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General => The garage => Topic started by: DECKED-MK3-DUB on 04 March 2011, 19:53
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Evening all....
After some serious advice now guys
Bin away from site for a while after a serious crash in my old vr6 golf which nearly killed me thats a story for another day lol, i decided i wanted another vr6 so i just bought a vr6 vento on a n plate 2.8 vr6... I bought it with head gasket gone, well so to speak. Need some help becasue im not so sure it's the head gasket..
Car runs fine, never over heats, temp guage stays at half way all the time, fans cut in and no white smoke or pressure build up in the coolant system.. But i have a thin build up of oil type residue in the top of the header tank, like a creamy brown floating on top...
Now the oil isnt to bad, it looks abit creamy but not too bad,..
I took the oil cooler off and tested it in a bucket of water, by blocking off 1 end of the cooler and blowing in the other end with a air line blower, had a few bubbles then it stopped but the few bubbles may have just been trapped air as i submerged it into the bucket ?
Im wondering if it is possible that the oil cooler leaks when its warmed up, i know oil runs in the 100 degress and coolant around 90 degress so i was wondering if maybe when the car warms up it then makes a hair line gap allowing the oil into the water.. Like i said i dont have a coolant system full of oil nor a sump full of water, just a tiny amount of oil/brown sludge floating around on top the header tank...
If its not the oil cooler is there any thing else it could be appart from head gasket ?
Are the head gaskets prone to letting oil in the coolant system ??
Help would be greatly loved lol, as tomoz i may rip the engine out and just get a whole new lump... The 1 in there has only done 100 k hardly run in for a vr6 so i thought i would try and repair it if i could...
Cheers in advace....
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Bypass the oil cooler, see if you still keep getting oil in the water, after its been flushed.
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Bypass the oil cooler, see if you still keep getting oil in the water, after its been flushed.
Leaving the oil cooler in place just join the pipes up ?? A new oil cooler is only £26 plus vat so no to expensive..
Is it ok to run it with oil cooler coolant pipes off of it??
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Bypass the oil cooler, see if you still keep getting oil in the water, after its been flushed.
Leaving the oil cooler in place just join the pipes up ?? A new oil cooler is only £26 plus vat so no to expensive..
Is it ok to run it with oil cooler coolant pipes off of it??
Nope join them together and then retry it. :smiley:
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Bypass the oil cooler, see if you still keep getting oil in the water, after its been flushed.
Leaving the oil cooler in place just join the pipes up ?? A new oil cooler is only £26 plus vat so no to expensive..
Is it ok to run it with oil cooler coolant pipes off of it??
Its up to you. You could fit a new cooler as its cheap, or just connect the pipes.
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Im not convinced its oil cooler.... I think i may be looking at a more serious problem like head gasket or summit..
Seams like alot of oil in the water, and considering i have now tested the oil cooler and still no bubbles im thinking its time to get down and dirty and rip the head off..
Has any body else had a head gasket problem where the oil goes into the water on a vr6 golf, it may even be the heads cracked around the oil gallery, i heard from the previous owner it was fine till we had the cold weather, but he did say he didnt check the water for 3 months after so it may have happened long time after the cold snap...
Any body done a head gasket on one ? I also have to chance the gear box so i may just drop the engine and box right out the car...
Cheers guys :0)
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Could still be the cooler, they are well known for failing :smiley:
It is a lot easier than replacing the head gasket.
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yep id say cooler. were no other signs of failure such as bubbles, just a fk load of oil in my coolant. since it takes all of 20 minutes to remove the hoses and bridge them together, why not try it?
to flush the coolant drain it all out then flush with a hosepipe. fill it with plainwater and a cup of bio washing powder, then run it till the thermostat opens and the fan kicks in. then switch engien off, allow to cool then drain and flush with hosepipe again, repeat till oil is gone.
put fresh coolant in then drive it for a few days, see if the oil comes back. oil dripping out of the oil cooler ports is a givaway
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I took it off and gave it to a engineering company who skim heads etc and they tested it at 100 psi and no signs of leaks at all so i bit the bullet and pulled the head off it today..
Took me 2 hr 20 minz to get the head off, i am a mechanic so having use of work shop is a added bonus, seams the head gasket had gone accross the oil way to the water way so at least i found a problem...
Good job i took the head off as the timing tensioner side guide had totaly worn away down to metal rivits so another few miles and id be looking at bent valves so pleased bout that... how ever i cant get the guide out because the timing cover is bolted behind the gear box, so all the box has to come out now in order to change that guide :cry:
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Good job i took the head off as the timing tensioner side guide had totaly worn away down to metal rivits so another few miles and id be looking at bent valves so pleased bout that... how ever i cant get the guide out because the timing cover is bolted behind the gear box, so all the box has to come out now in order to change that guide :cry:
At least you found the problem, to replace the chains and tensioners is gearbox off, also easier with the engine out.
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Yeah i had a feeling that was the case, no point in comming this far then cutting corners...
I have a new gear box to go in any how so i will prob drop engine and box out as a job lot on the subframe i think....
Any body know a place who does a complete chain timing kit ?? or is it a main dealer jobbie buying it all as seperates ??
Thanks guys...
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I have a new gear box to go in any how so i will prob drop engine and box out as a job lot on the subframe i think....
Yep best to drop the whole lot down in one go.
Any body know a place who does a complete chain timing kit ?? or is it a main dealer jobbie buying it all as seperates ??
I would start with VW and go from there, at least with genuine you know what you got it is not really a job you want to do twice. :smiley:
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I decided to leave the block in the car, now the heads off and all the front of the car it was easy to drop gear box off..
I ordered new guides, i didnt bother with the chain as its a double link chain which is pretty strong.. The whole kit inc sprockets and chains, tensioners etc is over £400... More than what the cars worth tbh..
Ill take my chances on the chains and just replace all the guides since 2 of mine where broken so really was a good job i took the head off else few hundred miles it woulda stopped with a bang :shocked:
Just goes to show even with full service history by vw them selfs and only 100 k on clock the chains and guides still suffer... The guide that runs tensioner side on mine had worn away to nothing just showing the metal rivits on a peice of plastic lol, gonna take the lower timing cover off tomoz or thursday to see if theres any more damage behind there :rolleyes:
Must say thou, the vr6 heads are a doddle to get off, timing chain is fiddly but if you wernt going to change them or the guides then head gasket job is easy... Good old german n sweedish provided all my bits... There dirt cheap and elring gaskets which are a good make...
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You are crazy to not replace the chain, it is well know for breaking or stretching.
Even with new tensioners your running the risk of a big failure.
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You are crazy to not replace the chain, it is well know for breaking or stretching.
Even with new tensioners your running the risk of a big failure.
Ok, any idea where i can get sum cheap chains... Do both chains need replacing or just the double linked cam chain ??
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Even though the chains may not fail, i would still replace the whole lot, chains/guides/tensioners.
It may be expensive, but peace of mind is what its about.
Have you tried vw? or maybe GSF/ECP sell it.
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I finished taking the gear box off today,to then find out the clutch and fly wheel also need to come off to gain access to the lower timing cover... :laugh: crazy design...
Long and short of it, your all right, whats the point in doing head gasket, clutch, timing guides, and god knows what else if the chains are going to fail...
I rang tps in exeter as we have a account with them and to my supprise it was dirt cheap :grin:
Double chain £40
single chain £40
4 x guides £52..
Got the whole lot for £132 delivered and is going to be here friday morning :smiley:
Im not going to replace the sprockets, becasue the cost is spiriling outta control as it is, i bought the car as a long term project but i just cant resist fiddling at lunch times and after work and now im desperate to have her on the rd ready for run to the sun...
I wish now i took the engine out, i got all the front off the car, the head and manifolds, all hoses, battery, gear box, clutch, fly wheel the list goes on, cars surrounded in nut and bolts... Guess im lucky to have a work shop to do it in...
A few pics if any ones interested...
Shortly after starting
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff471/decked-vento-vr6/IMG_0072.jpg)
inlets off
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff471/decked-vento-vr6/IMG_0082.jpg)
Head off
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff471/decked-vento-vr6/IMG_0085.jpg)
And my broken timing guide
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff471/decked-vento-vr6/IMG_0104.jpg)
It obvious that the chain is streched hense why its chewed the top guide off...
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Not a bad price for the chains in the end, well worth doing. :smiley:
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Yer your right mate... Gsf told me they didnt have the chains for the vr6 but the web site says bottom chain £20 and top chain £30...
I got a genuine vw kit in end and for £132 all in im pleased, got the savage job now of putting it all bk together....
I gotta change the sump cus my one has a huge dent init so tempted to change ring and shells since the engines totaly in bit really.. Where do you stop thou lol.... :rolleyes:
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After removing the lower chain today i noticed that the guide for that chain was broken in 4 peices...
Any body with a vr6 take note !!!! they do strech and break guides...
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I don't think the chains are the problem, its the guides themselves, they aren't made to last.
When i did the head on my old vr years ago, the upper guide was pretty worn out, the chain had no wear on it at all.
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^Yeah i agree mate, the top guide that the cam chain tensioner pushes against was totaly worn away, the lower chain guide broke in 4 peices, but my chains where worn out becasue it wouldnt sit on it timing marks proper becasue of to much slop in the chains..
Tomoz is the day i put the old girl back together, got £400 of new parts, a skimmed head, new clutch and gear box cumming soon if i can find one....
Not looking forward to it lol, but 1 bolt at a time and ill get there lol :grin:
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^Yeah i agree mate, the top guide that the cam chain tensioner pushes against was totaly worn away, the lower chain guide broke in 4 peices, but my chains where worn out becasue it wouldnt sit on it timing marks proper becasue of to much slop in the chains..
Tomoz is the day i put the old girl back together, got £400 of new parts, a skimmed head, new clutch and gear box cumming soon if i can find one....
Not looking forward to it lol, but 1 bolt at a time and ill get there lol :grin:
Have you got new head bolts btw.
Good luck with it all. :afro:
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Yes mate, i most deffo have.. My new list of parts as follows
Skimmed and tested head
Complete head set
Head bolts
4 timing guides
2 timing chains
new clutch
water pump
spark plugs
leads
oil n oil filter
New water pipe that i broke cumming out water pump :undecided:
Altinator belt
And a peter russek manual lol.... Just gotta get down the work shop now and find the energy to put it all bk together, all i need now is a gear box and i can complete the project vento ready for run to the sun in may :grin: :grin:
Cheers guys