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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: tech1889 on 27 February 2011, 23:24

Title: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 27 February 2011, 23:24
Well guys i dont venture into this neck of the woods very often.. but as always i have a question to ask the knowledgeable mk3 owners..

I have got an ABF lump going into my mk2 shell (i know its not mk3 but its a mk3 engine) I have been recommended by people to supercharge it as im on a budget and cant afford to go down the turbo route..

I have read bits and bobs online but couldnt find nothing concrete...

Im curious on a few things..

I know i need a m62 Eaton charger but what are these from vehicle or manufacturer ?? Mercedes ??
What else do i need ??
Does anyone make up brackets to mount ??
what management would you recommend running it on ??
Do i have to forge the internal or could i get away with running low boost ??
What BHP should i expect from fitting one of these chargers ??
need bigger injectors ?? 20vt inlet and injectors ??

Any advice anyone has will be much appreciated  :smiley:

Dan
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2011, 07:59
M62 is from a Mercedes C230K I believe, M45 will not be anygood on a ABF.

Have a read of: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=101392.0

Managment wise I would say Omex, internals will be fine on low boost but run uprated rod / head bolts and of course you will need to drop compression.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: Len on 28 February 2011, 08:15
I dont think you will save much money! Its all gonna cost!

You should also lower the compression ratio of your abf.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 28 February 2011, 09:58
Thing is if I went turbo I would go big turbo like gt28..

How shall I lower comp.. Low comp pistons ?? Stacked gaskets ??

Cheers for advice on charger.. Do you know where I could get a bracket made up ??

Dan
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tshirt2k on 28 February 2011, 10:12
Thing is if I went turbo I would go big turbo like gt28..

How shall I lower comp.. Low comp pistons ?? Stacked gaskets ??

Low compression pistons and rods is the ideal way but stacked gaskets can work fine. Many others have done it including myself and have been fine foe 10k miles.
 
Cheers for advice on charger.. Do you know where I could get a bracket made up ??

Brackets can be made by some people on cgti or ed38.
Try contacting someone called n7ndo. He has made one running around 220hp on megasquirt I think


Dan

Look at my sig for what I did to my engine for turbo preparation. Same principle on the block but with a turbo instead of a charger
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2011, 10:19

How shall I lower comp.. Low comp pistons ?? Stacked gaskets ??


Stacked gaskets is ok, my choice would be lower comp pistons but it is your call.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tshirt2k on 28 February 2011, 10:40
He's on a budget so it's probably best to go stacked gaskets.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 28 February 2011, 10:44
So you highly recommend setting the engine up as though its taking a turbo and then just wack a charger on it ??

Am i going to need forged rods and pistons ?? I was thinking of uprated the the rods and ARP bolts for head and rods..

How much roughly are low comp pistons ??
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: Wayne on 28 February 2011, 10:48
If your running low boost you should not need forged rods, uprated rod bolts would be worth fitting.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 28 February 2011, 10:51
Yer yer was always gona fit uprated rod bolts.. might just save up and get low comp forged pistons and uprated rods.. then im ok for whatever application i can throw at it.. what compression i want ?? 8:5:1 ??

Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: Jimp on 28 February 2011, 11:54
Budget and boost are two words that don't go together. Do it once and do it properly. Check out the threads in Wayne's link above as they are very informative. Compression ratio will depend on things like flow rates and the charger's efficiency map. Lots of details in one of the Club GTI threads in the link. To be honest the savings between a supercharger and turbochager set up are pretty marginal in the grand scale of project costs. Most of the prep work (forged bits, fuels pumps upgrades, brake upgrades, injectors, etc.) and the aftermarket management set up are the same, just the power delivery at the end changes. And don't spec for low boost because you will want to turn the boost up, at which stage you'll need to rebuild again for higher boost.
I was planning a boosted Polo project with an initial cost thought to be ~€1.5k. After further research the cost was upped to ~€3k no matter if I went for a turbo or a supercharger. The final costs may have been more depending on how well mapping and everything went. Either way it was abandoned because things like education and food were my priority  :grin: It just shows how important it is to research fully before dedicating yourself to anything.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tshirt2k on 28 February 2011, 12:47
That's right. But who said stacked gaskets dont work? Toyotec on cgti has proved 300hp is reliable and possible on stacked gaskets and standard oe pistons and (2e) rods. He had even reused all the rod, head bolts. Many others have done this with good results. I have mine like this and at the moment I run 1 bar boost and have around 260hp / 260ftlb torque which is very drivable. I do have ARP head bolts though.

Compression ratio should be around 9:1. Going any lower will effect off boost performance. But good mapping should be able to deal with any det etc.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 28 February 2011, 22:48
With a m62 charger what bhp should I expect roughly I will have RTech set it all up.. I know it depends on pulley but just want to no an estimate I can aim for  :smiley:

And what belt will fit to run the charger ??

Going to run oe pistons.. New rings like you.. Arp hea and rod bolts.. 2 gaskets.. 2E rods.. Anything else ??
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tshirt2k on 01 March 2011, 15:04
With a m62 charger what bhp should I expect roughly I will have RTech set it all up.. I know it depends on pulley but just want to no an estimate I can aim for  :smiley:

And what belt will fit to run the charger ??

Going to run oe pistons.. New rings like you.. Arp hea and rod bolts.. 2 gaskets.. 2E rods.. Anything else ??



You should expect around 220hp if properly mapped. Megasquirt is a good option to run it. Many successful applications use it. Cgti is the place for info.
What ecu did you intend onusing? Standalone will be best. Intercooler, piping, silicone bends and alot more other bits. You will also have to think of an inlet manifold option to make boost run easier. S2 or modified TT/S3 are the prefered choice.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tshirt2k on 01 March 2011, 15:13
This thread (http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29506&hl=eaton%20abf&st=0) has alot of the info.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 01 March 2011, 19:37
Thanks mate your a star.. unfortunately ive found a flat i wana move to so just gona run standard ABF and use it as my daily and maybe do this over time  :smiley:
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: forsh on 02 March 2011, 14:35
doesnt a charger cost more?
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 02 March 2011, 21:41
only see one on ebay for £500 so not cheap.. yet you could source one from scrappy  :smiley:
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: dan_apps on 02 March 2011, 21:50
why do u want to supercharge it? if you are on a budget it isnt the best option! why dont you upgrade and overhaul the abf? gas flowed head, bottom end even dare i say megasquirt!
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 02 March 2011, 21:53
Alot of advice in this thread.
All i will say is anyone can make a reliable motor, but reliable for how long?
Don't cut corners.
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: tech1889 on 03 March 2011, 23:33
well any modified motor loses its reliability a bit only way you can help is to keep checking things i suppose..

dan ive realised how expensive the supercharge option is so that why im ditching it.. i am thinking over time that i will polish port and gas flow the head and do some cam work to it.. as i feel NA can be a good option if its done properly.. thing is with these engines there is so much to do so where do you start lol

At the moment its getting a new cambelt waterpump tesnsioner.. oil pump.. full clean of sump.. check over the head and compression test.. and a full service.. after its had all this and its running in the mk2 then i shall move on to better bits for it..
Title: Re: Super charger advice please
Post by: forsh on 04 March 2011, 11:07
buy a vr6 and turbo that