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General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: jake on 29 April 2011, 14:05
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Hi guys
I just wanted to confirm something.
From my understanding you can tow a trailer with a standard car license with a car on it as long as the WHOLE weight of everything is under 3.5 tonnes.
Now i drive an audi a4 2003 reg, and I want to tow a flat bed trailer and my golf. The golf is a rolling shell, no engine, interior, and stripped to the bone. Now that will be definitely under that weight,
Yet one of my friends about a month ago towed a trailer, he had nothing on it yet he police pulled him over and said you can't be towing that, as it's capable of towing 2.5 tonnes? They took the trailer off him and fined him as well.
Now i think that is BOLLOCKS, as i have read up on the DVLA website, and it says as long as it is under 3.5 tonnes you can tow it?
Can someone please clarify for me?
THanks
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depends when you passed your test,
old sweats like me DH and len can tow trailers up to a certain weight.
youngsters DONT have that entitlement and have to do a test to be able to tow trailers of a certain weight.
:smiley:
clearer details
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
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yeah that is correct, I understand that bit mate.
If you passed your test before 1997 then you can tow anything up to like 7.5 tonnes.
Yet if you have not done a C license then you can only tow up to 3.5 tonnes.
Yet why did he get pulled?
Jake
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what size trailer was he pulling ? on what .
I have on MANY occasion been ABOVE the maximum towing weight for the car which i was using to tow :lipsrsealed:
and thats what most people get caught out on.
if you passed your test before 1997, and subject to your golf n trailer combined are below the maximum braked weight for ya audi then you should be all legal.
However, even with the engine out you might be close if its a good solid trailer.
I can JUST drag a Mk2 on a litewieght trailer on the back of my wagon :shocked:
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Back in the early 70's I once drove a LWB Landrover with a trailer carrying a Davis trencher.
That weighed about 2 tons. :wink:
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i passed my test after 97 mate?
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then i dont think you can,
cos the trailer and golf will be over 750kg :huh:
or
tow car, trailer and golf will be over 3.5t
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Yeah but there is no way the car golf and trailer will be over 3.5 tonnes?
It is just a shell? Say for example the audi ways worse case 1,400kg, and the trailer on it's own weighs 700kg, the golf max weighs like 600kg, so that is 2700kg, which still leaves me
with nearly 800kg to play with? With me and fuel maybe another 130kg.
So that would only equate to just short of 3k?
So if it is under 3,500 is not ok to do it?
Jake
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just read this on parkers
* Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes and no more than eight passenger seats (ie: officially dubbed Category B vehicles and are typical cars) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total Maximum Authorised Mass or MAM).
* Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. more than 750kg, provided that the combined Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.
* Vehicles over 3500kg MAM are classified as large goods vehicles.
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I have done my B+E test for towing car and the like.
Simple answer is if you passed test after 1997 then you cant tow the golf because you only have a B license.
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You will have to do the test.
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As has been said, if you took your test after 97, you MUST have done your B+E test to entitle you to drive with a trailer of any size.
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you MUST have done your B+E test to entitle you to drive with a trailer of any size.
Don't think so - I think you are fine up to 750kg, but not over 750kg. The 3500kg MAM refers to being able to tow up to 750kg behind a vehicle weighing up to 2750kg.
Isn't the police nicking your mate enough evidence to point towards you not being licensed to tow over 750kg?
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Just to add, you cant even tow a car trailer empty.
This is because the MAM weight or Gross weight will be over 750kg.
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When we tow our clio, we use a frontera, a 700kg trailer and then the weight of the car meaning we are just over 3ton, we have quoted the following to any one who has questioned us (quote from direct.gov) and we have never had any problems:
Car licences obtained on or after 1 January 1997
If you passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 you're limited to vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass towing a trailer up to 750kgs, or a vehicle and trailer combination up to 3.5 tonnes MAM providing the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. You will need to pass an additional driving test in B+E if you wish to tow a caravan or trailer combination which exceeds these weight limits.
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When we tow our clio, we use a frontera, a 700kg trailer and then the weight of the car meaning we are just over 3ton, we have quoted the following to any one who has questioned us (quote from direct.gov) and we have never had any problems:
£10 says the coppers you're talking to don't know what they're talking about. I think before very long you'll find one who does, who'll lower your trousers and spank you, because I don't believe you are legal, or licensed.
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But it clearly states on the quote we are legal to do so, I can'tunderstand why we wouldnt be legal or licensed?
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towing laws are imo a LOAD OF BOLLOX
none of the piggys know whitch version of the rule book there meant to be reading from fewer probaly understand it
problem is last time i had a proper read of the laws your actualy pritty f**ked when it comes to towing as they don't go by the weight on your trailer unless its more than the plated weight of the trailer. they presume you are carrying the maximum weight your trailer is plated for and should your trailer be plated for a higher weight than your tow car can tow you should have the weight your trailer is plated for adjusted.
that pritty much what vosa said before i drove off
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But it clearly states on the quote we are legal to do so, I can'tunderstand why we wouldnt be legal or licensed?
I suggest you weigh your complete outfit as you drive it, as I think if you're going by manufacturer's weights you'll be over-weight (+3500kg).
Here's a useful flowchart I just found:
(http://www.towing-solutions.co.uk/images/be_flowchart.jpg)
I see Frontera weight: 1820kg trailer: 700kg Clio: 980kg
That comes to 3500kg.
Now add fluids, wheels, tools and goons and you're over-weight.
I hope no copper has access to the interweb or basic mathematics skills when they pull you over, but hey it's your license, not mine.
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Just checked, as I'd used a 16V Clio.
If it's a Williams then it comes in at 1010kg.
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it is a ph1 172, with nothing in it at all, plastic windows, basic wiring loom, door and boot skins cut out, alloy bonnet, one seat, no dash just the wheel, our clio is much lighter than 980kg, i would guess it to be about 750kg, and frontera is 1727kg (2.2 tdi) add all these together = 3177kg.
The weights are all based on unladed units also, so tools, and wheels etc are not going to be included, even if they where, they will not total over 300kg considering they are only 15" and we only take one 20l tin each time!
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it is a ph1 172, with nothing in it at all, plastic windows, basic wiring loom, door and boot skins cut out, alloy bonnet, one seat, no dash just the wheel, our clio is much lighter than 980kg, i would guess it to be about 750kg, and frontera is 1727kg (2.2 tdi) add all these together = 3177kg.
The weights are all based on unladed units also, so tools, and wheels etc are not going to be included, even if they where, they will not total over 300kg considering they are only 15" and we only take one 20l tin each time!
Get on weigh bridge, my fully stripped out MKII with poly carb windows etc is still over 800KG. I can't see the Clio being lighter.
Nick
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Your golf is a heavier car to start with though isnt it?
We have gone to a further stage as a friends clio and his is 800kg on a weigh bridge - even if it was say 850kg, we would still only total 3277kg which is still under the required.
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Your golf is a heavier car to start with though isnt it?
We have gone to a further stage as a friends clio and his is 800kg on a weigh bridge - even if it was say 850kg, we would still only total 3277kg which is still under the required.
I guess the only way to be sure is to load it up as you wuold for a trackday and park the whole lot on a weigh bridge, after all that's what could happen to you with VOSA etc. Better to be sure than sorry.
Nick
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We are planning on trying to get that done to be 100% staisfyed! :wink:
Hi guys
I just wanted to confirm something.
From my understanding you can tow a trailer with a standard car license with a car on it as long as the WHOLE weight of everything is under 3.5 tonnes.
Now i drive an audi a4 2003 reg, and I want to tow a flat bed trailer and my golf. The golf is a rolling shell, no engine, interior, and stripped to the bone. Now that will be definitely under that weight,
Yet one of my friends about a month ago towed a trailer, he had nothing on it yet he police pulled him over and said you can't be towing that, as it's capable of towing 2.5 tonnes? They took the trailer off him and fined him as well.
Now i think that is nuts, as i have read up on the DVLA website, and it says as long as it is under 3.5 tonnes you can tow it?
Can someone please clarify for me?
THanks
And Jake.. i hope our converstaions have answered you original question lol! :cool:
Ash
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i`m not 100% sure on the law regarding towing with a license obtained after 97. but just to let you know, vosa are now self funding and if they pull you over they can give you a fixed penalty notice for every fault they find. so if they find 6 faults you get 6 fines which can soon add up :shocked:.
so please make sure you are 100% legal before setting out.
i would even phone/email vosa to see what there take on it is as they will know the law
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i`m not 100% sure on the law regarding towing with a license obtained after 97. but just to let you know, vosa are now self funding and if they pull you over they can give you a fixed penalty notice for every fault they find. so if they find 6 faults you get 6 fines which can soon add up :shocked:.
so please make sure you are 100% legal before setting out.
i would even phone/email vosa to see what there take on it is as they will know the law
Thanks very much for that info matey, we will give them a call and see where we stand! :wink:
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I guess the only way to be sure is to load it up as you wuold for a trackday and park the whole lot on a weigh bridge, after all that's what could happen to you with VOSA etc. Better to be sure than sorry.
This, because this is what plod will do if he thinks you're a) fair game b) a smart ar$e.
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An often missed but very important point is the PLATED weight of the trailer.
If you have a twin Axle trailer, PLATED to carry 2.5Te, even if its empty, you`d still be over the 3.5Te limit if towing with a 1500kg tow car. The plated weight is added to the towcar weight, regardless of whats on the trailer.
For those who don`t have a trailer license and passed their test after 97, this is something regularly misunderstood but extremely relevant.
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I think our trailer has got a plated weight of 1450kg... may be mistaken but i am pretty sure it is.
So does that mean that you would add the 1450 to the 1720 of our towing car to make 3170, and that is the overall figure used?? :undecided:
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I think our trailer has got a plated weight of 1450kg... may be mistaken but i am pretty sure it is.
So does that mean that you would add the 1450 to the 1720 of our towing car to make 3170, and that is the overall figure used?? :undecided:
If it is the twin axle one I saw you using at oulton park then the plated gross weight will be more than 1450.
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I think our trailer has got a plated weight of 1450kg... may be mistaken but i am pretty sure it is.
So does that mean that you would add the 1450 to the 1720 of our towing car to make 3170, and that is the overall figure used?? :undecided:
If it is the twin axle one I saw you using at oulton park then the plated gross weight will be more than 1450.
Yeah that is the one..
What is the plated gross weight of the trailer? i dont know if it helps but the unladen weight of the trailer is 700kg???
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I think our trailer has got a plated weight of 1450kg... may be mistaken but i am pretty sure it is.
So does that mean that you would add the 1450 to the 1720 of our towing car to make 3170, and that is the overall figure used?? :undecided:
If it is the twin axle one I saw you using at oulton park then the plated gross weight will be more than 1450.
Yeah that is the one..
What is the plated gross weight of the trailer? i dont know if it helps but the unladen weight of the trailer is 700kg???
Gross weight is the maximum weight the trailer car be i.e trailer + maximum load, and its the same no matter what is on the trailer. Gross weight is what the police or vosa will use is you get stopped
My three axle trailer is gross weight 3500kg and is stamped on the i.d plate. So basically if you passed test after 1997 and have not done B+E then you can't tow your trailer, empty or loaded.
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I think our trailer has got a plated weight of 1450kg... may be mistaken but i am pretty sure it is.
So does that mean that you would add the 1450 to the 1720 of our towing car to make 3170, and that is the overall figure used?? :undecided:
If it is the twin axle one I saw you using at oulton park then the plated gross weight will be more than 1450.
Yeah that is the one..
What is the plated gross weight of the trailer? i dont know if it helps but the unladen weight of the trailer is 700kg???
Gross weight is the maximum weight the trailer car be i.e trailer + maximum load, and its the same no matter what is on the trailer. Gross weight is what the police or vosa will use is you get stopped
My three axle trailer is gross weight 3500kg and is stamped on the i.d plate. So basically if you passed test after 1997 and have not done B+E then you can't tow your trailer, empty or loaded.
Theres a man who knows :smiley:
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There are times when being old has its advantages! :smug: