years ago when i bought my first mk2 8v GTI. I've never been one for power myself (hence the reason I have an 8v, because at my age (38) I can certainly afford to insure a VR or a valver....but you get used to what you've got and the urge to tinker is irresistable, so whilst flinging on a panel filter, drilling the airbox and fitting a freeflow exhaust doesn't add much more than about 2 horses to a healthy engine, its still good to do and shouldn't be discouraged IMO. And if you want to take it further and experiment with bigger things thats cool too.
just my tuppence.
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Money and time are not an issue atall, to me it's all about learning and doing it myself. Like I said my hobby is my job so I need something else to do which I can be satisfied about at the end.
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Would the Mk5 gti turbo engine fit in? Found one for really cheap and i'm deffo up for that challenge. Haha.
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Yeh with some work it'll fit. Anything is possible
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Really? Oh I'm really tempted, it'd be a good little project I think! Keep me busy for awhile, haha.
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Would the Mk5 gti turbo engine fit in? Found one for really cheap and i'm deffo up for that challenge. Haha.
Pain in the a$$ as its a completely different fueling system. Plus its canbus, which will make the wiring fun for you.
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Let's,not forget about changing the pedal box over as the 8v is rod shift and cable clutch whereas the VR6 is cable shift and hydro clutch
You'll be wanting to upgrade the brakes and suspension as well....
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It is seriously tempting no matter the work but, looks like I'm sticking to the vr6 unless I can get the other abit cheaper and I'll put it in something else at a later date! Hmmm.
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Let's,not forget about changing the pedal box over as the 8v is rod shift and cable clutch whereas the VR6 is cable shift and hydro clutch
You'll be wanting to upgrade the brakes and suspension as well....
No need. All you need to do is remove the blanking plate were the clutch cylinder goes. Only 2 screws.
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Let's,not forget about changing the pedal box over as the 8v is rod shift and cable clutch whereas the VR6 is cable shift and hydro clutch
You'll be wanting to upgrade the brakes and suspension as well....
No need. All you need to do is remove the blanking plate were the clutch cylinder goes. Only 2 screws.
Going be Kells build thread the early pedal box is different and does not have a blanking plate.
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Don't know Wayne, mine is 1995 with the early square side indicators and it had the blanking plate. May be different for the very first few Mk3's then :smiley:
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Mine's a 92 so sounds like it'd be different! fun fun, eh!
I'm sticking to a vr6 anyway, gonna get a sh!tted up one and swap it over to the gti when his body work/resprays finished. woop!
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Don't know Wayne, mine is 1995 with the early square side indicators and it had the blanking plate. May be different for the very first few Mk3's then :smiley:
Kells' is a '92 and they defo had problems due to it not having a blanking plate. I guess they changed it within the first few years of production :smiley:
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I'm going to sound harsh, but...your all way old before your time! It was decided that it was a VR6 swap, deal with it. We all know it's easier to buy of the shelf, don't mean it's the most fun.
She aint come on here for financial advise... it's not GolfgtiAndHowToSpendYourMoney.co.uk
Surely that's an ideal coversion to learn, all the bits are there in the donor and accessible, right?
I'm sick of these threads..
Rant over
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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I still think it's a pointless conversion to do when when you consider a donor and ancillarys will cost as much as a reasonably decent and complete factory VR6.
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I still think it's a pointless conversion to do when when you consider a donor and ancillarys will cost as much as a reasonably decent and complete factory VR6.
:afro:
Say you spend £500 on a donor motor with all the bits. Sell your car for whatever you think it's worth (an 8v in good nick is worth about £900), then stick that £500 on top. £1400 certainly gets you a very mint VR6.
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I still think it's a pointless conversion to do when when you consider a donor and ancillarys will cost as much as a reasonably decent and complete factory VR6.
Exactly :afro:
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It's all very well wanting to learn how to do something but why make life harder and waste time, effort and money in the process? It just doesn't add up to me.
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thanks for that! :)
i think you all need to accept that this is my car and i'm doing it because i want to, cheers for the advice people have given on how to do it etc but like he said, i didn't ask how to spend my money. :)
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I understand that people are only trying to help, and of course the first question is "Why don't you just buy one" if they don't want to, then it should be left at that. That's all i'm saying...
No everyone is in a position where money is tight, i certainly don't want to do things cheaply if i'm going to do something. If the person has the resources, money and enthusiasm. Then i say go for it :afro:
Why does everything have to be about money, and following a script.. There isn't a certain way to live your life..how boring would that be..
If i were to get more enjoyment out of putting a VR engine in then buying one at twice the cost..i know what i'm going to do...get the tools out...
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See, the reason I'm doing it is because I've got a an 8v which the bodywork is immaculate and it has uprated suspension and custom exhaust on it and has already had the aerial smoothed out properly and the side repeaters, aswell as debadged properly, de wipered and just had brand new sills welded on.
I got it for literally nothing from a friend who works for a scrap yard type place, so putting a vr6 in it is just fun for me! like i said, i don't smoke or drink alot so i have the money to spare, as well as the time now! :) also gives me something for me and my partner to do together.
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Furry muff :smiley:
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I think the most shocking part of this thread is she's found a mk3 with no rust on it :shocked: :grin:
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Haha yep completely rust free! He's a little trooper he is, his engine!engine bay however isn't in the best of shape, haha.
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See, the reason I'm doing it is because I've got a an 8v which the bodywork is immaculate and it has uprated suspension and custom exhaust on it and has already had the aerial smoothed out properly and the side repeaters, aswell as debadged properly, de wipered and just had brand new sills welded on.
I got it for literally nothing from a friend who works for a scrap yard type place, so putting a vr6 in it is just fun for me! like i said, i don't smoke or drink alot so i have the money to spare, as well as the time now! :) also gives me something for me and my partner to do together.
See if you'd said all of that at the start most of this thread wouldn't have happened :rolleyes:
I still think that VR6 conversion is pointless, get yourself a 1.8T lump whacked in :wink:
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I don't think I could insure the 1.8 turbo. If I could find one about the same price range I would, maybe... Lol.
I don't see the need to explain myself when I only asked for help, lol.
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I don't think I could insure the 1.8 turbo. If I could find one about the same price range I would, maybe... Lol.
I don't see the need to explain myself when I only asked for help, lol.
It's because the initial thought is, Vr6 conversion, into another mk3..save money, there's a recession! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! :laugh: :laugh:
So a little bit of explaining will get the b@stards onboard :smiley:
Specially Shady, he's the biggest of them all!
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I don't think I could insure the 1.8 turbo. If I could find one about the same price range I would, maybe... Lol.
Well whatever happens your insuring a conversion so if you look into it you may find a 1.8t is not much expensive than a VR6
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Pictures of your car or it never happened!
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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And tell your partner to post in here:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=176576.0
:evil: :evil:
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If I can find a 1.8 turbo then yeah fair enough or if anyone finds one, lemme know like. Lol.
I'll get some pics when his resprays done, if I decide on a colour... Whoops.
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If I can find a 1.8 turbo then yeah fair enough or if anyone finds one, lemme know like. Lol.
I'll get some pics when his resprays done, if I decide on a colour... Whoops.
porsche brown :cool: