GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: jcth1 on 12 April 2011, 06:49
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Heres some pics of my golf as i bought it with the multispokes. Im in the process of changing it to make it handle better.
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_mk220golf20gti205.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=mk220golf20gti205.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_mk220golf20gti204.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=mk220golf20gti204.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_mk220golf20gti203.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=mk220golf20gti203.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_mk220golf20gti202.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=mk220golf20gti202.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_mk220golf20gti201.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=mk220golf20gti201.jpg)
Heres some pic of it in action at round 2 of www.sw-pc.com sprint championship
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_mk220golf20gti201.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=mk220golf20gti201.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC08828-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC08828-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC08827-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC08827-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC08826-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC08826-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC08825-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC08825-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC08824-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC08824-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC08823-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC08823-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC_0012-2-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC_0012-2-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC_0004-4-1.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC_0004-4-1.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC_1049.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC_1049.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/th_DSC_1048.jpg) (http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/johncoxuk3000/Golf%20Gti/?action=view¤t=DSC_1048.jpg)
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Get some door cards on it - you can buy sheets of Foamalux for not much and cut it to fit. This will make things slightly safer as you won't have sharp metal edges in the doors.
You should get a cage to mount those nasty harnesses on, or take them off - more likely to hurt you than OEM seatbelts in an accident.
Are the control arms stitch-welded? If not, get it done. What else have you done to sort the handling?
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Ive got a spec list on sw-pc ill bring across once the site is back up for maintenance.
mk3 suspension
2.0abf etc
The track racing i do is fairly low speed and well controlled. Harnesses seem fine and are bolted in to the exhaust tunnelvery well using 4mm plate and a decent set of bolts.
doors are gonna be gutted and polycarbs fitted for weight saving, rear wiper is coming out and im going to be swapping my pas for a driver non pas rack to save engine drag and further weight. In a straight line it cant beat a standard interior xr2 running a 130ps zetec. My mates stripped his xr2 so ive got to up my ante and further weight loss and do better starts as holding revs and dumping the clutch didnt get me off the line as quick as him with power on, clutch off method my mate used.
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You sure about that non-PAS swap?
Non-PAS racks are generally more turns lock to lock, so you'll need to spin that wheel faster to catch it if it steps out.
How have you mounted the shoulder straps on the harnesses?
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You sure about that non-PAS swap?
Non-PAS racks are generally more turns lock to lock, so you'll need to spin that wheel faster to catch it if it steps out.
How have you mounted the shoulder straps on the harnesses?
cheers for the advice. For the time being ill be happy with a non pas rack and maybe look for a better solution. Ive fitted a smaller wheel and boss, for which i need to document in photo's of my progress.
The shoulder straps go through two holes at the tops of the seats and down to the rear seat belt mounts. Spec list lifted from www.sw-pc.com is as:
1.8 16v Kr engine
powerflow induction panel, quite rare setup previous owner tells me
4 branch manifold
full magnex exhaust
poly bushed all round inc rear strut tops
bucket seats
harnesses
g60 calipers
braided brake hoses
koni adjustables
h and r springs on static drop
3 gauge vdo cluster though 1 needs hooking up and one needs backlight sorting
16'' oz supertourismos
samco hosing in places
Its been fully stripped and my plans are:#
carbon roof, tailgate and bonnet
poly windows all around
Remove sunroof mech and replace with something poly and scooby scoop until carbon roof is doable
remove heater and cooling system and replace with ceramic 12v cig lighter heater only
strut brace front upper, lower and rear
ARB's
5 stud from mk3 gti 16v, im purchasing weekly as we speak
2.0l ABF on Kjet conversion from aforementioned mk3 gti 16v
H.I.D's though not secure atm but would fancy some 55w's now
Sportier Steering wheel and Boss - Done
Decent Cage with fully weld in or bolted in on fabricated plates
Colour change to satin black in the short term and maybe met black in the future
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These guys for the polycarb windows:
http://www.acwmotorsportplastics.co.uk/
HIDs are illegal and will be cracked down on in the MOT shortly, so fitting a relay kit which will give you better headlights and keep it legal is the way forward.
Whyever would you put an ABF in on K-Jet? Are you looking to reduce its output? If you're buying the whole car then fit the Injection system. It will be more reliable and probably give better power and engine reliability.
My issue with the harnesses is that they're probably at +45degrees down to those points that were never designed to take the load you're putting on them. All this adds up to spinal compression in an accident.
The only way of getting round that is fitting a proper cage with harness mounts bars in the rear.
You would be better off keeping the faster PAS rack and fitting an electric PAS set up.
Here's a reasonable solution for the cage. (http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollcage/LoadRollCage.castle?manufacturer=Volkswagen&model=Golf%20Mk2&type=Multipoint) Then you'd need a coded welder to fit it properly.
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Being a sprint series, it's not an MSA-regulated event, so is superbly accessible motorsport. I assume you have a level of safety scrutineering and safety feature coercion though?
Cage-wise, there's no need to fit a multi-point cage with the weight penalty they bring, unless you have greater usage planned ahead. A Custom Cages Club kit (http://"http://www.customcages.co.uk/roll-cages/clubman-rollcages") should be more than enough, and in MSA events, non-caged cars are commonplate, cages not required for some production classes.
Cages do not require coded welders to install them, but you clearly need to satisfy yourself about the quality of welding. Alternately, a pre-assembled structure (OMP, Safety Devices etc) eliminate this issue, leaving you with just floor plates to install.
Harness guidance here: http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191416
Another potential source for plastic windows here: http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209821
I doubt it's a biggie, but if you plan to move onto MSA sprints, the ABF engine will be a problem. You can construct a basis to use a 9A in a Mk2 in the UK, off the back of the USA production of 9A GTIs though.
An electric PAS column does not work with a PAS Golf rack.
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Links now fixed.
See the first link. Harness bars are not mandated by the MSA, and scrutineers in racing clubs throughout the UK and beyond have plenty of vehicles participating within the recomended non-harness bar harness angles. If if wasn't 'ok' they, the motor club they represent, and indeed the MSA are open to being pursued for negligence should the worst happen.
Electric PAS does not solve the drag on the engine. It moves from the PAS motor pulley, to the alternator pulley :wink:
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Electric PAS does not solve the drag on the engine. It moves from the PAS motor pulley, to the alternator pulley :wink:
Not nessaseraly so.
load more on the alternator pully at part throttel is of no matter, who said the alternator would generating at all on full throttel :wink:
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thanks for all off your inputs. I feel that if the added weight of the pas wasnt there then it doesnt matter about added drag via the alternator or by running mechanical pas. No PAS, no weight, no drag and one less thing go wrong.
Ive got a driver rack sourced and although this means more turns lock to lock i would be much happier with loss of weight over turn in etc.
Doors and boot to be gutted soon and then eventually when i can afford it poly windows.
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Ive got a driver rack sourced and although this means more turns lock to lock i would be much happier with loss of weight over turn in etc.
Remind us of this when you've got a slap on and you can't catch it. :grin:
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Ive got a driver rack sourced and although this means more turns lock to lock i would be much happier with loss of weight over turn in etc.
Remind us of this when you've got a slap on and you can't catch it. :grin:
I will do. The driver rack will do until either a quick rack or a non pas rack from a gti can be sourced.
I was also looking at another golf forum where someone put an ABF in a mk2 on k jet and it dyno'd 161bhp without many engine mods. A digifant ABF made just over 150bhp i think, similar spec from what i remember. I heard here that k jets tend to run lean especially after a 2.0l lump goes in so could i get the car setup to run 97 ron or even 99 ron if i can find it to compensate??
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Hi, I think I recgonise that 161bhp figure straight off!
This is the air-fuel graph for it, showing how it was performing:
(http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww316/ClubGTI/Events/StreamlineRR06112009/Trackcab16vABFonK-Jet.jpg)
I've driven the car (I don't own it) several times, and it's been used hard, and been awesomely reliable, no melt downs etc. It has got cams in it and a flowed head. It's on here @ 2:02s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAnfFlRZqdA
Ultimately if K-Jet is what you want, you can do it with a 2.0 litre.
But that's 161bhp. Here is another ABF on Megasquirt, bog standard, which was running on K-Jet, 150bhp. Add Megasquirt: 174bhp. It was subsequently tweaked over the course of time to 181bhp, the graph shows the before/afters:
(http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a434/thegtiman/P1020846.jpg)
It's just diligent development, putting full management on the car and then optimising it to the max. Not bad for standard mechanicals!!
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cheers. I fancy k jet as its mainly the block that goes in with all k jet sensors etc. I would like to run digifant and fit the mk3 pedal box and go o2a box in the winter when racing is over. I just cant seem to locate a usefull tutorial as im handy with spanners just not too handy so its a good learning process for myself.
Im building up to being able to do a DMF and clutch replacement on my leon tdi when that will need doing - 123k atm
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You can do 02A without fannying about with Golf3 pedal boxes.
Digi3 will normally keep the ABF on the straight an narrow longer than K-donk.
DannyP's ABF dynoed out at +170bhp with an ABF on Digi3 and a homebrew four-branch on it, with no mods to the engine.
Why put anything other than the OEM management on it unless you want to spend hours and hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds trying to match those figures? :huh:
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I've driven the car (I don't own it) several times, and it's been used hard, and been awesomely reliable, no melt downs etc. It has got cams in it and a flowed head. It's on here @ 2:02s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAnfFlRZqdA
Excellent choice of songs for that video :cool:
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Thanks, I put the vid together and chose the music!
DannyP's ABF dynoed out at +170bhp with an ABF on Digi3 and a homebrew four-branch on it, with no mods to the engine.
Why put anything other than the OEM management on it unless you want to spend hours and hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds trying to match those figures? :huh:
Clearly dynos differ, so asked the dyno operator what is the best output he's seen on that dyno with a Digi 3 16v. He's had many 16vs on there, and the answer back was 168bhp with a 4 branch. Lowest was 146bhp, fully standard, standard average around 155bhp.
The only reason to put non-OEM management on it is to enable more user-friendly remapping, and obviously to take the scientifically proven gains available, rather than dealing with the relatively specialist job of interrogating ABF ECUs. I appreciate that it may look like a lot of money was spent, but the reality is the Megasquirt box was self built and the operator has seen many 16v maps, so a start map wasn't difficult. It cost time, but with a little knowledge and folk who avail themlseves in Club circles, not actually lot of money.
There are nearly 20 16v cars in varying states of tune going on the same dyno for a dedicated 16v sesh this coming Sunday, and there should be some fascinating data from that.
I appreciate the OP is interested in sticking with K-Jet, but interesting and solid data to add here all the same & the operator does take his 16v studies seriously!
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meh it pulled 170 on other rollers, one set in particular are very accurate
but toyotec is not the only one who has done resarch into the 16v's
i'm useing an engine dyno tho. and refreshed bottom ends + heads
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Which type of rolling road was it out of interest? Or you say it's an engine dyno?
The 170 figure is entirely ballpark, though the 168 car is an exceptional motor on the particular set of rollers involved here, but as we know, like-for-like only works on the same dyno, which is why 20 are going on the same road this weekend. More the merrier and very welcome to bring yours if it would be of interest and add any context to your work.
Toyotec has done a whole heap of work on the 16v, others must have data too, but just less obviously, as he publishes his findings, power to the people etc.
Slight off topicness, hope that's ok!
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i'll be useing superflow engine dynos machenes for the 16v tests
the ABF'ed syncro went on a couple of dyno dyanamics machenes and ( with the center prop off a mustang )
anyway not that matters i was supriesed with what it pulled when it did it but it kept doing it and everyone who drove it thought it was quick enough to have that power. but i chouldn't care anymore it blew up a long time ago now and much more potent engnes have been in it's place.
it is however the reason you have never found any of the stuff i publish. i do publish stuff but i may not make it easy to find but those who it's there for find it. you'll never see any of it on club GTi, as for some reason i can post there proably has something to do with gumperts and radicals
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That's proper benchtest machinery!
I guess some you have some posts in this forum maybe? Definitely would be interested to see.
Eak, a mention of the R word!! G FTW :grin:
I've just checked your account and it's all absolutely fine. Just 2 posts made though, funnily enough both about ABF tuning!
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1754924#post1754924
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1756183#post1756183
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this is now up for sale. Will put it up in the classifieds now