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Model specific boards => Golf mk1 => Topic started by: AndyF on 21 March 2005, 20:29
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Hi All,
Not been on here for a while and hope everyone is still as helpful as you all used to be.  :wink:
I have a 1989 golf cabriolet, which has been standing for the last 4years and have decided this is the year it will run again. Whilst it?s been standing someone kindly helped themselves to some of my relays :angry: . The fuel pump will now not energise and I have no idea what relays are missing.
So I am now desperately trying to get hold of pictures of peoples fuse boxes. So all golf cabriolet owners, regardless of year please can you help by either posting or emailing pictures to me at me@andyfooks.fsnet.co.uk.
Many Thanks in Advance,
Andy
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Andy, I can't get you any pics very quickly but I could count how many relays I've got in mine and probably tell you the numbers on them. As for the fuel relay switch, try GSF, ECP or VAG and you should be able to get one from these.
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Here you go!
http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~kaw5/electrical.htm
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Gibby, thanks very much for the offer. If you don?t mind, it would be very much appreciated. :smiley:
Black_cabbie, your also a star, thank you :smiley:. But I?m having trouble working out how the numbering works. Could you (or anyone) explain to me what the following represents:
19 20 21 22 23 24
13 14 15 16 17 18
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12
Am I right to say the list 1 ? 24 represents the number stamped on the relay, if so how can I tell its correct position?
Thanks again,
Andy
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Its just the position of the relays which is explained here.
1 = open (Digifant control unit 1990-1993)
2 = Fuel pump
3 = Seat belt warning
4 = Upshift indicator control unit
5 = A/C
6 = Horns
7 = open
8 = Load reduction
9 = open
10= Intermittent wipers
11= open
12= Turn signals, emergency flashers
13= open
14= Hot-start pulse relay (1985-7/1987); Cold-start enrichment (7/1987-1989); Radiator fan after-run control unit (1990-1993)
15= Fuel injection power supply (1985-1989); Starter interlock (6/1990-1993 w/ auto trans.)
16= Idle speed boost/stabilizer control unit (1985-1989); Hot-start pulse relay (7/1987-1989); open (1990-1993)
17= A/C thermofuse (30); Power top circuit breaker (20)
18= Coolant low-level warning control unit; Idle boost control unit (7/1987-1989)
19= Power window fuse (20)
20= open
21= open
22= open
23= open
24= open
It has nothing to do with the number on them. These are for VW's use only to be able to identify them easy I guess.
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If anyone could take a photo of their fuse box it would be appreciated, so I can see what numbered relays I should have. ItÂ’s just I have box of relays and am unsure of which numbers I need.
My local VW dealer isnÂ’t that helpfully, I get the impression there only interested in newer cars.
Andy
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(http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~kaw5/fusepanel.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/BLACK_cabbie/Interior/IMGP5073.jpg)
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Thanks for photoÂ’s mate, also manage to find out itÂ’s a relay with 62 stamped on it and it does go in position 2 (I had a one with No1 stamped on it, didnÂ’t help).
Unfortunately still not cured it, could you tell me when you switch your ignition on does the fuel pump activate? ItÂ’s just mine doesnÂ’t but as soon as I turn it over it energises, but is flooding the engine.
IÂ’ve also noticed 3 plugs/wires off like you have on yours, is this right itÂ’s just I cant find a home for them ?
MORE PHOTOÂ’S PLEASE PEOPLE, I need to find what number relay goes in position 15. ItÂ’s for the fuel injection system, could you let me know the part number on yours please black cabbie.
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Andy, do you still need info on this ? I'm going to the Newark meet on 3rd April and I could ask someone there with a digi cam to take some pics for you. What do you need to know ? :smiley:
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Gibby, still struggling if you could get me a couple of photos it would be appreciated, especially if there 1989 models.
Could some one also please tell me if I right in thinking when I switch my ignition on the fuel pump should run for a couple of seconds and then shut off.
Black cabbie what year is your golf mate and is it an injection model. If itÂ’s a injection model would you be able to tell me if you bridge points 1 and 5 (Please see http://volkswagen.msk.ru/vw_doc/eva2/FU01/ch4.3.1.html not sure how to copy it over) when you switch the ignition on does it power up. ItÂ’s just on mine when I put a bulb in line and switch the ignition on it powers up for a couple of seconds than goes really bright. Do you know (or anyone) if this is right ?
Please help someone, I really want to get her running for this summer, as IÂ’ve just realised its actually been about 6years since I last used her.
Andy
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The fuel pump relay is giving 12V for a few seconds to bult some pressure in the system. Then it stop until the engine is started. If you are wondering why it doesn't continue to pump gass, think of this. Imagine you have an accident and the engine is off but the key is in the ON position. Pump is still pumping like crazy. Small fuel leak somewhere and voila. You have Cabriolet flampe!
As for the pins on the relay. What exactly are you trying to check?
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The problem I have is when I turn the ignition to the on position the fuel pump doesnÂ’t make a sound i.e. doesnÂ’t pump. But when I turn the car over the pump will pump and is flooding the car something cryonic. :angry:
So I’m trying to work out if the relay is up the shoot (£45 for a new one) or has something happened to wiring, or even have I upset something when I changed the fuel pump on the car.
Any suggestions ???
Whats Cabriolet flampe! :laugh:
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Andy, if it is the fuel pump relay, £45 seems a bit steep ! :shocked: Is that from the main stealers ? Try ECP they should be able to do that cheaper and so would VW I'd have said. :undecided:
I think black_cabbie meant "flambe" as in, you'll cook your car ! :grin:
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go down a scrapyard and take one off a mk2 injected car same unit cost you a £1 then. my relay welded itself and burnt out. I used to have problems with the pump alot of it was down to the pump itself being blocked by rust in the tank. i replaced the fusebox cleaned all the contacts and plugged it all back in. If you can get to a yard take one off a MK2 they charge peanuts and you may find one already set up for you just a straight swop.
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Are you sure it floods the engine? As far as I know the fuel pressure regulator adjusts how many bars the fuel system is supposed to have (3 bars for Digi cars) and the rest of the fuel is sent back to the tank.
So maybe you have another problem. The relay is one thing. Does the engine run?
Btw, your car has two fuel pumps. The transfer pump in the tank and the main pump. The transfer can go bad after a few years, destroying the main pump as well. So If I were you, I would remove the rear seat, undo the black round cover, get the pump out, clean the little screen it has to filter the fuel and try if it pumps fuel. If all is well, put everything back together.
And cabriolet flampe is simply a cabriolet on fire :cry:
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You’d be right Gibby main stealers (lol) £39.99 + vat to be precise.
Just got back from searching around breakers yards with no success, in total I have must have been to about 10. I have looked in PoloÂ’s, JettaÂ’s GolfÂ’s (Mk 2 & 3s) CorradoÂ’s and VentoÂ’s and can not find one.ÂÂÂ
The relay I need has No ‘62’ stamped on the top of it.
Like I say have replaced the fuel pump under the car, but not the one in the tank. Does this one return fuel back to the car ? I will check it tonight or in the morning.
1. If I leave the fuel relay (62) plugged in and try and start the car, the pump will only run when I turn the car over and defiantly fills the bores. This way the car won’t start.
2. After I’ve don the above, if I remove the relay and turn it over for a while it will eventually start on the fuel in the bores. It will run for about 5-10 secs, revs up and sounds lovely :wink: (Scorpion back box). It will start and run a further 2 or 3 times.
3. What I have tried is once itÂ’s running plugging in the relay, but no fuel pump comes on, floods it and stalls.
I think your right black cabbie not only is the problem with pump or relay, I think there is a problem with unwanted fuel getting back to the tank. :sad:ÂÂÂ
Someone has also told me there is some kind of valve which controls fuel or air, located near the battery in the air box ??? Apparently these stick if left for a while. Am I able to check this or is it even likely it could be this ?
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First of all, you are supposed to have fuel returned back to tha tank. Just the excessive pressure.
As for the airbox, you are probably reffering to the warm air flap. its a little flap which is vacuum operated (small hose from the front of throttle body to the side of the airbox). This helps during the cold starts. It closes the inlet at the front the airbox and opens the rear which connect to a deflector on the back of the manifold. This way the idle is more stable and it helps warm up the engine quicker.
Then you have 2 more vacuum lines coming from the back of the throttle body going to the charcoal canister. These hoses dissapear in the fender near the battery and connect to a canister inside the fender. You can see it if you look in the arch. This is for emissions only and serves absolutely no purpose.
Something I didn't check. What year is your cab? Is it a digifant or a CIS? If its a CIS the charcoal canister thing is slightly different.
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Yes I realise unwanted fuel should be returned, but just wondered how this done.
I think itÂ’s a CIS, whatÂ’s an easy way to tell ?
Why do you think the fuel pump wonÂ’t pump when I turn the ignition on ?
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Urgent update, black cabbie & Gibby where are you !!!
Took the plunge today and ripped out £400Â’s worth of alarm and immobiliser and bought a relay from GSF.ÂÂÂ
Now the fuel pump energises when I switch the ignition on ( YEEESSS ), but its still flooding and wont run with the relay in.ÂÂÂ
Anyone any ideas, please !!!
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Maybe's a daft suggestion, but is the relay in the right place ? :undecided:
By the way, I got jv to take a photo of my fuse box and relays yesterday at the Newark meet, do you still need to look at it ? If so let me know and I'll sort the pics out. :smiley:
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AndyF,
I've just recently got a 1991 Sportline back on the road after 2 1/2 yrs sitting (rotting) in my work car park. It has K-tronic fuel injection (braided fuel hoses) and the fuel pump should buzz briefly when you turn the key to live just before contact. Whilst the engine is running, the pump runs continuously and any excess fuel goes back to the fuel tank. If you have the same system, I'll happily photograph my relays and send you a pic. Fuel pump relay should have 'fuel pump' embossed on it. Failing that I can give you the VW part number?
I changed fuel filter, air filter, oil and filter, plugs cam belt & tensioner, coolant, adjusted dizzy timing, Brake hoses and new fluid, and most recently unblocked drain holes in bulkhead (slight flooding problem). Car runs sweet as, I really am enjoying it more and more. LH roof handle broke off last friday - that's 95 pounds of squid for a new one from VW (ouch). Tyres have flat spots and vibrate over 70, but I 've had a ton out of her without sweating.
Best of luck
Goodo
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Paul, still looking for pictures if you have any thanks. IÂ’m 99% certain I have the right relay in the correct position finally, but still need to check the others.
Goodo canÂ’t wait to get mine back on the road, just missed out on a lovely weekend hopefully itÂ’s a taste of thing to come. If you could also take a photo I would be grateful.
I discovered yesterday that the pump in tank and fuel sender unit are absolutely knackered, both are covered in some horrible sticky stuff as well as being seriously corroded. If someone could host pictures it would be appreciated.
I rang round today and pump is going to be about £25, but struggling to get fuel sender unit looks like main dealer only at a mere £130. Any body know where I could try to get one cheaper ?
The car is still flooding, but IÂ’m hoping this may stop once I have replaced the above. If not anyone have any suggestions, as I thought the pump in the tank pumps to the external pump, so shouldnÂ’t stop fuel getting back to the tank.
Andy
P.s Goodo try ebay for your handle if its not to late, seen lots of them on there in the past.
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pic gibby requested at newark:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10291/IMG_1162.JPG
hope that helps :)
<link changed - i had just linked to the most recent upload which obviously quickly changes - muppet>
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Thanks JV certainly does, any idea what year car it come from ? :cool:
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gibby's J reg rivage
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I rang round today and pump is going to be about £25, but struggling to get fuel sender unit looks like main dealer only at a mere £130. Any body know where I could try to get one cheaper ?
Have you tried ECP or GSF ? :undecided:
I think my fuel relay switch is the big black one on the top left with no number on it. :undecided: