GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: emery1990 on 21 February 2011, 18:03
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I went to try and start my car today for the second time, first time I had a mare with a relay!
(I'm using megasquirt) I had my fuel pump wire disconnected as instructed and turned the engine to check for spark, I couldnt see a spark and after say 3 secs of turning the engine made a horrible clicking noise. Would this be the dizzy? I think I may have wired it up wrong as it's a 3 wire plug but I'm just using 2 ( eartha and tach signal)
Connected my pump wire and it primed so I must be doing something right. Unfortunately fuel pissed everywhere from where I thought it may, Joining new fuel hose (8mm) onto the old barbed connections which the k-jet used. But thought the clip may seal it, it didnt.
To solve this problem could I get an 8mm barbed connector to replace the smaller kjet one. Also where the 5th injector used to be, would I block this off, I haven't yet as thought I read somewhere you don't need to but probably wrong!
And if anyone knows, danny_p :smiley: When should the ecu light up ? as the light flickered for a bit when turning my engine checking for spark?
Oh and what size is the top rad hose? Looks like 1"1/4 ?
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could it be the starter motor clicking ?? and need to get that fuel line sorted asap lol
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re: the clicking, have you put the leads in the right order to the dizzy?
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Yer fuel hose I'm onto :grin:, nah its like 4 clicks a second!, I dont rekon I have, how can you tell what wires what, or do you have to use a multimeter?
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plug laptop into ECU, you can look at data from sensors and set it up.
think the default lights on the ecu are, i've forgoten, fuel, warmup enrichment. all 3 will flash on powerup then injection light will flash with each injection event and the warmup light will be on for however long it's in warmup mode
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Cheers mate, Don't get nothing yet just had it flicker at me, will sort out my dizzy wiring then see if that does anything.
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Danny-How do I wire up my dizzy anyway? as the diagram just shows tach signal going straight to the - on the dizzy?
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Sorted .
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Right, laptop doesnt pick up ecu with key in ignition, but when turning over the ecu lights flash.
Before I start it though..
At the front centre of the abf manifold there is a hole with a ribber rubber in it, what is this and what shall I do with it, is it a breather of some sort, I've got an induction now and not an airbox. And coming under the manifold towards where the airbox would be is a hose, is this the oil breather pipe, which needs a little oil filter cone on it yes.
And when I did turn it over it turns over but then makes that horrible clicking again.
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Anyone?
Is the hole at the front of the abf for an isv ? Therefore id blank it. Then id get a little oil filter thing from halfords.
Would like to get it started today.
edit.
Pretty sure I know this is some sort of of breather, as on abf pohoto's the hose goes to the air box, but I cant obviously as I've got an cone filer, so will buy one of them small filter's from halfords.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s108/emery1990/100_1575.jpg)
But still confused as what this pipe is, I thought that this pipe was the oil breather pipe.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s108/emery1990/100_1576.jpg)
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Thats sorted now, still doesnt start though, just trys to start, stops then does a mental clicking noise.
And sometimes a puff of smoke comes out of that hole.
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Right, it's the starter motor thats making the noise, the red lead from the alternator was off for some reason, where does this go back onto? Is this why the starter motor is just clicking?
Yesterday it did start up for about 1 second, made the vroom vroom sound, but my joy was short lived.
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The red lead goes from battery to starter to alternator. It goes on a big terminal on the alternator. There's a small blue wire also with a spade connector that should be on the male spade terminal on the alt.make sure u have a nice clean tight connection on the starter and alt, and that the other earth and trigger wires on it are good and clean. Make sure you have good power in the batt also. If it then turns over 4 ages with no firing, check your fuel and spark beacause if all else is right (and its defo got fuel in the tank) it should fire up quite quick even after an engine conversion/sitting a while.try not to turn it over for ages till it smokes cos its killing the starter
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Cheers mate, think It's kos that manifold hole I was on about is supose to be blanked off, but I've been leaving it it open with a filter on it. Must of knocked the wiring or something on the alternator. Should hopefully get it going if I blank off the hole and get the red lead back in place.
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So I've got a thick black wire going to starter motor, then the red lead coming from the alternator has to connect to the same bolt as the black one, to get 12v's yes? On a digi car ,ie abf do I have to remove the manifold to test for fuelling? But saying that the car started for 1 second so had to of got spark and fuel, just the starter clicks like mad after a while.
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It'll be the solenoid on the starter clicking, not the motor itself.. Could be down to not enough amps (ie flat battery) or jus a dodgey solenoid (maybe its old). Not too sure bout the inlet fanimold t off, I know on my kjet its still attached to the rubber breather pipe from block, its just the airbox end that's unattached, and that goes into my catch tank (lucozade bottle). Just to confirm spark, pull a plug out, stick it on the rocker or inlet so its earthed, then turn over briefly and look for spark.. take your battery off and charge it over night, then have another crack 2mrw and report what's happening..
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The hose is all sorted now anyway. Going to catch it, then hole on the mani is blocked off.
Ahh right, starter motors 5 months old, but probably been used 10x if that. I reckon it's the battery then, as if it de-charges quickly then it's obviously knackered. I'm going to cop if they dont give me another one though :angry: I've got a bosch battery too I thought I would use but think thats broke aswell, that broke the day I got the car when viewing it, can cars destroy batteries?
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If it drains it and doesn't replenish it by means of an alternator yeah. I duno, unless you've proved fuel and spark I'd be putting a good battery on it, having one more go, then getting someone who knows their m.s and mk2 wiring out to come have a butchers..I'm right in thinking its on ms isn't it?
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yer its on ms mate.Yer I'll sort out the battery tomoz, has to be that, theres not much to Ms wiring tbh lol I found my multimeter and it read 12.7 straight after I charged it up.
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After testing my coil it is fine, my hall sender is fine.
When removing the king lead from the coil and earthing it to my block, when cranking I cannot see a spark. So must it be a broken king lead if the coil is fine?
And is a whole lead or is it a spark plug that would be needed.?
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When cylinder one is fully compressed, should the rotor connector bit be facing ht lead1. I am guessing so. Just checked a guide and it is indeed 180 out somehow., how do I spin it back around.
Also my engine is hard to turn by hand for quite a lot of it, but theres a point where it's easy then turns stiff again. It turns over though so not fully seized, just thinking maybe a bit of rust ?
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Its compression and friction fighting against you. Yes when no.1 is at tdc your rotor arm should point at the notch, which is at the 11 o'clock (ish) position on the dizzy. If it is out majorly your timing is way out. Set your timing up properly, and it should be almost bang on the mark. then little dizzy adjustments will fine tune it. You cant be 180degs out though, else the engine wouldn't turn. Have you touched or altered the engine/timing belt/ dizzy/ inter-cam timing? It sounds like your breaking your car as your trying to fix it!!
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cheers mate, seriously it is lol Thats with cylinder one at tdc!! 180 out, my engine doesnt start, but turns. Nope havnt touched anything on the engine lol Thats why I'm confused, ms doesnt require any engine mods, so it should all be like it was before I sorned my car! How do I change the timing, someone said to loosen dizzy bolts and turn the dizzy, but I'm pretty sure when I took of my rocker cover that the cam markings wouldnt of lined up. Only the mechanic has touched timing. he said it was pinking so must of retarded it.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s108/emery1990/100_1597.jpg)
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Well if your right bout it being 180 degs out someones messed up the timing big time. Without meaning to plug another forum, go on cgti, and set up your timing as per the 'static timing' setup guide..that involves removing rocker cover for intercam timing etc.once that's done the rotor arm will be on the mark somewhere, and looseing dizzy bolts and turning fine tunes spark timing. but no you can't just loosen dizzy and turn it if the cams aren't in the right position..back to basics it sounds like for you I'm afraid!!
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I've looked at that thread a few times and looks simple, but it doesnt tell you how to change it if it's wrong lol, just shows what it should be like. Would I just loosen off the cambelt so it allows me turn everything around to were it should be.
The rotor arm is facing totally opposite to where it should be so thats why I'm thinking its 180 out. It always ran before I stripped out the k-jet ( not touching the engine!) Nevermind, it's a learning curve
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Yeah, you just remove cambelt and turn cams, then put belt bk on and tension. Spin over a few times by hand and check its all in time still..that's if the cams are in time with each other, but out of synch with the bottom end.. If, say when you turn the cams round, and 1 inner dot is in the right position, and the other isn't, you'll have to loosen off the cam caps, remove cams, move whichever 1 needs to be, then keeping chain tension lower them bk in and tighten..you have to torque the cam caps with a torque wrench, and pay attention to the way round the caps are etc etc. Basically check everything a million times over before you seal the rocker cover and replace manifold etc, be systematic/ methodical... If you can't, get someone round who knows what they're doing!!
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Cheers mate, sounds easy enough tbh, just have to check it over and over as you say to double check I won't blow my engine to bits when starting!
I've also been told to switch my ht leads around untill 1 is where the rotor arm and see if it sparks like that, but tbh my last time I looked my cam markings looked off, so I'd rather get them lined up first.
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Not too sure about putting lead 1 where it is and going from there, it sounds like ur bottom end is a turn out from top. It does 2 turns to the tops 1 remember.. Get the rocker cover off, and have a look from there. I always go clockwise on the cam and crank bolt when turning, to make sure your tightening it and don't risk cracking the bolt off going backwards,and get a haynes if you haven't already, it reminds you about cam cap orientation etc etc. And remember turn over by hand a few times once tensioned and check all is still in the right place.. Though if you haven't touched the engine its v weird if it is that messed up. Someones done it somewhere along the line..
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Cheers mate, rocker cover off, everythings done a 180! cam markings are in line but facing away from eachother, the cam pulleys facing down and the dizzy. Christ knows how this has happened.
Got a haynes manual, so everything in there to tell me how to get it back right.
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It sounds like the cams are ok, and don't need to be removed and repositioned. It seems They're just out with the bottom end. Start by turning the engine to tdc on flywheel notch(through gearbox green bung) you can put a long shaft screwdriver down cyl 1 to confirm its tdc.Loosen tensioner and remove cambelt from top pulley. Turn cams clockwise until the marks come round to touch at the inner quarter to three position as per haynes..then refit the belt,(just check gearbox mark hasn't moved) and tension it.if your happy with all the marks lining up as they should, turn the bottom pulley over twice to check its still right. Do this before replacing rocker cover to confirm cam dots are in position, offer the rockercover on and it should line up the cambelt pulley mark with the rockercover mark as well.
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Your a star mate thanks. Yer got a long spade drill bit in atm to confirm tdc in cyl 1.
Doesn't too hard then by sound of things, will update later on!. Check gearbox tdc and green bung has been put through :sad: So someones been lazy and just punched it through to check it and not replacing it, all sorts of crap could of got in there! and it looks dry? But it is at tdc :smiley:
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I haven't replaced my green bung from when I removed it. Its still clean and dry in there though luckily..yeah basically get cyl no.1 to tdc, loosen off belt, turn cams to tdc (inner dots and outer mark on pulley) replace belt, tension up, and turn a few times to confirm. You may be a tooth out or somethin first time so check accurately. Then just a case of putting all back together... Hang on a minute,, are you sure you don't need to just turn the bottom over 1 more time?! As its 2:1.. We could be on a major novice error here!!!
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Lol I've already loosened off my cambelt from the pulley, but when I turning it, the big 23mm bolt? it doesnt go the whole way round, if I go anticlockwise it did and nearly took my fingers off, but wouldnt go any more. Clockwise it wouldnt budge. What do you mean turn it over by the crankshaft all connected.?
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Too re tighten my cambelt I have got the straight section tight, but the tensioner part is loose, do I need a special tool to rotate the tensioner as I cant get it too spin round more to tighten the belt, or any tricks people have to tensioning the tensioner?
I'll try and rotate the engine first as you said 2:1, before I start fiddling with the timing.
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There's two holes on the tensioner that you put a tool in, turn, and when the right tension is achieved you nip the nut up to hold it there.. I've got some long nose pliers that are bent halfway down, that do the job nicely. Or you can improvise using a rivet etc in one hole, and lever it over, its a bit hard to explain but you'll see how to improvise when you see how it works.. Yeah get a socket on the big cam pulley bolt and turn slowly to position.. But yeah before you loosen the belt and do all that, spin the bottom bolt over 360degs and see if the top comes round into position because from what I can grasp it sounds like the timings ok after all!!!
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Yer I rekon I could make something up, got some spare pliers lying around, Yer the tools is like the ones on disc cutters, two holes etc.
Yer think it could be actually :grin:, hope so anyway! Looks like it could be a tooth out though so will prob need to adjust it a bit though.
So say it was timed up right anyway, I go and spin it 360 degrees, that makes it go out of timing, 720 degrees is how much it should be turned if ever turning it by hand.
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Yeah. Two turns on the bottom turns the top once. When you go from tdc on the crank, and turn it 360, the top pulley will only have done half a turn, making the cam tdc mark point 180degs out. Then you turn the bottom over again to get the top to come full circle..that's how 4 strokes work..
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Cheers mate, will get belt tensioned then try that, probs whats the issue anyway by the sound of things.
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No I'm saying its probably not a problem at all and shouldn't have been touched!! I skim read what you said about bottom being tdc and cam being out, and sorta presumed it was out by a few teeth, not half cycle out! Plus you said it wouldn't turn over, as if its locking out, but you just need to turn harder!!v novice error on both behalfs!!
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Haha yer, thanks for ya help mate.
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I still think its an m.s problem, or a wiring problem. Have you checked for a spark, and fuel? didn't it turn over a while bk?
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LOL I know you do! Nah it didnt have spark, changed my coil then took out all spark plugs and cranked the engine ( fuel pump not connected) and they all fired up, but then it was 180 degrees out so obv wouldn't start.
My wiring is 100% correct, there is nothing to it seriously, well M.S anyway, it's a possibily the cars wiring could be an issue. I cut into the fuel trigger wire for my fuel pump, then one ignition wire, which was my window one as they arn't working, so got to fix that! And that's it wiring wise. Other ms wiring is fresh straight from the ms loom.
When I first ever tried it, it started for one second, then never again.
My spark plugs where covered in unburnt fuel when I took them out( clean now) so must be getting fuel. Tunerstudio is saying fuel pump is on when cranking.
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Well if it started once then it isn't your timing or the engine. Which leaves the ignition and injection system. Order some new injector seals from vw, pull the injectors out, and check for fuel. If no fuel, leave them out until you've found the problem, and cured it, and proved it, then refit with the new seals..pull a plug again and check that as well. Separate to the injectors too, don't test together or you and your car might burn
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That's what I thought, then started fiddling and now put my timing out :laugh: Ohwell good to learn the hard way. Ok I'll get some seals ordered in. But I havn't tried it yet with my new coil. Could it have started up for a second then broke the coil ?
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If it did its very coincidental, but its most likely your wiring is at fault. It might kill your new one. Sometimes a switched open neutral can kill coils (in a.c anyway) in your case it may have been a poor earth on it,or you put the connections on the wrong way round or something, I dont know.sounds like your motors a bit of a joke, or you dont know where you are with it?! Where was the methodical thinking upon the conversion? The notes, the photos, wiring diagrams, fuseboard info, any other help you may need,so your understanding everything your touching..no offence but my 1.3 carb to 2.0 16v started on the first turn of key, and I knew it would! And I'm no mechanic trust me!
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Well it just aint starting, checked my ms wiring over again and nothing, all earthed to the right places.
I got all the help I could of got, nothing I done was from my own thinking, always asked someone if it was right.
Getting info for an ms conversion on the 9a isnt easy, no photos etc, just a wiring diagram that was wrong anyway
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I think a pro is needed :smiley: Call Nick at RTech i believe he knows all about megasquirt as thats what he wanted me to run my ABF on..
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Well checked wiring again and checked with ms pros if earthing was ok, they said it needs changing a bit but wouldn't cause a shortage, so havn't touched any other wiring, so god knows why it would be shorten, unless there was an open circuit that has always been there and whilst I've moving stuff bout it's showed up.
Don't know whether to just start it up and see if it blows my new coil! After changes to my earthing has been done.
Checked 4th time, 100% no sign of shorting on ms side of things.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Automotive-Compression-Tester-Kit-Petrol-Engines-Case-/300538375096?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45f97babb8#ht_1548wt_1062
Will that do the trick, only needs to work once.
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if you need to check compression then yes mate
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Heard you need a warm engine to do a test, my engine wont start :laugh: It was fine before so doubt it'd of broke over time? It could be something as simple as spark is timed wrong. It wasn't even shorting in the first I don't think ! This weekend I'll be flying I rekon. :smug:
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I never knew you needed a warm engine for a compression test.. thats stupid because lots of people check compression on engines not firing but are turning over.. what do they do get a electric blanket for the engine ?? :grin: :grin:
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Haha, thats what I thought.
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:laugh: Car started!!!! Only if I keep revs up, cuts out after lol Least I'm a step further! Thinking it's a vacuum leak, should the WUR (5th injector hole) get blocked up, and would be causing my lack of vacuum. Also this may sound stupid, but if my brake fluid is right down, would that cause a leak? Only because of the servo vacuum etc I dont think it does but thought I'd ask. Also my exhaust is othingyh on the downpipe (lack of back pressure)? And smoke comes from the floor instead of the exhaust.