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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Simeon on 27 November 2010, 23:57
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Currently trying to sort the loom for an abf swap but wiring is not a strong point so please bear with me as I ask the same old questions - I have had a search by the way, but no-one has any pics or anything and I can't work out wiring diagrams at all. Big thanks to Rubjonny though for the fusebox faq, been very helpful.
Right, mk2 is a 1991 16v; bought a complete mk3 16v on P plate (1996) to do the swap. As it was a late mk3 the lighting loom and engine loom were together so have been removing all the lighting loom. I want to use the mk2 coil set up.
So far have removed from the mk2 engine loom to fit to abf loom;
Outside air temp
Wipers
Reversing light
Just the coil set up to go ... first problem, which wires do I need ..?.. I get confused because there seems to be a lot wired together although I understand it needs to be wired same as a mk2 digi (which is no help as this is obviously wired as a mk2 k-jet :undecided: ) On photo;
1 - TCI plug; 4 wires, earth, brown/blue to ecu plug, green to coil plug and black to side of coil (No. 6)
2 - Ecu, one brown/blue from tci above and black/white to side of coil (No. 6)
3 - Idle switch on throttle body; Wired into G1 pin 4 along with black wire to top of coil (No. 5)
4 - Coil plug; Green to TCI, two red/black wires -> one to G1 pin 12 and the other to a 6pin plug .. to clocks? rev counter?
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/CoilLoom.jpg)
This is the 6pin plug with the red/black wire that doesn't go to fusebox;
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/DSC00369.jpg)
Finally, on the mk3 loom I have three wires that come from the ecu and go to two plugs which I think are something to do with the carbon canister. These are the two plugs;
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/DSC00366.jpg)
One is brown/blue and white/yellow
The other is green/yellow and black/white - the black/white goes into G2 pin 4 along with two other wires
Also have a random purple/white wire that goes from the ecu plug to a 3pin plug, of which the other two wires are black/white to A1 pin 2 and black/green A2 pin 4 .. indicators? Why a wire to ecu?
All help gratefully received :smiley: preferably in 'stupid speak' :laugh:
Cheers
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do a search for abf wiring and look through my thread its 5 pages and all the answers you need are on there. its a while since i did it but it was something like an earth and one of the cables from the mk3 coil loom spliced into the tci loom
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Cheers mate, I have read your thread, I just wanted some clarification really especially on the wires coming from the mk3 ecu
Also, what is the 'tci loom'? The wires coming from the tci plug go all over the place
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I keep the mk2 outside temp wires as they're the right length to ereach stock location, mk3 too short as its on driver side of car. should be alright to find somewhere to put mk3 sensor on driver side tho, its your call. you deffo need the mk2 wiper wires though, the mk3 ones are way too short to reach!
1. keep all the wires to the tci plug, connect this to the car as it was before. chop old ecu wire to tci pin 6 and splice this to the red/green wire on the MK3 coil. brown wire to mk3 coil no longer needed chop out and bin. black wire connect to +ve side of coil. but what i do is keep the MK2 golf coil wires, and chop out the mk3 coil wires.
2. chop the wire to tci and keep the black wire to the TCI-H unit as above, remove the old ecu black/white wire from the coil plug.
3. not required
4. keep all the wires as std, just chop out the 2nd red/black wire to the spade as this is for the old tci-h unit. black wire is ign live feed to coil, red/black is rev counter feed for dash. mk3 rev counter comes from ecu, but wont work mk2 dash. pop mk3 rev counter wire out and pop mk2 one back in :)
6 pin plug is mk2 isv control unit, you dont need this
last 2 plugs are carbon canister valve, and inlet air temp. dont need the carbon canister valve, bin. its the one with green/yellow and black/white wires. follow the wiring for it back and chop out.
wire to ecu is for the MK3 MFA MPG gauge, it gets signal from ecu rather than from vacuum pipe
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Thank you very much for that info John, very helpful. Got a couple of follow up questions;
In point 1 in your reply you say you keep the mk2 wires and chop out the mk3 ones. I presume by this you mean the remaining black wire in the mk3 coil plug (brown one chopped out and red/green spliced to pin 6 of tci plug)? It goes to G1 pin 4 the same as the mk2 one .. but there is also a black wire spliced in with it that goes to a 3pin plug on the engine .. annoyingly unlabelled on my loom. Should I just chop off the mk3 coil plug and splice on the single pin connector for the mk2 coil?
In point 4 in your reply; You say chop out the spare red/black wire .. this is the one that goes to the 6pin plug that you say is for isv control unit right? The other red/black wire that goes to G1 pin 12 is for the rev counter right?
The purple/white wire that you say is for the mk3 mfa mpg can be chopped out right? Presume you can hook up the vacuum pipe from the mk2 to work that function?
I also have two other plugs that I can't identify; One is single pin with a plain blue wire (labelled 'to alternator' on my loom) which goes to plug F pin 4. The other is a two pin plug (labelled 'gearbox') which has a black/red to F pin 5 and a black/blue to F pin 8. I thought this was mk3 reversing plugs and was just going to swap in the mk2 wires, but in this case where I would be putting the black/blue to F pin 7 I have a brown wire on the mk3 plug and where I would be putting the black/red wire to F pin 6 I have a red wire on mk3 plug...? confused
What is the block that is located under the header tank on mk3? I have a brown/black wire from the plug off this to a temp sensor that is screwed into the inlet manifold - presume this is for fan run on? What do I do with this wire as would like to maintain this function.
Finally, can I just remove the brown and black wires to two pin plug that goes to a blank in the inlet pipe .. believe this is something for cars with a/c (which mine didn't have).
All advice gratefully received.
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with the coil wires you can either use the mk2 wires, or the mk3 wires. its totally your call :)
you'll find that the mk3 plugs and the mk2 plugs both have the same pins in use, so if you fit the mk2 coil wire you'll need to splice the mk3 wire to it. this is because the wire on the mk3 plug also does a few different bits on the mk3 loom, isv, ecu, etc. mk2 just does the coil. I use the MK2 wire because its chunkier, though the mk3 wire will probably be ok.
if you use the MK2 coil wire, follow the mk3 black wire back till you find where it comes from, and chop it out. on the mk3 you'll see there is a joiny piece where several black wires all come together, you'll know what i mean when you see it. if you use the mk3 wire, simply crimp a spade on there and pop it onto the mk2 coil :)
on the mk2 coil plug, you'll see there is a short length of red/black wire with a spade on poking out the back, this you can chop off as its only needed for the 16v isv controller. you could just leave it on but unplugged if you like! the main red/black wire which runs to the fusebox is the rev counter wire yeah, you need to keep this. the mk3 loom will have a wire to this pin too, this is from the mk3 ecu and is not compatible with the mk2 clocks, so chop it out.
aye you chop out the purple wire, and just leave the vac hose connected up to the clocks as per std mk2 16v.
The blue wire is the alternator charge wire, but its to F/3 ;) the reason you're confuse is because on the mk2 the alternator wire is in the lighting loom, you'll see it neat to the battery +ve. on the mk3 this is moved to the engine loom, so in effect you now have 2 alternator wires! you can use either one. i use the mk3 one cos its neater, plus it uses much better waterproof connectors so no more corrosion damage. the other plug is the reverse light switch :)
F/1 is a red wire, this is a starter motor live which is required for the MK3 ECU, so I think you might have got that one confused as well? F/4 is an earth, on the MK3 its for the speedo sensor. Reverse lights are to F/6 and F/7
the big connector block under the header tank is the radiator fan control unit, i bin this altogether and keep the mk2 fan wiring. the single pin sensor you mention is the after-run switch aye, i leave it disconnected.
this last plug is for a breather heater, which isnt fitted in the uk. follow the wires back from it and chop it out :)
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Thanks very much, I'll have a look at it when I get back from work :)
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Right, sorted :) (I hope) despite getting all those pins in plug F wrong :laugh: not sure how I managed that one. Thanks very much John, great advice/guidance as always.
Just the immobiliser to sort now :undecided:
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if you get all the loom for it dead easy to wire in, needs ign live, earth and a connection to ecu and diagnostic port. plugs will onlg go in the right place so those 2 cant mix up either. main thing is to get a matched immob unit + key/chip. once you have that can match any ecu to it using vag-com :)
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I bought the whole car so got all the matched bits. Haven't really looked at it yet, but when I glanced through the wires I thought there wasn't much that matched up to the loom .. will have a closer look later, trying to get the 'bay side sorted first so I can get the engine in :)
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Bah, I hate wiring! I've shamelessly robbed your pic from clubgti John..
I've got everything in this pic except the black box at the back with the white plug in it .. where abouts do I find this in the donor car? Do I need anything else? One wire plugs into a wire that runs to the ecu (grey/white with brown plug) but I thought I read that there should be two wires to the ecu? I also notice you say that the power comes from the green plug .. presume I can just pop the pin out and pop it into the green plug on the mk2 loom? Thanks in advance (again) :)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/diagnostics2.jpg)
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Don't quote me on it but i think that black box can be found just behind the battery near the coolant bottle on the Mk3.
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I won't quote you mate as it's located on top of the fusebox :wink: thanks for the suggestion anyway.
I now have it wired as per the picture above. I understand that the diagnostics (plug on the left of pic) needs permanent live (red/white wire) and earth (brown wire), so only the black wire that goes to the green plug that I'm not sure what to do with?
Cheers
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black wire is an ignition live feed, green plug is the one for the brake light switch. the ign live feed though actually comes from the jumper blocks on top of the mk3 column area, the wire from the jumper block runs down to the green plug pin and the wire from the immob unit is also spliced to the same pin.
hope that makes sense!
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Cheers for that John. So is it best to get this jumper block off the mk3 or is there another pin on the mk2 that I can easily lift an ignition live from? Also, can you tell me what these are meant to go to \/ Blue plug is from the engine loom and the red plug is from the lighting loom. My mate removed the looms so I didn't see where they were unplugged from :( Thanks for any help
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/DSC00397.jpg)
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its up to you really, i have lots of poncy extras on mine so the jumper blocks from the mk3 made my life much easier. but on your car look at plug D and you should have a spare black wire hanging out of pin 9 or pin 11, either of these are fine to splice into :)
2 plugs are headlight range adjust motors and speedo output for ecu, neither are required :)
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Thanks very much, you're a lifesaver
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And after all that ...... it doesn't start :( Well, it did start, briefly. Ran for about 5 seconds, revs tailed off and it died and now it won't restart. It fires one cylinder every now and then but that's about it. Immobiliser is wired as per pic above, ecu relay is fitted, fuel pump primes, every thing is plugged in, spare vacuum ports on throttle body are blanked off, only thing not plugged in is the lambda (struggling to fit the miltek decat - so much for buying quality so I didn't have to mess about with it :rolleyes: ) but can't imagine this would have any effect.
Any ideas/obvious things I haven't thought of?
Cheers
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Still sounds suspiciously like the immobilser... double check the wiring to the transponder box and the transponder ring around the barrel, and if all is good put the key into the ignition, and leave on ignition live for about 10 minutes without starting.
This should reset the immobiliser, and hopefully it will start!
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if it was immob it would fire up every time no bother then cut out. sounds liek crank sensor or isv problem. does it fire if you hold the throttle open?
dunno why you're struggling with the miltek mine went on like a glove?
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No, holding throttle open has no effect. I'm thinking it might be fuel starvation .. weirdly, it fires up for a second or two the first time I try and start it after leaving it overnight (or similar time), but then returns to it's single cylinder firing every now and then. Only other thing I've done is extend the ecu loom so that I can locate the ecu in the standard location for the mk2, but all joints were soldered and wrapped so should be ok.
The miltek doesn't slide inside the 2.25" exhaust fitted to the car and it is supplied with 10mm bolts that don't fit through the holes in the downpipe nor through the standard gasket .. it's clearly not been designed to be a simple cat replacement pipe and I certainly won't be buying one for my G60 conversion. Wish I'd bought a cheapo hottuning one now.
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hmm i didnt get any bolts with mine i used new oem vw ones which are M8. the slidy thing is more likely to be your exhaust rather than the miltek.
did you get the short extension piece which goes between the exhaust and the cat bypass? you might need one of those double coupler things for yours I guess... mine i just used the extender piece and my jetex fitted straight on like a glove
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Extender piece makes it too long, have had to cut down the decat by just over an inch already. Anyway, will get some m8 bolts and hammer it on tonight :)
So, before I call in help is there anything I can check easily or is stuff like crank sensor just replace and hope it works?
Cheers
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dunno then chap i cant explain why it aint fitting! what exhaust are you using?
is the main pump definitly working? in an ideal world get vag-com plugged in and see what the ecu says plus you can go thru the measuring blocks to see what all the sensor readings are.
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Good point, forgot about vagcom .. not used to such modern engines :grin: Will try and get someone to check it for me. Thanks for all the help and advice.
Oh, re the fuel pump, I can hear it prime when I turn the key, but it doesn't always do it; after spinning the engine over a few times if I turn the ignition off then back on again it doesn't prime every time. Is that normal or perhaps an indication that the fuel is not being supplied properly? The fact it has started suggests that the wiring is correct and as you say, the immobiliser won't stop it starting, so I'm thinking it must be fuel :undecided:
Edit; the exhaust will fit in the end I'm sure, just wasn't expecting to have to fiddle with it so much that's all.
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this is normal, the ecu is pretty clever about managing the priming :)
do you hear the pump running as the engine is turning over? if not this could be down to a dead crank sensor.
next step i would do is pull the plug off the under car pump then try again, check to see if you can hear the in-tank pump prime.
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In tank pump should be ok, the car ran fine before I pulled the kr lump out, but will double check. Not sure about the pump running when the engine is turning over, exhaust isn't connected so hard to hear much :grin: Will check that too. Thanks for the suggestions.
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And ... sorted :)
In case you've done a search and have a similar problem I suggest you check your timing marks and presume the previous owner to be an idiot.
Thanks again John for all the help and advice
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Finally finished this conversion today, my mate has now collected it and driven it 150 miles home and all seems well apart from it takes a while to return to idle .. drops to a about 2k revs then stays there briefly then slowly drops to 800rpm. Believe this is likely to be the ecu water temp sender ? so will get that changed soon :)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/Alexs%20Golf/IMG_6941.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/Alexs%20Golf/IMG_6945.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/howardlinn/Alexs%20Golf/IMG_6944.jpg)
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Hi Sim and Rubjohnny,
Im still trying to sort my rev counter.I fixed the mk3 clocks,revs work.I have joined all the wires in and spliced up till the fuse box.Now im not sure about the TCI(which part is that).Also the 6 pin plug,im not sure if its in.I did it with the help of the mechanic.
Feels very light,it starts and runs normally.But noe revs.You say the wires from mk3 green and red join in with mk2 black/red wire.Am I right?Please guide me.Earlier I had an ABF engine using my old digi 2 system.Now im on a Digi 3.2 I think from a 1994 LHD car.The exhaust manifold seem diff as with the inlet rubber bellow.Seems thicker than the RHD ones.
Any help will be very much appreciated.Thanks mate...
Best regards
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so are you using mk2 or mk3 clocks?
if mk2, you have 2 options.
1. chop the mk2 coil plug off, remove the brown wire entirely. then either fit the black wire to the coil +ve, or remove it entirely and swap over the mk2 coil live wires. i do this as the mk2 coil wires are a bit thicker than the mk3, though tbh mk3 wires probably fine. next you run the coil -ve wire to the fusebox/clocks, and fit the mk2 tci unit and loom as per factopry. splice the mk3 red/green wire to pin 6 of the tci and job done. if the tci loom was from carb/k-jet 8v, then the other 2 wires to the dizzy are no longer used and can be binned.
2. open the mk3 coil and run your rev counter wire from the -ve side to your dash/fusebox.
I prefer option 1 as the MK3 coils are sh!te