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General => General discussion => Topic started by: Shady Pioneer on 23 May 2011, 18:11
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http://www.confused.com/featured-articles/motoring/car-insurance/radical-driving-licence-changes-put-to-parliament-353126319?MediaCode=806&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter23May&utm_content=May
Discuss.
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They do this in some states in America. Other than that, no comment
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cant see the problem with it meself :smiley:
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Imo they should just ban alcohol. I don't and have never drunk n drive and my insurance won't cover me if I do.
I'm not sure, I've been driving a year and apart from the cockup yesterday have had no troubles.
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I can think of better ways to reduce young driver deaths than banning them from using the motorway or now allowing them to drive at night.
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d
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If it means less rozzers on the road on an evening... i am all for it!! :evil: :evil:
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though this bit is bullsh!t
"The insurance industry is supporting the campaign in the hope that reducing road deaths will bring down risk and cut the cost of car insurance for everyone, especially young people and new drivers"
like that will ever happen
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F*ck me motorway driving is the safest, easiest form of driving. Just man-up and use your mirrors! Why stop young'uns from using it? Ensure they have driving time on motorways during their lessons (if not the test itself), and also ensure they have chance to drive at night and in rain. I've heard many a young'un not willing to drive at night because they've had no experience. Also these young'uns relying on using the rev counter for changing gears??!? Whatever next?
They should be made to take tests in mk1 fiestas, no pas, no abs, no rev counter.... perfect that and we may have some safer young drivers around!
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This is what I never get about parents and motorways, 'Be bloody carefull on the motorways' just completely ignoring the 20odd miles of twisty non lit B and A roads leading to the 'dangerous' motorways :grin:
Having said that 2 days after passing my test I drove to Scotland and back :grin:
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BHP restriction for new drivers IMO
Stop rich parents buying sons M3's ect.
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tried all that with bikes, small cc etc etc , it failed :rolleyes:
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tried all that with bikes, small cc etc etc , it failed :rolleyes:
sh!t shouldnt of pulled out then, I will just have to use my 49cc of raw power to get out of danger :lipsrsealed:
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BHP restriction for new drivers IMO
Stop rich parents buying sons M3's ect.
This is the one I'd push forward. If my friend Steve didn't have a 200hp+ Leon Cupra he most likely wouldn't have been killed. RIP, one year yesterday :sad:
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BHP restriction for new drivers IMO
Stop rich parents buying sons M3's ect.
This is the one I'd push forward. If my friend Steve didn't have a 200hp+ Leon Cupra he most likely wouldn't have been killed. RIP, one year yesterday :sad:
Sorry to hear that dude, how are the flowers doing :smiley:
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Post License Skid Pad Lessons and free race track evenings.
Or go the Finnish route and learn to be a Rally Driver, if you want to win, employ a Fin!
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Sorry to hear that dude, how are the flowers doing :smiley:
I haven't stopped at the crash site since planting them last year, but from driving past I can't see any :sad: I need to pull over soon and check up. I need to leave a bunch of flowers there for him.
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It's not the test, it's being young. No matter how difficult the test, as soon as they are out with their mates the hormones take over and before you know it you're on fire going backwards into a hedge.
No amount of training will make up for common sense, which you learn over time. Although some never do.
Sad fact, but a fact none the less.
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Ima firm believer that the reason kids die at high speeds is 100% down to inexperience! The test we have to do covers what they think to be useful but imo it should be mandatory to study more real life situations like ice, breaking/cornering at high speeds, counter-steering a snake etc etc. This would help much more and not effect peoples livelihoods
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It's not the test, it's being young. No matter how difficult the test, as soon as they are out with their mates the hormones take over and before you know it you're on fire going backwards into a hedge.
No amount of training will make up for common sense, which you learn over time. Although some never do.
Sad fact, but a fact none the less.
Very true
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My first car was a 4 litre jeep cherokee :grin: but I did get my first car at 13 and played rally driver in my fields and on friends farms pretty much once a week until I passed at 17. Now thats a good way to learn how to drive (could powerslide my jeep on wet roundabouts all day long as soon as I passed :lipsrsealed: ) We wrote off a few cars on the farms by been simply retarded, you ever seen a pug 105 jump a lincolnshire 10ft irrigation ditch? No didnt think so, nor did we because it didnt make it :grin:
But on a serious note, I dont beleive that my reactions and driving 'skills' would be anywhere near what they are (not saying im ossum) without those years of skidding about and have definately saved my skin a few times.
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Rather than teaching what we need to know to pass the test, drivers should be taught how to drive on a motorway, on a skid pan, bad conditions etc
Also, the instructors cars are always brand new and have every safety gizmo under the sun. To go from that to a car with no power steering, abs or airbag, which is what usually happens as its all we can afford to buy and insure is ridiculus. You get taught to brake with abs, but once you've passed its up to you to work it out
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they sholud change the test to the same as finlands
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What about the recent law that 18 year olds can now drive hgv's will it mean they no longer can :undecided:
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Typical government, putting up barriers and not looking to improve things where it really matters.
Limiting the BHP in conjunction with improved training and awareness and making the test harder would be a better step and would reduce imbeciles on the roads. Also not giving them a provisional license until they have sat and passed their theory would instantly mean a reduction of imbeciles on the roads, until they have an idea of what is out on the roads. My driving instructor said to me that most of her students already had cars and drove around without a licensed driver in the car with them. Ofc, this may just mean more unlicensed/uninsured imbeciles are on the road.
I could think of many ways to decrease the % of imbeciles, but banning new drivers from 'essential' experience is not the way.
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I think they should be targetting older drivers also especially those with no idea of the difference between the accelerator & the brake.
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i agree that driver training needs to be better, as with caistor i learnt to drive in fields which gave me the essential skills to control a slide even if it is caused by applying the handbrake :laugh:, this has saved my bacon on the road as three months after passing my test i hit black ice on my way to work one morning and before i knew it i was going sideways but had already started to apply opposite lock as an almost instinct reaction, if i hadn't been pissing about in fields with cars i would not have known what to do and would more than likely have landed in the ditch
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BHP restriction for new drivers IMO
Stop rich parents buying sons M3's ect.
A big +1
Local race tracks of some sort too so new drivers can let off steam and practice their driving skills without risking the lives of others ( i will be there too :wink:)
seriously though when i was younger (in the early 90's)we used to go to a retail park at a mc donalds, mc d's made a bomb out of us, we all had a bit of fun racing across the car park, which was pretty big :cool: and no one got hurt.
Police would come to the car park but no one got booked :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
in the end though some killjoy fitted barriers to the car park that closed it after 8pm :sad:
It kept a load of us off the streets thou for a couple of years. :wink:
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I do think there should be restrictions on the power output of car someone can drive, up until an age of say 21 then let them drive what they want. I know that someobody can still kill someone driving like an idiot in a fiat panda, but they are far less likely to show off in that than in a hot hatch.
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Yeh restricting bhp wont do jack, you can still get a 1.1 up to 100mph and wang it round a corner to fast. All about the training :afro:
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I do think there should be restrictions on the power output of car someone can drive, up until an age of say 21 then let them drive what they want. I know that someobody can still kill someone driving like an idiot in a fiat panda, but they are far less likely to show off in that than in a hot hatch.
BHP caps are flawed...
Lets say we cap BHP to 100bhp.
100bhp in a tin can (i.e. 106) is pretty rapid, and a 106 at speed is likely to become squashed in a crash.
Is this or is this not more dangerous than say 110bhp in a mondeo (which would take PROBABLY a million years to reach the national speed limit)
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Yea ban young drivers from Motorways! yah!
Well they get no tuition on it so why should they pass the driving test and immediately be able to drive on them!?
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Whilst I'd welcome making driving on motorways part of the training how would you enforce it in areas which are miles away from motorways??
The nearest stretch of motorway when I lived back home was 50 miles away..........
BHP won't work. The Nissan Micra I used had 75bhp and was good for triple figures :lipsrsealed:
The training needs and should include ALL aspects of driving from night to poor conditions. Training on different types of roads is the hardest part as some people don't live near these types of roads i.e I didn't as per the above
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Issues IMO.
-Taught to emergancy stop by whacking.in the brakes and maintaining pressure. Fine if you're in the little Corsa I learned in, do that in a country lane in my MK3 and it will go sideways. I was never taught anything other then whack on the brake, I already worked it out tho.
- Understeer. Go round a roundabout and even my 1.6 will suddenly understeer if you gun it in 2nd or 3rd.
- Oversteer and how just lifting off makes it worse.
- Brake fade in older cars, this, linked with:
-How much more braking required with a full car
Nearly had a nasty accident cause I went downhill, off a slip road and brake fade and the extra weight made the braking distance double, without locking up, easy. Luckilly it's a do it once and learn thing.
No motorway teaching at all. I just went on it and leanrt as I went. Ok I was fine but still.
They need to focus on bad condition driving and not use new cars. Make a crash course on skid pans etc in old bangers.
Somehow make it easy for people to understand over and undeesteer.
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The Bellend makes a good point about teaching people in older cars. It's not very often younger drivers get to buy a car similar to that they had learnt in. No ABS, no power steering etc.
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When I got my first car back in '93 (16-year old Mini 1000) I went onto the local airfield carpark (wet grass) and got my mates to pull the handbrake at random which taught me a hell of a lot about car control.
I think the main issue is convincing young people that they are NOT invincible and WILL get hurt or hurt others by driving like a twonk. "It won't happen to me" is the worst thing they can think of. However, everybody does it. I know I did. Then I nearly fell off the road at high speed. It can happen and most likely will.
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The Bellend makes a good point about teaching people in older cars. It's not very often younger drivers get to buy a car similar to that they had learnt in. No ABS, no power steering etc.
Also these young'uns relying on using the rev counter for changing gears??!? Whatever next?
They should be made to take tests in mk1 fiestas, no pas, no abs, no rev counter.... perfect that and we may have some safer young drivers around!
Hi :tongue:
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not being harsh but some posts are hypocritical, if you lot had these restrictions you wouldn't be happy, i didn't get a car until a year after i passed, didn't have a reason to go on the motorway for a month until i went to visit my grandma in leicester, then got used to the motorway more and some times heading up the m1 to melton mowbray to see a friend, then eventually went on the m6 all the way from leicestershire to blackpool and also recently done to manchester and back, i drive every day without a doubt for either college or work, my grandad always told me "drive like everyone around you is an idiot", holding teenagers back from driving at certain points won't be helping with there experience at all, it will most likely make them more nervous for when the time comes and might make mistakes, i do think they should make the driving test a tad harder to pass as i felt it was easy enough, just like a driving lesson.
rant over :undecided:
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:smiley:
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Learner drivers are not allowed on motorways in Ireland. They still use them and nobody cares because it was a stupid rule in the first place.
There were talks of not allowing young drivers on the road after 11pm but last I heard it was thrown out because it was a really stupid idea. People who want to be tearing around back roads at 4am will continue to do so and the majority of drivers who follow the rules will be the ones hit.
Likewise with a recent suggestion of fitting limiters to the cars of young drivers limiting them to 80 or 100kmph. The guys who want to go faster will remove the limiter and go faster. It also won't change the fact that 60kmph is way too fast on some roads. Most young driver deaths on Irish roads are because of guys tearing down a country lane at 100kmph with 4 mates in the car when that road is only safe if taken at 60kmph or less.
These are ideas that sound great in theory but in practice won't change really change anything.
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You can drive on a provisional but you must be accompanied by a driver with a full license. In theory it makes sense. In practice only a handful of people follow the rule. I follow the speed limits and rules quite strictly and even I flaunted that one. I lived an hour and a half away from work and my mum had her own job to get to so I just drove there myself. Nobody cared, I learned plenty about taking care of myself on the roads, nothing exploded :grin:
Recently the police are cracking down on people with provisionals but it's only happened to a handful of people. Similar to my case, if you are driving sensibly then nobody minds. Most of the people who have been hit with the provisional rule were stopped for other things like speeding or dangerous/erratic driving.
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Aye, the economy is in tatters but certain tech industries are alright. I studied instrumentation and control systems, currently working in a refinery for a few months. Most lads in my college class are in work at the moment. That said it's all contract stuff so it comes and goes.
Weather's been picking up the last few years though :grin:
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as someone already mentioned it would make more sense to make the pass plus a standard part of the driving test as most will just want to get behind the wheel and go and drive instead of havign to pay another ££££ and so many hours of more lessons to get the pass plus,
i remember the first time on the motorway after passing my test was a pure accident took teh wrong exit and then realised i was driving down the slip road to join the motor way and bricked it but as one of my mates said just keep up with the other cars but wasnt a pleasant experience as i had never been in that situation until that point and similar to night driving the first time i had to drive at night i didnt even know how to turn the bloody lights on had to ring my mum to ask how to do it as all my lessons were in the day and at that time and again i was in a new skoda fabia and my first car was a 1.0 nova , manual choke the lot
but again the amount of dangerous old drivers is unreal! some just not paying attention, driving way too slow which in itself can be more dangerous than driving too fast
what would happen if they made a retest after 20 yrs or so a standard practise? most would do fine but im sure alot would fail on silly things we just dismiss as 'we know how to drive'
I think teaching people to drive in old cars would be better as you can really appreciate the differnce unless your lucky enough to have a car bought for you that is nice and new
I thought most insurance companies wouldnt isure a younger driver ie 21 on a more powerfull car unless you had 2 NCD etc
thats not to mention the amount of uninsured drivers, mods not being declared etc etc as if they do they cant afford the prem so they just dont tell the insurance company, when i worked in motor claims the amount of calls from engineers who had inspected a car and had a long list of mods that werent declared was mental, you then tell the parent who is the 'main driver' you need to pay an extra £600 to cover the mods and then your not covered as you invalidated your insurance as a fronted policy
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No matter how many lessons they've had, chavvy twits are still gonna drive like chavvy twits or they're gonna panic non stop.
As has been said, I think power restrictions could be a good idea. Smaller engine cars may be able to top a tonne, but if there was a small stretch of road they probably wouldn't even be able to reach the speed limit before they had to brake again.
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Teaching in older cars can be educational but I've known plenty who have gone from older cars to more modern cars (mk4 and onwards) and suddenly think they are invincible because of 'all the new safety features'. Then they drive like careless idiots.
Rather than old car vs new car a general appreciation and awareness of your own car and other cars on the road would be a good idea.
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as someone already mentioned it would make more sense to make the pass plus a standard part of the driving test as most will just want to get behind the wheel and go and drive instead of havign to pay another ££££ and so many hours of more lessons to get the pass plus,
i remember the first time on the motorway after passing my test was a pure accident took teh wrong exit and then realised i was driving down the slip road to join the motor way and bricked it but as one of my mates said just keep up with the other cars but wasnt a pleasant experience as i had never been in that situation until that point and similar to night driving the first time i had to drive at night i didnt even know how to turn the bloody lights on had to ring my mum to ask how to do it as all my lessons were in the day and at that time and again i was in a new skoda fabia and my first car was a 1.0 nova , manual choke the lot
This.
I mean come on, learner drivers should be made to drive at night, in rain, and on motorways (providing you live near enough!)
Its been mentioned a few times "my ex gf passed her test and had no spatial awareness"... Been there done that, her driving was awful :sick: And yet she passed 1st time! Make the test more than just a "ticking boxes" exercise, involve a "common sense" approach.
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Whilst I'd welcome making driving on motorways part of the training how would you enforce it in areas which are miles away from motorways??
The nearest stretch of motorway when I lived back home was 50 miles away..........
BHP won't work. The Nissan Micra I used had 75bhp and was good for triple figures :lipsrsealed:
The training needs and should include ALL aspects of driving from night to poor conditions. Training on different types of roads is the hardest part as some people don't live near these types of roads i.e I didn't as per the above
Agreed :smiley:
Still think you shouldn't be able to drive any car after passing your test though.
Everyone should learn in a real Mini no power steering - Choke and crap brakes :laugh: :grin:
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Whilst I'd welcome making driving on motorways part of the training how would you enforce it in areas which are miles away from motorways??
The nearest stretch of motorway when I lived back home was 50 miles away..........
BHP won't work. The Nissan Micra I used had 75bhp and was good for triple figures :lipsrsealed:
The training needs and should include ALL aspects of driving from night to poor conditions. Training on different types of roads is the hardest part as some people don't live near these types of roads i.e I didn't as per the above
Agreed :smiley:
Still think you shouldn't be able to drive any car after passing your test though.
Everyone should learn in a real Mini no power steering - Choke and crap brakes :laugh: :grin:
Drum all round FTW! No straight-line braking here!
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Whilst I'd welcome making driving on motorways part of the training how would you enforce it in areas which are miles away from motorways??
The nearest stretch of motorway when I lived back home was 50 miles away..........
BHP won't work. The Nissan Micra I used had 75bhp and was good for triple figures :lipsrsealed:
The training needs and should include ALL aspects of driving from night to poor conditions. Training on different types of roads is the hardest part as some people don't live near these types of roads i.e I didn't as per the above
Agreed :smiley:
Still think you shouldn't be able to drive any car after passing your test though.
Everyone should learn in a real Mini no power steering - Choke and crap brakes :laugh: :grin:
Drum all round FTW! No straight-line braking here!
Mark 1 Land Rover Defender, that skills you up on acceleration, planning ahead, breaking and carrying speed. Could take a few Student bumps too!