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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: robz on 05 February 2011, 18:52

Title: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 18:52
probably one for danny, as i know your as pikey as me :D
how did you do your camber, looking at doing it myself, i understand re toe and allignment being out if not careful, but im not too bothered because the car doesnt go far so sod the tyres :D
how do ya use the washer trick? and what size/thickness washer did ya use?
just the two bottom bolts ya use them??
pros/cons?
cheers peeps!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 05 February 2011, 19:38
probably one for danny, as i know your as pikey as me :D
how did you do your camber, looking at doing it myself, i understand re toe and allignment being out if not careful, but im not too bothered because the car doesnt go far so sod the tyres :D
how do ya use the washer trick? and what size/thickness washer did ya use?
just the two bottom bolts ya use them??
pros/cons?
cheers peeps!

I love how this is aimed at me :D

I had issues with toe until a few weeks ago when i set it up correctly, i'll write a guide up tomorrow and take some pictures if i get chance :) a lot of people use this method over camber shims so can't be that bad ;)

Dan

Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 19:41
Cheers dude!
Would appreciate it!!
I need camber on these wheels!!
Look forward to it!!
You know your resident pikey lol
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Wayne on 05 February 2011, 20:16
 :shocked: washers for camber
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 20:25
Have heard it done quote alot Wayne, hence why I wanna know what the gig is :)
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Wayne on 05 February 2011, 20:26
Have heard it done quote alot Wayne, hence why I wanna know what the gig is :)

Still not the greatest idea in the world, at least with spacers you know it is correct, I would not be happy with washers.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 20:27
From what position Wayne? Safety?
Or tyre/suspension wear?
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Wayne on 05 February 2011, 20:34
From what position Wayne? Safety?
Or tyre/suspension wear?

Both but safety more.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 20:35
But surely if it's torqued and glued, then there wouldn't be any difference, or am
I missing something?
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Wayne on 05 February 2011, 20:36
But surely if it's torqued and glued, then there wouldn't be any difference, or am
I missing something?


Extra strain / stresses on the bolts
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 20:39
Ok... Hmm
Difficult! Would longer bolts/stronger bolts compensate??
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Wayne on 05 February 2011, 20:40
Ok... Hmm
Difficult! Would longer bolts/stronger bolts compensate??

Yes I guess so.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 20:45
Right, so if I do it I'll get some decent bolts from an appropriate trader, did the same for my arb bolts lol
Cheers for the advice though mate, don't want another wheel coming off lol
First time was bad enough!!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Wayne on 05 February 2011, 20:50
Right, so if I do it I'll get some decent bolts from an appropriate trader, did the same for my arb bolts lol
Cheers for the advice though mate, don't want another wheel coming off lol
First time was bad enough!!

Stronger bolts will help but you still stressing things more than normal.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 20:57
Fair enough!!
These ez shims are 25 quid roughly so may try the washers and then if I'm happy With the result Buy the shims!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Gash on 05 February 2011, 21:00
this could be handy for me too as when i put the wheels on in the week im not sure how the camber is going to be. if i can adjust it for a few days should be ok!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 21:03
I wanna get out there and do it now lol
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 05 February 2011, 22:29
Can't be that much stress, i drive my car quite hard and never had an issue even when i had a pretty stupid amount of camber! I know a lot of people who use this method & a sh!t load use it over on edition but i'm not suggesting you do this as i don't want to be responsible if you crash and burn to death :) stronger / longer bolts would be better but i couldn't be arsed with that so i'm running the standard bolts :)

Dan
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 22:31
lol!!
im up for trying it!
i just NEED camber now!
what thickness washer did ya use?
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Jack3559 on 05 February 2011, 22:51
A 1mm washer on the bottom right bolt gives -4 degrees of camber which is perfect for most.

Or you could do what the ONI camber guys in japan do and chuck a scaffolding pole in above the bolts for -45 degrees.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 23:04
A 1mm washer on the bottom right bolt gives -4 degrees of camber which is perfect for most.

Or you could do what the ONI camber guys in japan do and chuck a scaffolding pole in above the bolts for -45 degrees.

bottom right on n\s?
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Jack3559 on 05 February 2011, 23:10
Yeah, sorry! Should've cleared that up really...
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 23:14
then bottom left on o\s
ya only need to do one then!!!
what size are the standard bolts? m?
would nylon or steel washers be best?
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Jack3559 on 05 February 2011, 23:16
Steel for sure, M6 I think.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 23:19
cheers bud!!
thought steel but worth checking!
cant wait, front wheel going back on tomoz, back wheels coming off lol
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Jack3559 on 05 February 2011, 23:27
(http://www.snegidhi.com/2010/99-07-05/oni_camber_08.jpg)

Some inspiration!

 :wink:
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 23:35
lol!!!!
just bought some washers!
see how i go lol!!
i do love camber! mk3s with the right camber look sweet!!
not sure if m gonna ditch the mudguards now!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Jack3559 on 05 February 2011, 23:38
Straight mudguards and cambered wheels may look a bit odd...

Personally I'd get rid of them straight away to show the camber off as much as possible.

It's your car and your call at the end of the day... Whatever you think looks right!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 05 February 2011, 23:41
well ive been, in recent threads, very pro mudguards, but the more ive researched etc... your right lol, damn it!!
but can i keep the front ones with out the back....
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 10:01
I'm pretty sure the washers are M12 and i'm running 2 x 1.2mm(ish) washers and it's not that much camber
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 10:14
can you do a quick right up please dan! :D
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 10:22
Lol
Come on fan, your chance to get a sticky! Err... Don't be rude!
Nuts, bought m6 last night, but not arsed, wanna see th thickness more than anything!!
Put mine on stands this am ready to do it! Yay
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 10:30
Think i'm gonna stick another washer under mine anway so will go out and redo it in about 30 mins, still in bed :D

Dan
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 10:33
Lazy...... Lol
Been up since 8 lol
Pics would be awesome pal!!!
I'm gonna need alot of spacers after this lol
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: tweed on 06 February 2011, 15:39
Post some pics! I need camber on the rear!!! :laugh:!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 15:47
Got my washers lol
Cars up ready
Hopefully have a play Tuesday morning!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 18:01
so washers? what one can i use?
where do i put them!
il pick some up tomorrow and get it done when the advans are on this week!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 18:04
ive bought m12 2mm thick washers, but looking now on edition to see any guides
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 18:15
il see about getting those washers.
if you find a guide let me know. im watching the thread so will know.
just need a temp solution as i know if i get shims they wont be here in time for next weekend!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 18:24
yeah, im reading an interesting thread on edition re this -
http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=307583&hl=camber%20with%20washers&st=0

im gonna try this with washers, to make sure is what i want, then i will invest in the shims!!
what worries me is that the bolts will carry the weight as oppose to the face of the beam, so i think its ok as a trial, but i would worry using them daily!!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 19:00
well the read does seem for them to be ok.
think i will just use one washer on each for the moment, not to get stupid amounts. iv got a fair amount of toe in too :( not good!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 19:09
and on the FRONT bolt, not the back apparently!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 19:47
and on the FRONT bolt, not the back apparently!

Yeah front and not rear i'll get pics up now and write a quick guide but if you do two washers on front put one on the rear reduces toe either way :)

Dan
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 19:52
perfect dan!!
will look forward to the pics and guide!
where can i get new brake caliper bolts - the hex ones, or does anyone have a link or part number for one? need new as mine are all knackered!
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 06 February 2011, 20:27
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=181607.0
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Gash on 06 February 2011, 20:36
probably good toget original vw ones. prob only cost a few pound
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 06 February 2011, 20:38
Need to get to a stealers then lol
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 07 February 2011, 14:37
Im in two minds about this whole washer spacing set up, as mentioned in that ED38 thread you'd be putting extra unnecessary stresses on the hub bolts due to creating a space between the stub axle and rear beam. Admittedly if only using a small washer on one of the bolts then i doubt it would be significant increase but im still unsure as to whether id be comfortable with knowing something as important as the strength of my rear suspension had been jeopardised.
I reckon if camber is needed then shims is definitely the way to go as you'd alleviate the stresses over a larger contact surface rather than simply across the adjoining bolts.
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 07 February 2011, 16:18
Totally agree, if i could afford camber shims i would get them for sure :) but i would have to double them up on each side to get roughly what camber i'm after and can't really justify spending that much when mine seem to be working fine so far, i will eat my words though when my rear axle does snap off :D

Dan
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 07 February 2011, 17:23
Yup!
Is it 20 quid each, not for a pair!!
Well I'm gonna take pics and do an addition to dans guide for disc models!!
Gonna have fun getting the caliper bolts off :(
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: lew666 on 09 February 2011, 13:08
lol half a job rob. shouldnt have asked my sister to marry you then you wouldnt have to pay for a wedding and you could buy shims and do it properly. could always blame my sister when your wheels fall off going over a speed bump.  :tongue:
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Paul86S2 on 09 February 2011, 15:34
I like the idea of cheap home solutions for repairing and modifying cars, but you cannot put a price on yours and other peoples safety. Safety must always be the main concern when working on or modifying your car.
I have no problem with you taking risks with your own safety thats just your choice.
If you have a bad accident and someone gets killed or seriously injured your car will be thoroughly checked over. I would imagine your insurance will wriggle out of paying anything to anyone if they find this kind of thing on your car whether it led to the accident or not. I would also imagine that if the accident wasn't your fault and they find this on your car the other insurance company won't pay up either because you are driving an unsafe modified car.
This then leads to you being out of pocket for your car and injuries, liable to prosecution, and liable to be personally sued by the other parties for a serious amount of money. This doesn't take into count the emotional suffering you will cause yourself if it turns out to be your fault or the emotional suffering you will cause to others.
Just because lots of others have done it doesn't make it safe or alright.

Killjoy moment over.

Paul
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 15:47
i do agreee mate tbh!
im using this purely as an experiment foir how much i want! i dont like the idea of the stub axle face being away and hanging off the bolts, i will make it aware now my car is sorn, so isnt on the rd ;)
plus i need to replace my caliper bolts etc so is purely an experiment whilst its in bits!!
camber shims will be used on the rd!
(plus ive had a wheel come off - previous o had cross threaded the hub, nice one - and that wasnt pleasent!)
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: Dmonday on 09 February 2011, 16:14
At no point did we say to use it on public road, for all i know robz has a trailer queen with no engine? Just giving advice for modifying his show / non-road car, if people want to use this method on the road (like the hundreds of other people that never had an issue) then that's their choice, warning will be added to the OP.

Dan
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: forsh on 09 February 2011, 16:57
whats the difference using a washer or a camber shim

ive got a engineer at work who could make them shims easly,hes a genuis with metal,and we got all the tools there,lathes,mills,press's and the rest of the stuff in a metal workshop


does anyone have a picture of some shims and the dimensions etc,i could start banging them out at half the price
Title: Re: camber question.... one for dmonday....? using washers...
Post by: robz on 09 February 2011, 17:55
Washer leaves a non contact surface, whereas a shim won't!!