GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: Adamdubz on 05 January 2011, 14:37
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can you do this ? :smiley:
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Yes
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good times
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dont get it dont by your mate dave for £20 though.
the only banded alloy's i have seen have been on race cars where the track surface is far better than a uk road. they are probably checked before each outing too
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dw i wont i just wanted to no if it could be done duno where can do it round where i am tho
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Don't think you can band alloys, steel yes but not alloys.
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Don't think you can band alloys, steel yes but not alloys.
i have seen it done on some 911 race cars
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Don't think you can band alloys, steel yes but not alloys.
quik search :nerd:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=123599.0 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=123599.0)
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Alloy's can be welded. But you need a pro to do it and depending on the finish and where the join is it can be visible such as when polished or anodised. If you're having them powder coated then fine.
Probably not advisable on cheapo alloys as the material might not be stable/suitable for welding.
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i have seen it done on some 911 race cars
Yup, I've just recently sold a set, they were 15x6 banded to 15x8. But the Fuch alloy wheel design lends itself to this and they're high quality forged items to start with so stand a bit of welding.
Also if you watch American Hotrod from time to time they have a machine that does it. A bit like a tyre fitting machine that rotates the wheel and the welding tip is secured at a fixed point and welds as the wheel turns.
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dought you'd see banded alloys on a race car, they may well use split rims and make a custom extra wide section tho.
if i was going to do it id want a forged wheel, cut and v it on a lathe do the same for the infill section, it'd stay on the lath for welding
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These are race application welded Fuch alloys. They use the original centres and then weld them to a wider rim, so not necessarily banded but still welded.
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/P2.html
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Madness. :smiley:
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Loads of OEM alloy wheels are welded. Cast spokes and rolled rims welded together. Millions of these have been made and are safely in use all over the world.
Toyota did some using friction welding ("teardrop" mk1 MR2 wheels I think).
So yes, you can weld alloy wheels, and you can weld to castings.
But you need the process to be tightly controlled, which OEM guys can do, and fred-in-a-shed can't. So if you are getting alloys banded ask them how they inspect them for defects afterwards. I'd want x-rays or something.
Here is a few pics of some old skool ford alloys being banded from where i learnt how to refurb alloys, they had 2.5" extra added to them :grin:
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae146/peej1981/banded3.jpg)
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae146/peej1981/nabded2.jpg)
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae146/peej1981/Banded.jpg)
Just for fun, a z3 with banded alloys :grin: :grin:
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae146/peej1981/BMWZ3.jpg)
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you can weld any metal with the skills and the kit. just cast anythign is usally more of a pita that the same stuff in uncast form.
as for fred in the shed, if i have anythign i don't want to weld i use a man in a shed outfit and he dose flawless welding. it's not the outfit or the size of said outfit it's about the skills of the guy thats holding the torch and the machene the torch is connected to that matters Not the name on the invoice.
Ive had holes that have been punched in cylinder heads tiged up before and in one case even the hole in the piston that was made by the valve head. compared to those parts wheels arnt very stressed
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I understand what you are saying but what my point is that you might be able to find a sh*t hot guy in a shed to do it but how do they test that the wheel has no defects after? At the end of the day you are trusting someone to do this and the last thing you want is the wheel to crack or worse crack completly whilst driving.
How would you test for defects in the wheel after? Like i said it is possible and it has been done millions of times and people have been rolling around on the rims for years and years just think best to check that after the work is done that the wheel is absolute perfect :smiley:
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I understand what you are saying but what my point is that you might be able to find a sh*t hot guy in a shed to do it but how do they test that the wheel has no defects after? At the end of the day you are trusting someone to do this and the last thing you want is the wheel to crack or worse crack completly whilst driving.
How would you test for defects in the wheel after? Like i said it is possible and it has been done millions of times and people have been rolling around on the rims for years and years just think best to check that after the work is done that the wheel is absolute perfect :smiley:
they would need to be x-rayed as you said a couple of posts above
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Xrayed. I would roll round on em if potholes wernt all over the place.
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Personaly i don't see the point in Xraying the weld on a banded alloy it's way OTT
where wheels fail is around the spokes ether hub end or rim end. the actual rim itself is very strong compared to the spokes when you consider the way the loads are being placed on it.
if the guy that welded it was crap at welding it wouldn't stay up due to weld porisity issues, if the weld isn't porus and has full pentitarion it will more the sufficently strong
the edges of the rim however are quite highly stressed and ofer potential for catostropic fail but there not welding there.
if getting keen and wanting to check the weld a dye and developer would be more than sufficent
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Personaly i don't see the point in Xraying the weld on a banded alloy it's way OTT
if getting keen and wanting to check the weld a dye and developer would be more than sufficent
In what way is it OTT? Its standard industry practice for safety critical items like this. Crack detector penetrant dies tell you nothing about the depth of the weld penetration or the inclusion of voids/ impurities that will lead to weld failure/internal crack development due to high frequency cyclical loading on a part such as a wheel. Nor will they tell you anything about the condition of the materials in the heat affected zone. If it wasnt such a safety critical area then I would agree with you but I for one dissagree with the safety of welding aluminium road wheels or motorsports wheels without testing them properly afterwards.
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just get em crack detected most engineering work shops have crack detecting apparatus.. i use to do it at my old work day in day out and we were welding alloy products for the military..
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look at the amount of metal look at the forces involed. teh weld isn't going to be getting much greif and very very very unlikey to fail in a catostrophic manner. alloy wheel fails due to strain and fatigue are nearly allways spoke related, if welding centers in to a rim much more thought and testing would be done, fails of the actual rim itself are inpact related.
also wheels give you a hell of a warning if they have damage to the rim itslef, they go FLAT