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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Golf mk3 how to guides + info => Topic started by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 20:20

Title: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 20:20
Warning: If you use this method on the road, you will crash and instantly burn to death.

As a few of you where asking for a quick write up on using washers for camber, i'm running rear drums at the moment but it will be the same for rear discs and if you can't remove the rear discs / callipers you shouldn't be doing this :)

All you will need is a couple of M10 or M12 washers (i think it's M10)

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06640-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06640.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06640.jpg)

First thing you'll need to do (obviously) is stick some wood / a brick in front of the front wheels and take the hand brake off, jack the rear end up and take the wheel off.

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06633-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06633.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06633.jpg)

to see this

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06634-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06634.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06634.jpg)

Take the pin out and the cover off should have a large nut behind that, won't be too tight so just need to take that off

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06636-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06636.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06636.jpg)

Then take the washer and wheel bearing out should have these below out so far

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06637-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06637.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06637.jpg)

Pop the hub off (should come straight off with the hand brake off)

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06638-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06638.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06638.jpg)

should see this ring above, might take a few taps or a little tug with mole grips to pop it off

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06639-1.jpg)
Full Size: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06639.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06639.jpg)

Due to my bolts being rounded off can't get any more pictures but it's pretty simple from here, take the bottom two bolts fully out and loosen the top two off to get enough room to slip washers under the bottom two bolts.

A washer needs to go under the bottom left bolt on the picture, if you want more camber you want two washers under the left bolt and one under the bottom right, this stops you having as much toe.

I'm not recommending you do this as you will almost definatly crash and burn to death as i know some people will point out, but i'm using this method find with standard bolts and hundreds of other people are so any questions, i'll try and answer them for you :)

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 20:30
Perfect dan!!
Can't wait till tue morning!!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: tdi_blu on 06 February 2011, 20:38
Wasnt that long ago I had them rear shoes fitted  :grin:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 20:46
Wasnt that long ago I had them rear shoes fitted  :grin:

:D Going to give her a good clean up once i've finished the conversion, it's from being sat for so long :(

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 20:55
awesome!
so to get some camber one washer will be fine? :)
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 21:06
awesome!
so to get some camber one washer will be fine? :)

Yeah dude :) just put one on the front / bottom left bolt so that will reduce the toe!

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 21:10
just so im not a knob and cock up

one 1-2mm m10 washer here
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m195/M70REL/camber.jpg)
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 21:34
Yep :)
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 21:40
awesome looks like im going to be spending more money again haha
just spend £40 on wheel nuts :(
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 21:42
awesome looks like im going to be spending more money again haha
just spend £40 on wheel nuts :(

for two washers!? Could probably find them in your shed / garage / house :D or like 20p from a hardware shop.

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 21:43
haha i know i was taking the mick :P
these wheels have cost me too much already! hah
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: boneybradley on 07 February 2011, 09:50
I will sticky this and move to maintenece (In a day or two so people know it's here!)

let's hope the search function works when moved!!  :shocked:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: javalin on 07 February 2011, 13:38
its worth noting that when you put the drum back on (if you have drum brakes) that nut only needs to be finger tight - the one with the mole grips on it "Take the pin out and the cover off should have a large nut behind that, won't be too tight so just need to take that off"

It should just be tight enough to allow the washer behind it to be easily moved with a screw-driver.  If overtighted, the wheel bearing will overheat and you'll hit a tree.

James
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 07 February 2011, 14:20
its worth noting that when you put the drum back on (if you have drum brakes) that nut only needs to be finger tight - the one with the mole grips on it "Take the pin out and the cover off should have a large nut behind that, won't be too tight so just need to take that off"

It should just be tight enough to allow the washer behind it to be easily moved with a screw-driver.  If overtighted, the wheel bearing will overheat and you'll hit a tree.

James

Thanks for adding that :) mine was just slightly over finger tight so needed a slight tug with mole grips but didn't effect the movement of it, but yeah don't over tighten :D

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 07 February 2011, 14:39
its worth noting that when you put the drum back on (if you have drum brakes) that nut only needs to be finger tight - the one with the mole grips on it "Take the pin out and the cover off should have a large nut behind that, won't be too tight so just need to take that off"

It should just be tight enough to allow the washer behind it to be easily moved with a screw-driver.  If overtighted, the wheel bearing will overheat and you'll hit a tree.

James


Overtightening won't matter though if you live in an area that has no trees.
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: javalin on 07 February 2011, 14:43
"tree" of course is a generic term meaning "a solid object".... :wink:

this picture

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/dannymonday/DSC06636-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 07 February 2011, 14:46
It's cool, you can drive straight through this one mate.  :wink:

(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/38C2478F-102F-47F9-A21D-7E1E9AB863CC/42-15271540.jpg)

Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: javalin on 07 February 2011, 15:05
lol   :wink:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Jack3559 on 07 February 2011, 16:08
At first glance I thought that tree said 'camber tree'.
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: lemski on 07 February 2011, 16:20
Good stuff dan. I would do this if I needed more camber. But arches rolled its all good. :)
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: forsh on 08 February 2011, 18:35
anyone done this on a vr6

vr6s have discs all round dont they

i need info on vr6 camber :)


thanks
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 08 February 2011, 19:38
Should be same mate
I'll do a guide for discs as I go
Starting tomoz!!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 08 February 2011, 19:39
Exactly the same process applies across the entire mk3 Golf range, the only difference is that you'd unbolt the disc on a GTI or VR6 instead of the drum on a lower model.
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 08 February 2011, 21:43
Exactly the same process applies across the entire mk3 Golf range, the only difference is that you'd unbolt the disc on a GTI or VR6 instead of the drum on a lower model.

As said here, the bolts are pretty much exactly the same on the stub axle :)

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: stuyhird on 09 February 2011, 10:07
Buy looking at this mate its the n/s you have done with left hand bolt yea? so i take it that the o/s is the right side bolt you space yea??
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 10:43
Buy looking at this mate its the n/s you have done with left hand bolt yea? so i take it that the o/s is the right side bolt you space yea??

Yeah dude it's the bolt closest to the front wheel you want to put the washer under :)

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 12:52
ok, had a play this morning, took me ages cos all the bolts were a nightmare to release!!
taken pics too!
so for disc model - take your wheel off - then your caliper -

(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/cb2657e3.jpg)

then remove the bearing and disc -

(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/a390673c.jpg)

then CAREFULLY remove the large washer type thing that obscures the 4 stub axle bolts -

(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/d78ee0c1.jpg)

then as dan says, undo the bottom bolts completely and remove the washers, then undo the top bolts half way to allow the stub axle to move around.

now as said, you need to put the washer in the side nearest the front wheel, however today i tried 2 washers = 4mm lol on the front and 1 washer = 2mm on the back.
then carefully tighten it all back up. the following picture shows it all done up, but i am concerned that the rear washer still wiggles around, also the gap is also very obvious here too!  -

(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/dedc2519.jpg)

pop it all back together and the results -
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/d7162d9d.jpg)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/88c87917.jpg)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/cbb00437.jpg)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/robz88/65314663.jpg)

i am gonna take one off each side as i over did it a bit :D but the results are there to be seen, however i think i will opt for proper camber shims at the earliest opportunity! hth!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 14:33
Need a slightly thicker washer on the back bolt :) as you can see there it's quite a large amount of toe which will destroy your tyres in a few weeks / days :D Cheers for doing the rear brake version though :afro: looks easier because you haven't got a big daft drum to get your head under and try and holder washers in :D

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 15:49
lol, yeah, glad i dont have drums!!
im still not happy with it tbh, i just dont like the idea of no face contact!
but for experiment, its all good!
however that much camber is gonna be a little bit more when its on the floor, so a little bit silly really :D
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 16:04
lol, yeah, glad i dont have drums!!
im still not happy with it tbh, i just dont like the idea of no face contact!
but for experiment, its all good!
however that much camber is gonna be a little bit more when its on the floor, so a little bit silly really :D


Just 1 washer should be fine then? :)

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 16:10
well if i put one at the front it will leave me in the same position surely??
whereas for now until i get the shims ill put one under both, to make it stable and ill be happy!
have to say bud, even half a job rob worries about this bodge :D
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 16:16
1 washer is fine, will reduce toe and you can fully tighten both bolts :) if you put 1 washer on each side you will notice how much toe you will get, most people on edition are just using 1 washer, i understand what you mean with the rear washer hanging though, that will have a massive amount of stress on that bolt.

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 18:19
See what ya mean, but want even amount of pressure really, it ain't driving far so fuxk it lol
Shims will be alot better!!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: F17BAD on 09 February 2011, 19:45
its worth noting that when you put the drum back on (if you have drum brakes) that nut only needs to be finger tight - the one with the mole grips on it "Take the pin out and the cover off should have a large nut behind that, won't be too tight so just need to take that off"

It should just be tight enough to allow the washer behind it to be easily moved with a screw-driver.  If overtighted, the wheel bearing will overheat and you'll hit a tree.

James

Thanks for adding that :) mine was just slightly over finger tight so needed a slight tug with mole grips but didn't effect the movement of it, but yeah don't over tighten :D

Dan


Never mind the nut (sounds like yours was correct tightness) - you need a NEW, yes NEW cotter pin, this is the only thing that holds tho whole lot on, you should never re use the cotter pin, or whats left of it in your pic :shocked: :shocked:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 20:14
Currently in the process of replacing everything during the VR conversion, rest assured the drums are being replaced with rear discs so all new bearings / pins :) haven't driven the car in around 5 months and i snapped the pin when i resolved the issue i was having with toe so it has never been driven like this more then 20 metres.
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 20:27
so the next question is how much camber can these shim produce... ill skip over to the other thread now :D
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 20:35
so the next question is how much camber can these shim produce... ill skip over to the other thread now :D

Proper shims i believe are 3 degrees of negative camber, someone correct me if im wrong :)

Dan
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 20:38
nice!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: bored_Welsh_lad on 10 February 2011, 19:40
so the next question is how much camber can these shim produce... ill skip over to the other thread now :D

Proper shims i believe are 3 degrees of negative camber, someone correct me if im wrong :)

Dan

nope, i believe at max they are -1.5 degrees, you need 2 shims to get 3 degrees, although you can adjust toe at the same point too
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 10 February 2011, 19:45
Cheers Mate for clearing that up!!
Can't wait to purchase em!!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 10 February 2011, 20:22
so the next question is how much camber can these shim produce... ill skip over to the other thread now :D

Proper shims i believe are 3 degrees of negative camber, someone correct me if im wrong :)

Dan

nope, i believe at max they are -1.5 degrees, you need 2 shims to get 3 degrees, although you can adjust toe at the same point too

That's it, i thought it was 3 because my mate doubled them up :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Camber - The sh!t way.
Post by: Diamond Hell on 27 February 2011, 13:15
Obviously this is a modification that anyone doing is declaring to their insurers, right?

If you're not then you're running around with invalid insurance and frankly any insurer would be mad to insure a car with this modification as it's screwing all of the fitment of two out of four contact patches on the road.

I'm blown away that anyone would do such a stupid, dangerous modification, let alone publicise it on a forum.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 27 February 2011, 13:48
Took you a while to see this didn't it :D
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Gash on 27 February 2011, 14:00
Well i picked up shims for 12 quid so!
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 27 February 2011, 19:29
Show use only, i was asked how to do it and create a guide.
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Diamond Hell on 28 February 2011, 13:41
Took you a while to see this didn't it :D

Turns out my moron detector was on low-power.
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 28 February 2011, 16:49
I thought it beeped constantly  :tongue:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: Dmonday on 28 February 2011, 18:01
N'aww
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: lemski on 28 February 2011, 19:35
tbh who ever does it for the road its upto them to run it like that, like its up to us all when doing stuff to the car and altering from standard. i thought it was a good guide dan.
Title: Re: Camber - The sh!t way.
Post by: bored_Welsh_lad on 03 March 2011, 21:21
Obviously this is a modification that anyone doing is declaring to their insurers, right?

If you're not then you're running around with invalid insurance and frankly any insurer would be mad to insure a car with this modification as it's screwing all of the fitment of two out of four contact patches on the road.

I'm blown away that anyone would do such a stupid, dangerous modification, let alone publicise it on a forum.  :rolleyes:

So please tell what is so dangerous about these, apart from the fact that you can adjust the toe and camber of your car when lowered... So in fact you can correct geometry and make a car handle much better if you had 4 wheel alignment...
Title: Re: Camber - The sh!t way.
Post by: lemski on 04 March 2011, 07:10
Obviously this is a modification that anyone doing is declaring to their insurers, right?

If you're not then you're running around with invalid insurance and frankly any insurer would be mad to insure a car with this modification as it's screwing all of the fitment of two out of four contact patches on the road.

I'm blown away that anyone would do such a stupid, dangerous modification, let alone publicise it on a forum.  :rolleyes:

So please tell what is so dangerous about these, apart from the fact that you can adjust the toe and camber of your car when lowered... So in fact you can correct geometry and make a car handle much better if you had 4 wheel alignment...


LIKE
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: mksmk3gti on 05 March 2011, 20:07
A Good post, but never the less i dont think i would have much confidence when driving. I like to know my wheels and brakes are going to work at all times! ;)

Do proper shims do the same thing?? :huh:
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: robz on 05 March 2011, 22:16
yes but give a contact surface all over ;)
Title: Re: Camber - The cheap way.
Post by: tweed on 25 May 2011, 17:27
At the cost of £25 this is still cheap and not a expensive way to get camber  :wink:(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5256/5507008785_ef2f6d352a_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59145949@N03/5507008785/)
Photo0375 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/59145949@N03/5507008785/) by tweedub (http://www.flickr.com/people/59145949@N03/), on Flickr