GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: tomp on 24 April 2011, 19:17
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Anyone tried it?
Just toying with the idea for my mk2 Golf 16v Turbo that is currently undergoing a complete restoration.
The bodywork is currently getting done, then I'm going to rebuild the engine and turbo and reinstate the water injection, got thinking about NOS and when I looked the kits aren't that expensive!
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Course you can do it but whether it will be worth it or not is another matter... for a decent kit your still looking at £700+ that for me is expensive as you would never really use it..
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Daft idea :undecided:
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Is it a daft idea though?
A wizard of Nos kit for a Turbo injection car is £540 and claims it can deliver up to 150bhp at the press of a button, that's got to be fun hasn't it?
http://www.noswizard.com/product_desc.php?id=221
There's a guy here who has fitted it to his mkV Golf
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125648
My Golf is a toy, I have owned it for 16 years and won't ever part with it, its not a daily driver. Its currently running eight fuel injectors tied to a K-Star controller, Aquamist water injection, etc. So why not Nitros as well?
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Yes it is a great idea until it goes bang
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A wizard of Nos kit for a Turbo injection car is £540 and claims it can deliver up to 150bhp at the press of a button, that's got to be fun hasn't it?
ctors tied to a K-Star controller, Aquamist water injection, etc. So why not Nitros as well?
For the sake of the engine not going bang, you can get 150 BHP from chucking in and ABF lump, and for far less than £540.
You could by a whole MK3 16v for £500 and make money back on breaking it.
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Well the car is already over 200bhp (torque about the same).
The engine was fully rebuilt when the conversion was done, the rings were uprated and the compression ratio was lowered to 8.5:1 by offset bushing the conrods. Its running a Garrett T25 Turbo with switchable boost control and ERL Aquamist water injection. Fueling is taken care of by an additional 4 injectors which are controlled by a k-star management system.
Why would I want to put a mk3 engine in?
With the Nos idea, I was thinking of just running a 25 or maybe 50 Bhp jet, just for fun!!!
My biggest worry would be the gearbox, my car eats them! I have been through 4 standard mk2 16v boxes and one rebuilt box with bolted diff. Having said that, I went to a mk3 box and that's lasted longer than the rest put together so far!
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Just re read your post, the 150 bhp is potentially on top of the existing figure....
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A wizard of Nos kit for a Turbo injection car is £540 and claims it can deliver up to 150bhp at the press of a button, that's got to be fun hasn't it?
ctors tied to a K-Star controller, Aquamist water injection, etc. So why not Nitros as well?
For the sake of the engine not going bang, you can get 150 BHP from chucking in and ABF lump, and for far less than £540.
You could by a whole MK3 16v for £500 and make money back on breaking it.
We need a yawn smiley around here....
Go for it pal. 150 BHP EXTRA at the flick of a switch sounds most entertaining.......
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Not expecting that much out of it but it definitely works...
There's a guy here who has a NOS kit fitted to his Edition 30, power has increased massively with rolling road print outs to prove...
http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5372
Back to my original question, does anyone have any experience with it?
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Just re read your post, the 150 bhp is potentially on top of the existing figure....
+1 there. My bad. Thought your existing engine was going to be boosted to 150 BHP.
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Nah its already way past the 150 mark, can't remember the exact figure but it was over 200 when it was originally mapped on Stealth's rollers, that was a few years back now though. Its due a rebuild so while I'm at it.....
Nitros looks interesting, wasn't expecting to be ridiculed for considering it!!!
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You get ridiculed for everything on here unless your boring and predictable and follow the herd, fit an ABF, junk K-jet, never fit coilovers etc etc etc...
I would be a bit carefull running nitrous with your particular ECU setup as you need to be able to tweek the ignition timing to suit when it hits for best reliability but if you can do that it should be fine. Other than that, dont be stupid with your expectations and theres no reason not to if your gearbox is up to it and your only after it for kicks and giggles, better than spending a fortune on expensive mods to get the extra power in my view and with minimal consequences in real terms for the gains you get (people still fear nitrous through ignorance).
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Thanks for that....
K-Star although probably a bit dated now, it does let you control the ignition retard and advance at any point in the rev range as well as the fuel going through the extra four injectors.
Have already spent the fortune on expensive mods, just toying with the idea of this now, having read up on it a bit and it certainly looks fun and I am convinced that it works.
Would like convincing that it can be reliable too though!
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AS long as the engine and drivetrain are in good shape, you set realistic goals (a 150 shot is far too much and they may not even sell it you if they think your a muppet) and you get it fitted properly following their advice on ignition timing it should be fine. The major extra stress here is the cylinder pressures which could conceivably be an issue of your running stock pistons but they see far more load from engine revs rather than cylinder pressures so reduce your rev limit a tad if your really worried (make sure you do have a rev limiter!), other than that its pretty damn safe if done properly. You appear to be taking the sensible option of looking at doing a rebuild before hand so there should be no issues. The problem comes when your names barry and you frequent halfords.
Just a thought, have you considered buying a book on the subject?
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agree with the above the only thing i would have concern with is age of the engine etc. if your saying you have/having a total rebuild then you have far better chance of the engine not giving up.
be interested to see this as i dont know of another mk2 running nos.
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Just considering the idea of fitting it at the moment, if I decide to do it then I will research it as much as possible. Wouldn't even consider a 150 shot, the car is a toy but I do want it to be reliable, the conversion has been brilliant and never let me down (other than gearboxes!). The car is very driveable, that's what I wanted, I am not running huge amounts of boost, I just wanted to have a quick mk2 and its definitely the quickest I have ever been in.
There is nothing wrong with the engine, the rebuild is purely because the car is getting fully restored so its more a precaution than anything else, it will be interesting to see how the pistons look when the head is off after quite a few years of forced induction. Forged pistons are always an option....
When I built the engine I knew of only one other 8 injector 16v Turbo, it took ages to find an original Turbo Technics kit which was then modified (they only ran one extra injector and where it was located meant that 1 and 2 didn't get as much fuel as 3 and 4 so it wasn't that great - I have the 4 extra injectors machined into the inlet).
I was definitely the first person to run water injection on a mk2, Vince at Stealth was amazed at how cool it ran on the rollers while it was being mapped, the inlet manifold was ice cold after lots of hard runs! Pretty sure that Stealth are now Aquamist agents, Richard Lamb at ERL Aquamist was really interested as to how we were getting on with the kit at the time.
Cheers
Barry
hehe its Tom
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Its probably a while off to be honest!!!!
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/tommympuk/golf.jpg)
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And before (several years!)
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/tommympuk/38ad6625.jpg)
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Yes it is a great idea until it goes bang
it will only go bang if you dont match the fuelling to the nitrous, or if you go too crazy with the amount of nitrous.
sensible application of nos isnt dangerous at all really, just takes a bit of brainwork, like any proper tuning.
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So why aren't people doing it more often then? Its not that expensive, I know what I spent on the engine years ago and NOS is a fraction of the cost.
Admittedly, the turbo is obviously there all the time and its a fantastic car to drive, but for a power hit, NOS looks like great value for money, am I missing something?
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i think most people dont fit it as a lot of people run standard management on their mk2's not standalone... a decent standalone management and mapping is upwards of a grand getting it done professionally.. A couple of years down the line i may consider it for the abf as i cant be arsed to fit a turbo and as you say its instant power when you need it... There was a guy on here with a mk4 called Jake and his kit which was wizards of NOS stuff and was properly set up with all the switches and valves etc and that cost him a grand iirc..
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Why not use that money to get better runnning gear?
LSD
VR gear box or better
AWD set up
Loads more stuff to make the car go safer and faster without serious insurane hastles :wink:
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Fair point tech1889, fortunately I already have the management system, it may be outdated by todays standards, although to be honest I haven't looked or considered a different management system as I think it should be up to the job.
The running gear on the car works as it is so don't really feel the need to change it, the car is a toy, it was "interesting" but fun to drive in the wet and more than managable.
The AWD set up would be pointless for me, if I wanted AWD I would just jump in the Impreza parked next to it! Insurance wasn't that expensive on the Golf, its a 3rd car on a limited mileage policy, seem to remember it was only a couple of hundred ish fully comp. (No doubt that's changed!)
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How are you tuning your k-star? Is it done at stealth or do you have your own means of doing it?
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I have got the software somewhere, its on a floppy disk and runs in DOS!!!!!!
I am in North Wales so its a long way to Stealth.
I have a really old laptop that I used to use in the car when I was playing with the setup, probably will dig it out and see if it still works, you also need a serial cable and it has to be wired a certain way.... (One of my engineers made me up the cable, could probably find the wiring diagram if required, or just use a multi-meter and work out the pin connections from my lead)
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NOS is all good fun, i would have run it if it wasent for the insurance loading, i worked it out as 1% for each nitro powerd pony and i wanted 100 of them.
NOS can be very expensie to run, but if you pay bottel rent of £7 per month and buy it in 50 ltr industrial bottels it get rather a lot cheeper only need to get some lines made up so you can fill your own :smiley:
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Danny is there a limit to how much you can store legally ??
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the rules on how you store it will change depending on how much you have hanging around,
tho TBH it's not that frisky i have pallet packs of oxygen about thats 12x 50ltr (boc W cylinder) about the place and pure o2 makes nirtus look boreing. insurance company like to know when you have that sort of stuff hanging about so they can bum rape you accordingly.
i only have 2x W cyls os nos and there just chained up to the wall as you would with any other cyl of that size, no spectial fuss of bother and insurance company chouldn't be any more botherd about me haveing it there than the oxygen. acetaline certanly bothers them a lot more :sad:
can't go stashing it in your bedroom / domestic propety tho. belive it or not you can actualy invalidate your house insurance by haveing propane cyls inside ( yet butane is ok ) big nos bottels will certanly invalidate all insurance but you'd probaly be ok stashing them in the shed read insurance thoroghly first tho
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I'd go for it mate! Quite a cheap way to get an 20bhp +. Standalone your looking at £700 around that way. Not sure if turbos take longer to tune than N/A's? Could be cheaper if built yourself (ecu)
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I have got the software somewhere, its on a floppy disk and runs in DOS!!!!!!
I am in North Wales so its a long way to Stealth.
I have a really old laptop that I used to use in the car when I was playing with the setup, probably will dig it out and see if it still works, you also need a serial cable and it has to be wired a certain way.... (One of my engineers made me up the cable, could probably find the wiring diagram if required, or just use a multi-meter and work out the pin connections from my lead)
If all of the above could be done you would help no end! Im sure one of the lads at my uni could look at the coding and make her run on xp too. Is there any way I can get hold of a copy of the disk and wiring diagram for the cable?
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PM me your email address and I will email you what you need, you may have to bear with me as I am gonna have to find the disk and a floppy disk drive to read it!!!
Have a look here for wiring diagrams:
http://www.vwgolfmk1.org.uk/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=77094
Pretty sure that's what you need although I could check my lead as it lives in the glovebox (Which is somewhere in my garage) to confirm.....
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tomp, I work with a bloke that races his bike at santa pod with NOS, i asked him a while ago for another thread, i havent tried the links. He buys his NOS stuff from the states (cheaper i think)
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=160477.msg1479661#msg1479661
and this is his bike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8fjKlLKoZo
http://www.youtube.com/user/penguinracing#p/a/u/2/CPX-dAhfu-U
Hope it helps
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Cheers for that, links are good, followed one for a mk2 16v install.
That bike sounds mean!
Cheers