GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: gold racing on 13 February 2005, 19:19
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Hey guys,
My 97 P-reg golf gti 8v only revs to 5000rpm where it hits a rev limiter. It has occasionally (about once a month!) gone to about 6250rpm which is what i think the red-line should be but then after turning the car off and back on again it went back to 5000. I've lived with this for a while but is starting to do my head in!
I was wondering if the car was only revving to that because of some kind of faulty sensor putting the car in some sort of fail safe, get you home type mode.
Anybody got any idea what might be wrong with it????
Any help or advise would be much appreciated!? :smiley:
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Sounds like a dodgy sensor or maybe your rev counter is not accurate
All I can suggest really
Paul
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The rev counter seems ok, Its definately not revving, can tell by the sound!
Not sure what sensor might cause such a fault.
cheers
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best way is to have it put on computer at main dealers then that way you Will know & then you can go & get the bit & put it on. Ain't worth keep trying bits cos that way you will soon be paying out more than just having it diagnosed at dealers.
Hope this helps as I have learned this by my own mistake & wasted hundreds
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I'll tell you exactly what this is -
It's your engine timing! Problem is that you can't do it yourself, you need to go to a main dealer!
Do yourself a favour and squirt some WD40 down the base of your distributor as they WILL need to move it and they DO sieze into the engine and are very hard to free!
Then book yourself in at your local VW centre and get them to set the 'base ignition timing' and clear the faults from the memories.
This shouldn't cost you very much as it should only take between 15 and 30 mins.
Let me know how you get on!
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Not neccesarily timing I would have thought.
One thing to try, sorted the probs for me is to clean up the hotwires on the cars MAF. Mine were clogged up and since cleaning them with a cotton bud and a drop of petrol the car is sweet as a nut!!
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The only thing i can think of is possibly the engine speed sensor, as this is what the ECU should use for the cut off.
It won't be timing, when the timing is out, the engine will lack in power, but will still reach the redline.
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i know on a mk2 16v the fuel replay can stop the car reving.
try changing that
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Sorry to contradict what everyone else is saying but please read my last post as i really do know this problem inside out!!!
I own the very same car, I work for AUDI and i have had the EXACT same problem which was rectified in this way!
so trust me! i know what i'm talking about.
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my cab wouldnt rev over 5.5k, changed the fuel reply...jobs a good un :grin:
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Sorry to contradict what everyone else is saying but please read my last post as i really do know this problem inside out!!!
I own the very same car, I work for AUDI and i have had the EXACT same problem which was rectified in this way!
so trust me! i know what i'm talking about.
Yeah of course you do mate :laugh:
I very much doubt it is timing.
So why can't you set static timing yourself? its not exactly a main dealer only job now is it? :wink:
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I have to agree I cant see how timing would cause this prob. Try cleaning up your MAF it is a 5 min job and worth a go as it costs nowt!
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The only way that i could see timing being an issue is the engine not been able to reach the red line in top gear, as in it can't make enough torque/power as the timing is out.
I assume that the car is doing it in every gear, so its got to be a problem with the rev limiter.
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Can you rev it over 5000rpm when its in neutral ??
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The reason that you cannot set the base ignotion timing yourself is because the ignition timing is constantly being retarded and advanced by the engine control unit. The timing is retarded until pinking is sensed by the knock sensor, then it is advanced by 3 degrees again. then the process starts again! - therefore, if you put a timing light on, you will never see a true reading for the ignition timing!!!!!!
To set the base ignition timing, the engine control unit needs to be in 'Basic settings mode' which needs to be done by VAG diagnostic tools 5051/5052.
Now this is the clever bit! - If the base ignition timing is wrong, and the engine is pinking, the knock sensor will sense this and limit the maximum engine revs to 5000 rpm to save damage to engine!
To have the timing set on a VAG diagnostic tester is the quickest, cheapest and easiest thing to do first.
Now, the only other thing that would cause these symptoms - in my experience is the Hall Effect Sensor, which is housed in the distributor, although if this is faulty, you may as well change the whole distributor, as it will cost you more in labour charges to strip the disi and replace the sensor!
Any questions?
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Intresting reading guys hope we find out the problem on this one :)
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sorry for your problems goldracing, but this is very interesting, hope you find a solution soon, please let us all know how it goes
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The reason that you cannot set the base ignotion timing yourself is because the ignition timing is constantly being retarded and advanced by the engine control unit. The timing is retarded until pinking is sensed by the knock sensor, then it is advanced by 3 degrees again. then the process starts again! - therefore, if you put a timing light on, you will never see a true reading for the ignition timing!!!!!!
To set the base ignition timing, the engine control unit needs to be in 'Basic settings mode' which needs to be done by VAG diagnostic tools 5051/5052.
Now this is the clever bit! - If the base ignition timing is wrong, and the engine is pinking, the knock sensor will sense this and limit the maximum engine revs to 5000 rpm to save damage to engine!
To have the timing set on a VAG diagnostic tester is the quickest, cheapest and easiest thing to do first.
Now, the only other thing that would cause these symptoms - in my experience is the Hall Effect Sensor, which is housed in the distributor, although if this is faulty, you may as well change the whole distributor, as it will cost you more in labour charges to strip the disi and replace the sensor!
Any questions?
Sorry mate, but that is total total crap.
Anyone can set the static timing on these engines.
Lets make it simple for you.
There will be a TDC mark on the crank,cam, and intermediate shaft.
When all these marks are aligned, the engine IS AT TDC, this is called STATIC IGNITION TIMING.
Alternatively the crank and cam can be set to TDC, and then the distributor can be set to TDC.
A timing gun is not generally needed on these engines as the ECU will adjust it automatically to suit.
All that is generally required is the STATIC timing is set correctly.
But if you want to be fussy, i can always dig out the workshop procedure for the job, i can assure you, you don't need VAG special equipment to do it.
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spot on, i will look on for further enjoyment
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OK!
So maybe there is another way to set the static timing - i may stand corrected on that point.
But the fact is that the base ignition timing CAN affect the redline as i have stated, and if you want to go into a VAG dealer and ask a master technician, i am sure you will get the same response!
I haven't just plucked this info from thin air - I had the same prob with my 98 8V and researched it in depth!!! so i DO no what i'm talking about,
and i think i mentioned that i do work for audi, and the VW dealership is NEXT DOOR!
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Timing may well be the issue here , whether or not you can do it yourself definatly seems to be an issue !!!
Y has no one suggested to this poor fellow to get the problem codes read from his ECU ? If as has been suggested that the engine is running in 'safe' mode surely the ECU fault codes will indicate this ?
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Just a few things again to add.
The ECU does not continually adjust ignition timing at idle, and this is when a timing gun is used.
The ECU will adjust the ignition timing according to engine speed and load.
If you guys are convinced that timing is a problem, which i am still very much doubtful, then check the static timing, it is easy enough to do.
Something i think that is worth checking is the knock sensors, if one is loose then the ECU will retard the timing which could cause a problem.
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adyh - that is a very good point
But just another point to note is that if there is a problem with timing it may not post a fault that can be read as this.
It will almost definitely post a fault on the hall effect sensor as mentioned, but once the timing is set, it should correct this - if it doesn't, then it will need a hall sender.
VR6 - my point here is not HOW you set the ignition timing, but that it COULD be the fault that is causing his problems! and i was merely suggesting that this would be the first thing to try as it is the easiest and cheapest to rectify! Just passing on some well earned knowledge and didn't really want to argue about it. I'm just trying to help the guy!
Let me know how you go anyway!
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ive got the same problem cant rev over 5000 rpm 97 R reg 2.0 gti "starfishcracker" is right i put mine on a diagnostic machine today (doesnt have to be main dealer) and it come up with "hall sensor signal outside tolerances error occurs intermittant" it is down to the distributor im not sure if you definatly have to have it set up by vw but ive ordered a new distributor ?95 + vat and im going to try that hopefully it should work