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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: torontovka on 02 May 2011, 00:53

Title: MK2 turbo
Post by: torontovka on 02 May 2011, 00:53
Is there any topic provide details on how to do a turbo project from A to Z with best place to get the needed parts


regards


Mohamed
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Diamond Hell on 02 May 2011, 08:51
Any particular sort of turbo? 8V? 16V? 20V? VR6?
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Sam on 02 May 2011, 11:40
I hope when acheived BMW will faster be please.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: torontovka on 02 May 2011, 18:12
the 16v
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: lemski on 02 May 2011, 18:48
Caister bmx will tell you. Hes got one. Do u know someone who can tune k-star? Or r u thinking megasquirt.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: danny_p on 02 May 2011, 19:30
waste of time to fit k star to a new build
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Wayne on 02 May 2011, 19:34
Just fit a 1.8 20v turbo lump :smiley:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Neo Badness on 02 May 2011, 20:09
Just fit a 1.8 20v turbo lump :smiley:

And be like everyone else?

Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Diamond Hell on 02 May 2011, 20:17
Only bloke I know who's done a lot of documentation about it has a build thread here (http://clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=75415).  I think there's a thread about an ABF turbo on this forum, but it's in a Golf3.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Wayne on 02 May 2011, 23:14
Just fit a 1.8 20v turbo lump :smiley:

And be like everyone else?



Guess so but a lot less hassle at the end of the day.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: mk2bal on 03 May 2011, 09:45
The reason everyone else has done it is because its the best engine for the mk2!! (Forgetting r36's etc etc) if you can't beat em (which you won't) join em. Or be different and have a slower, less reliable, harder to source,manage and setup engine that will eventually die. Plus £££'s on fabricating as nothings off the shelf like it is for a 20vt
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Chris-White on 03 May 2011, 14:24
The reason everyone else has done it is because its the best engine for the mk2!! (Forgetting r36's etc etc) if you can't beat em (which you won't) join em. Or be different and have a slower, less reliable, harder to source,manage and setup engine that will eventually die. Plus £££'s on fabricating as nothings off the shelf like it is for a 20vt

if money was no object its not the best option in the mk2 though is it.

less reliable - not if its built properly
harder to source? - set of s2 pistons and rods on ebay at the moment, KKK k24's are two a penny on german ebay.
manage - well yes, but a custom management setup is required for big power on a 20v anyway
eventually die - why? as said, not if properly built

slower - the 16v head design is better than the 20vs.

this is worth a read:
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-174912.html

not to mention 20v power delivery isnt the most exciting.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Neo Badness on 03 May 2011, 14:27
The reason everyone else has done it is because its the best engine for the mk2!! (Forgetting r36's etc etc) if you can't beat em (which you won't) join em. Or be different and have a slower, less reliable, harder to source,manage and setup engine that will eventually die. Plus £££'s on fabricating as nothings off the shelf like it is for a 20vt

if money was no object its not the best option in the mk2 though is it.

less reliable - not if its built properly
harder to source? - set of s2 pistons and rods on ebay at the moment, KKK k24's are two a penny on german ebay.
manage - well yes, but a custom management setup is required for big power on a 20v anyway
eventually die - why? as said, not if properly built

slower - the 16v head design is better than the 20vs.

this is worth a read:
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-174912.html

not to mention 20v power delivery isnt the most exciting.

Thank you for covering almost everything I was going to say.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: mk2bal on 03 May 2011, 17:19
Never said it was the best engine (hence mentioning r36's etc). But if you wanna rebuild an old 16v made out of a shopping list of 2nd hand parts, and then manage it, sure, but I'd rather grab a bam lump, forge it, qpeng it, and drive it.its like saying well I've got an old 'a' series engine, if I do everything to it it'll be better than a 20v?!sure if you want to. 16vt was cool 15years ago, just look at caistor bmxs fooked engine!! 20 valve isn't THE best engine available, but for £'s, and ease of getting a good one, plus spares, plus upgrades it kicks the fook out of a 16vt. Didn't realise the heads were worse tho?! I guess people have tested and proved that yeah..?
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: fecked_tt on 03 May 2011, 17:32
Have to say standard 20vts are a bit sh!t
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 May 2011, 17:56
Didn't realise the heads were worse tho?! I guess people have tested and proved that yeah..?

How many valves do the Golf5 and 6 GTI have? QED

16VT is a rich man's 20VT.  The 16V VAG motor is a finer motor than the 20V unit.  It's got to be done properly, but it'd be the one I'd go for if I were a rich man (which I'm not  :grin:)
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Chris-White on 03 May 2011, 18:35
Never said it was the best engine (hence mentioning r36's etc). But if you wanna rebuild an old 16v made out of a shopping list of 2nd hand parts, and then manage it, sure, but I'd rather grab a bam lump, forge it, qpeng it, and drive it.its like saying well I've got an old 'a' series engine, if I do everything to it it'll be better than a 20v?!sure if you want to. 16vt was cool 15years ago, just look at caistor bmxs fooked engine!! 20 valve isn't THE best engine available, but for £'s, and ease of getting a good one, plus spares, plus upgrades it kicks the fook out of a 16vt. Didn't realise the heads were worse tho?! I guess people have tested and proved that yeah..?

this post is so full of contradiction!

2nd hand parts -like a 2nd hand bam engine you mean?
forge it - like you would be doing with the S2 pistons in my hypothetical 16vt that are forged as standard
'manage' the 16vt - then you say qpeng, which is, erm, management  :grin: and expensive management at that
caistor bmx's is the opposite to what i was saying, i said a PROPERLY BUILT and managed engine.

then you say more upgrades to the engine, but really its all the same price for nything good (aka forged pistons / bigger turbos / better downpipes / meth injection etc etc) and then the 20vdesign lacks the ability for higher lift cams or much bigger valves due to the valve design.

Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: mk2bal on 03 May 2011, 19:42
Ok ill race you to 275 bhp. Drop a bam in. Remap on Standard management, done. I know what your saying, but come on you got to see my point too. Money/time/effort are all big factors, and for that reason a 20vts got to be more feasible.look out for a rear endered 20vt, or take someones off them that they can no longer afford is the way ill do mine. I know pricing it all up new/mainly new isn't cheap at all. My mate stripped a 20vt, sold all the goodies, then another mate had shell and engine conversion for 1500quid!! Included lsd rebuilt box, g60brakes, qpeng setup etc etc. My abf conversion with all the probs I had cost me nigh on a grand all in! Twas gutted so I was
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 May 2011, 20:05
You've spent a grand on an ABF conversion? You're doing it wrong.

Remind me what management you're running it on?.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: lemski on 03 May 2011, 20:11
Wouldnt it have been cheaper to buy an abf mk3 and bang that in a mk2?
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 03 May 2011, 20:14
16v head design is better than the 20v's? jeez it must be bad  :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: mwep201081 on 03 May 2011, 20:24
Money/time/effort are all big factors

The OP never said this so you are assuming. Maybe the OP has an enthusiasm for engine building, as opposed to operating an engine crane......
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: danny_p on 03 May 2011, 20:27
Never said it was the best engine (hence mentioning r36's etc). But if you wanna rebuild an old 16v made out of a shopping list of 2nd hand parts, and then manage it, sure, but I'd rather grab a bam lump, forge it, qpeng it, and drive it.its like saying well I've got an old 'a' series engine, if I do everything to it it'll be better than a 20v?!sure if you want to. 16vt was cool 15years ago, just look at caistor bmxs fooked engine!! 20 valve isn't THE best engine available, but for £'s, and ease of getting a good one, plus spares, plus upgrades it kicks the fook out of a 16vt. Didn't realise the heads were worse tho?! I guess people have tested and proved that yeah..?

so i get an ABF lump, forge it.  add a rollerbearing garret,  and manage it with say omex.  proably cost less and i'll be making more than 275 bhp
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: emery1990 on 03 May 2011, 20:46
Caisters blew because of old school management and not having a afr gauge, you'd have to run it off a modern ecu if doing it. I think the 20vt power delivery is sh!t! runs out of puff at 5500rpm  :laugh:

How cheap can you actually do it for, turbo a 16v. £1000 ? minus management.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Chris-White on 03 May 2011, 21:17
How cheap can you actually do it for, turbo a 16v. £1000 ? minus management.

the setup that always bobs around my head is (as i sorta said earlier) - audi s2 exhaust manifold cut 'n welded 5th runner, audi s2 turbo, hacked up standard inlet manifold cut 'n shut to bring the TB across, s2 pistons & rods, G60 management with a chip from ebay.de for this exact setup, generic BOV

the only issues being that the K24 is water and oil cooled, and possibly boost control (run it on WG pressure with a bleed valve and be very careful when first setting up?)

the other option i keep thinking of is early volvo turbo management as they ran a version of CIS

i reckon this could be done for a grand with shrewd buying and knowing what your letting yourself in for.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: torontovka on 03 May 2011, 21:35
thank you guys

will not go for that project,,, since My E34 540i6 V8 has a 450 Hp on wheel, so better to keep this car for slow drive and wife


regards

Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Chris-White on 03 May 2011, 22:20
My E34 540i6 V8 has a 450 Hp on wheel,

pics?!!
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: danny_p on 03 May 2011, 22:26
a slightly tweeked NA 16v    is probaly a good engine choice   they arn't as fas as the turboed stuff but as uch if not more fun to drive
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: tomp on 03 May 2011, 23:36
I have got to disagree, the 16v turbo (8 injector - kstar) is an awesome car to drive and very reliable, I am rebuilding mine after over 10 years since I originally built the engine. I am only rebuilding the engine as a precaution since I am completely overhauling the entire car as the body was getting a bit shabby. It still runs fine but the timing chain is a bit noisy, so while I am at it its not that big a deal to change the seals in the head, decoke etc.

I have had lots of mk2's, the normally aspirated 16v is a great car, BUT with a turbo its awesome, the power delivery is unbelievable, I have hit the rev limiter in 5th gear, it just pulls and pulls and pulls. Musing a NOS kit for some extra fun at the moment, the car is a toy and I like gadgets!

The kstar does the job fine, I have absolutely no intention of changing it, alot of time was dedicated to mapping it properly, it had over a day on Stealth's rollers to get it setup right. I am not up to date on other management systems but I know that the kstar allows me to control fuel and ignition retard/advance at any point in the rev range, water injection keeps everything cool, it just works....

Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 May 2011, 23:50
I have got to disagree, the 16v turbo (8 injector - kstar) is an awesome car to drive and very reliable

Very probably, but do find an ABF on OEM management to try out.  :wink:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Neo Badness on 03 May 2011, 23:52
I have got to disagree, the 16v turbo (8 injector - kstar) is an awesome car to drive and very reliable

Very probably, but do find an ABF on OEM management to try out.  :wink:

Then turbo it :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: tomp on 03 May 2011, 23:55
hehe

Took the words out of my mouth!!!
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Diamond Hell on 03 May 2011, 23:59
But try it first, in something weighing under a tonne.

It's a very persuasive package.

But I would say that, I've been persuaded.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: tomp on 04 May 2011, 00:04
Tell you what, you drive mine and I'll drive yours, we'll see whose most impressed when I have caught up with you!  :grin:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: mk2bal on 04 May 2011, 20:46
I was a bit unlucky with my conversion. Plus I didnt do my homework fully. The 1.3 carb engine blew up, someone offered me a kr donor car for 300quid,the engine was knackered so got a 9a for 150. New uprated clutch another 130quid. the shells were gone and got changed, a few months later the crank and pulley keyway sheared and died, couldn't go without the car again for repair time, so bought an abf lump for 250and dumped that in.also had new starter motor @100 odd quid along the way?!add a few seals and sundries etc at time of fitting and the total bill isn't too great.still on kjet!. In hindsight I shouldve learnt more and mk3 abf'd it. The 020 box is fooked now so gotta payout for 02a conversion, including new clutch seals etc etc.did it the long way round so to speak,and boy have I payed. Still love it though, its 160bhp proven and makes me smile. was gonna p+p head cams etc, but just gonna 20vt it next year and claw back what I can in bits.
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Sam on 05 May 2011, 14:17
Turbo charged 16 valves are immense. The guy who had the car previously to me still states that it is the most fun car he has ever owned as its just silly. 20vt is a decent lump to lob in but surely its not hard to see that the same amount of work would go into either conversion. I know people have there preferences with na turb or super and i for one am a turbo head now. Now if we could all stop slagging off my engine :)
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: Neo Badness on 05 May 2011, 14:22
Turbo charged 16 valves are immense.

that is all :smiley:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: mk2bal on 05 May 2011, 19:19
That made me chuckle!Not slagging it off at all. might even look into doin something with the 9a sat in shed in that case,need to do my research and weigh up my options, because yeah, turbo is the way forward for sure.I love my na 16vd mk2,but after going in 275bhp in a turbo 1, it doesn't quite make me smile so much. Is megasquirt using abf digi bits the best way of control for a 16vt then (ie crank, throttle, knock and other sensors)
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: plastic man on 05 May 2011, 22:02
20vt's are gay as f**k, I just got my turbo for the ABF and it gona rock out with its cock out an I cant wait  :laugh:
Title: Re: MK2 turbo
Post by: danny_p on 05 May 2011, 22:59
i love 16v's and 16vt engines.

form the syncro i'm going to stay NA,  a well tuned 16v has enough grun and awsome resonse and perdictablityin a light car for me to expoler my tallent bucket in the corners and less likely to f**k stuff up.

16v turbos behave competly diffrent to 20v turbos , you feel the raw grunt,   they also make a LOT of power very easaly they are responsive and predfictable but the raw power encorages point and squirt driveing not squeeking round corners on the edge of grip