GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Leon27 on 20 April 2011, 20:13
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Due to a leaky standard shock I now need 4 uprated ones :wink: EuroCarParts are giving a good trade price for the B6 setup and now I'm left with a spring choice which is between the H&R's and Eibachs. I can't go lower than 30mm due to living in London and the B6's are not meant to be pushed further than that anyway so need some opinions please...
I'm looking for a progressive spring to ensure some comfort but wondering if anyone has a similar set up? I did make a post last year about it and the H&R was a good choice but I cant find a dealer that does a 30 drop for them. Appreciate any feedback with regards to comfort if someone has mated Eibachs to the B6's or any other springs.
Cheers
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I thought they were standard shocks? :huh:
I would go H&R spring's I think you can get some made to suit. That won't be cheap though.
You will find it hard to get 30mm springs of the shelf. 20mm maybe, but most springs start at 40mm. Your shocks will be safe at a 40mm drop :wink:
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To be honest I'm a bit confused about that, the B8's are designed shorter for shorter springs between -30-40mm. The B6's are longer and designed for springs up to -30mm... which is what a new standard shock could take really so in that sense you are right. But its got all that upsidedown stuff so it out performs a standard shock and is classed as uprated.
Got my heart set on the H&R's as you say so will try and contact them, they do a OE Sport Kit:
http://www.hrsprings.com/products/springs/
But I cant find a dealer for them! Eibach do a 30mm kit but Ess_Three, as well as others, mentioned that they are a little more harsh compared to the H&Rs. Just wondered how harsh on the Bilsteins...
Maybe ECP do them, I was suprised that they could get the Eibachs!
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Eibach's ftw. :smiley:
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To be honest I'm a bit confused about that, the B8's are designed shorter for shorter springs between -30-40mm. The B6's are longer and designed for springs up to -30mm... which is what a new standard shock could take really so in that sense you are right. But its got all that upsidedown stuff so it out performs a standard shock and is classed as uprated.
Got my heart set on the H&R's as you say so will try and contact them, they do a OE Sport Kit:
http://www.hrsprings.com/products/springs/
But I cant find a dealer for them! Eibach do a 30mm kit but Ess_Three, as well as others, mentioned that they are a little more harsh compared to the H&Rs. Just wondered how harsh on the Bilsteins...
Maybe ECP do them, I was suprised that they could get the Eibachs!
This is interesting to know.
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A friends Vr6 had a 60/40 H&R setup and I thought it had a pretty good ride for how low it was.
Worryingly I was also advised to try H&R by a mate who fitted Eibachs to a Mk3 and said the customer didn't like it.
Finally just recently I sat in a 16v with Koni/Eibach combo and it wasn't as good... to me. Reading through the forums there are a few posts about Eibachs being a little to hard. Whether it was the dampers that made the difference, I don't know.
This is purely subjective, I'm after comfort with a little bit more uprating as the Mk3 sucks for handling, quite sure most agree. I'm not into flying round corners and I'm agreeing with everyones suggestions about the H&R because it delivers what I want whereas the Eibach is probably good if the car is driven harder. Thats why I'm not overly keen on the Eibachs even though its got the drop I want, I don't drive hard at all, its my daily and needs to be comfy otherwise I'll get pissed off on the way to work. However if the Bilsteins B6's/B8's compliment the Eibachs then its worth a go.
I did make a post last year but very few Eibach owners replied, I only can base my decisions on other people's experiences and so far its the H&R's which I can't find!
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Sounds like we're after the same thing matey. http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=190258.0
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A friends Vr6 had a 60/40 H&R setup and I thought it had a pretty good ride for how low it was.
Worryingly I was also advised to try H&R by a mate who fitted Eibachs to a Mk3 and said the customer didn't like it.
Finally just recently I sat in a 16v with Koni/Eibach combo and it wasn't as good... to me. Reading through the forums there are a few posts about Eibachs being a little to hard. Whether it was the dampers that made the difference, I don't know.
This is purely subjective, I'm after comfort with a little bit more uprating as the Mk3 sucks for handling, quite sure most agree. I'm not into flying round corners and I'm agreeing with everyones suggestions about the H&R because it delivers what I want whereas the Eibach is probably good if the car is driven harder. Thats why I'm not overly keen on the Eibachs even though its got the drop I want, I don't drive hard at all, its my daily and needs to be comfy otherwise I'll get pissed off on the way to work. However if the Bilsteins B6's/B8's compliment the Eibachs then its worth a go.
I did make a post last year but very few Eibach owners replied, I only can base my decisions on other people's experiences and so far its the H&R's which I can't find!
Eibach is still the better choice as for trying to lower it and keep ride comfort not going to happen, H & R is as bad as Eibachs tbh.
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OK This is based on Audi TTs rather than Mk3s but I think it works like this:
Standard shocks are Bilstein B4s
B6s are dampers with a greater damping rate and therefore act to stiffen the suspension (quite significantly).
They are also quite expensive!
B8s are competition spec and designed to work with shorter travel, i.e. with shorter springs and a B8 based setup would be very very stiff and work well with, say, Eibach sportlines.
Polybushing works to increase the stiffness too - powerflex bushings are notoriously unyielding, but improve the degree of control the movement of the suspension arms perform.
So, ALL suspension modifications will, in theory, reduce ride comfort. They will certainly reduce suspension travel, so ride will be "stiffer", however a worn out suspension might be less comfortable than a modified one because of the uncontrolled, crashy ride such a suspension will exhibit.
So there.
(edited to sound less like yorkshire dialect. :laugh:)
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Weitec or FK's are the Tops! :wink:
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Been quoted £380 for the B8's and am accepting the fact that the ride isn't going to be as easy as standard but with my leaking shock it will be better! The car had very little use according to the MOT's so theyre all probably weak.. its a 96 with 61 on the clock now.
Went and got the Eibachs:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/IMAG0002.jpg)
Superfast! Bilsteins will take about 3 days from Euros which is still quick!
Its the 30mm drop and progressive so in theory it should do what I want. Debating whether or not I should go for the B6's or B8's, the B6's being longer should in theory be more comfortable. Thanks for the info Fozzy.
Thai wronghorse... Let you know what they are like soon!
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No problem, it's just the sum of what I've gleaned and so therefore subject to a bit of woolyness.
Good choice on the kit though. Bet you'll want to get stuck in with bushings next. Frankly with that fitted the "poor handling" that the Mk3 golf is _allegedly_ afflicted with will see you out-cornering most standard metal. :grin:
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Cheers Leon, I look forward to hearing some feedback on these. :smiley:
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I think B6's would do the job just fine. Btw how much were the Eibachs?
I have a similar problem: currently riding on ROKKOR coils, being ca 50mm down at the front and 40 at the back. They are stiff, but bouncy as hell. I'm looking towards buying 35/35 to 60/40 springs mated with B6 dampers or a full Weitec Ultra kit (60/40, 40/40).
Don't want the spongly handling and tracor-like ride-height of the original but cannot convince myself to buy a Weitec coilover setup as I'm selling the MK3 in about a year and a half...
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Bounce is down to the dampers.
Springs will always bounce if the dampers they are working with arent able to absorb the energy.
Also, if your suspension arms arent properly located, for example because there is play in a balljoint, this will make the car "rock and roll" in an uncontrolled, wobbly fashion.
Oooh and things like knackered top mounts too. All contributes to bouncy crashy horridness.
And, chillbill, careful with the amount of lowering you're planning; B6s arent designed for that amount of drop.
Would suggest coilovers?
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Yeah, I know good coilovers would be The Best option but, as said beforehand, I'm planning to sell the MK3 next year (to get an MKV GTI or such) so I couldn't justify throwing very large amounts of money at it at this point... Even more so as it's not a daily, more of a weekend toy.
Weitec coilovers are 600 EUR, a Weitec 60/40 kit is 415 EUR. It would make sense to get good second-hand coils but they're rather rather difficult to come by around here (Estonia).
And of course I could just suck it up (bumpiness during spirited driving) and get through another year as it is :rolleyes:
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I think B6's would do the job just fine. Btw how much were the Eibachs?
£104 - free delivery, not complaining :)
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That's a good price, I think the best i saw a few days ago was £109.
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Well im hoping you've got good reports on these as ive had to bite the bullet and order some myself as i want to get the suspension back up to scratch this bank holiday weekend. I ordered some of the Eibach Sportlines from C&R Enterprises this morning and should hopefully receive them tommorow. Fingers crossd...
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Angry. Don't like bank holidays especially when delivery times are quoted as 4-5 "working days" Should have arrived today but it didn't and as with you I wanted to fit them over the weekend. I got the Pro-Kit, did you definately get the Sportlines? They are red I think and don't know if they are progressive or not?
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Mine arrived this afternoon (so just over 24hrs from when i rang up) although i missed the delivery man so they're currently at the post office around the corner so il pick them up Saturday morning.
sh!t, im not sure what colour they are and if they're progressive or not....I just went by the recomendation at C&R, you've got me worried now as i hope these aren't going to be overly stiff. I was given the option of the Pro-kit but was told that they'd only drop my 16v by 15mm from stock whereas the Sportlines would give me 25mm which still isn't much tbh. :undecided:
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Just checked and they are progressively wound.
http://www.eibachloweringsprings.co.uk/
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:smiley:
Good stuff! Every review I've read about Eibach springs that people speak so highly of never mention these issues!
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Thought best to update :)
The 30mm drop hasn't caught me out on any speedbumps/parking over kerbs etc so thats exactly what I wanted.
Its not hard at all over rough surfaces and it feels so planted when going around roundabouts and corners its such a transformation.
I know giving a car all new suspension from a knackered setup will transform it anyway, but my old Mk3 didn't not feel like this so its a definate improvement :)
Few things if it helps anyone...
I didn't trim the rear bump stops as the Eibach springs and VW springs were the same height...
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/IMAG0016.jpg)
As they are accessible to get to and cut down I thought I'd leave them and after two weeks now the car hasn't felt like or even has been hitting them when inspecting it.
The front bumpstops are built inside the shock and were approx 30mm shorter...
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/IMAG0019.jpg)
So I left them well alone! Theres a nut at the bottom which you undo then get an allen key and turn it clockwise to get the damper part out.
The job was relatively easy using a proper spring compressor and adaptors, but without I can see this job taking about 3-4hours at a leisurely pace.
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/IMAG0017.jpg)
And the Bilstein kit came with front dust covers, top nuts, spacers for the top mounts and new rear bottom spring plates. Got new top mounts F&R and bearings- lowered the car and tightened it all up. They are truly OE fitting and everything went back on the way it should.
Before - Front needed more lowering
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/24072010090-002.jpg)
And after (with excessive shadows) but it looks more even now!
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/IMAG0020.jpg)
Thanks to all you guys who advised me to get the Eibachs, it was the right choice for me mated to the Bilstein's :)
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Looks spot on at that height :smiley:
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Cool, Ive had mine on for not that much longer now. I went for the 40mm Sportlines and am just as pleased with the springs as yourself. I reckon at some point il probably upgrade the shocks from my Weitec sport F ones though (which are very good il add) to some adjustable Koni's just so that i can dial them in exactly how I want them front and rear.