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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: delirical on 07 October 2010, 13:46
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Hi,
My mk2 g60 is bugging me.
I think the co pot is faulty as it only reads up to 170 ohms and wont go higher, time to replace?
I have checked the vacuum hoses, changed the dizzy and arm, new plugs, cleaned out the ISV but it is still not running properly.
When getting warm it starts hunting and cant hold idle, it wants to die and trys to misfire.
Please help!
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please help him!
ive been playing with it all week and starting to dislike the g60 engine :embarassed: :embarassed:
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cleaning the ISV is like cleaning a broken turd its still a broken turd but clean?
Co pot you can adjust it by the way :wink:
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ahh ok, how can you adjust it? it works as you can feel it buzzing with the ignition on.
Im really stuck mate, the g60 doesnt have a lambda plugged in either so this could be part of the issue?
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I need to buy a lambda and wiring for the g60 would this do the trick?
http://www.lambdasensor.com/main/bosch/price.pl?item=0258003973
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Jeez you know nothing about the digi G60 :laugh:
Its ok I didn't either five years ago :grin:
Ok the co pot has a white cap need to peel that back it has a flat head screw adjust according to ohms.
Ok you mean the ISV buzzing right? Well it can buzz as much as it likes if the valve doesn't open and close properly it Fooked.
I would clamp all the pipes off it and see if it makes a difference in idle!
Or unplug it when hot the revs should drop a tad. Let me know what happened?
Lambda ok now your giving me some good info!
The ECU can default one signal ONLY so if your Co pot is fooked and you have a missing Lambda signal the ECU will default only one value and that poor G60 will run like poo!
So you need to check on the downpipe if you have a Lambda already there or at least a boss nut where it should be? The plug can be wired right behind the water expansion tank its there just look and trace a missing plug or the existing wire to the down pipes orignal Lambda!
I would only buy Bosch one as I have gone through two after market ones and the quality is just poo!
Lambda on a g60 will be either three pin or two pin but if you have two pin don't worry you can bridge two white cables togther its the ground some run three wire but an extra white wire can be mated!
Hope that helps you need to read up certain articles I'll upload some stuff for you to read the files are too big for email.
Your welcome :nerd:
Jay
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Jeez you know nothing about the digi G60 :laugh:
Its ok I didn't either five years ago :grin:
Ok the co pot has a white cap need to peel that back it has a flat head screw adjust according to ohms.
Ok you mean the ISV buzzing right? Well it can buzz as much as it likes if the valve doesn't open and close properly it Fooked.
I would clamp all the pipes off it and see if it makes a difference in idle!
Or unplug it when hot the revs should drop a tad. Let me know what happened?
Lambda ok now your giving me some good info!
The ECU can default one signal ONLY so if your Co pot is fooked and you have a missing Lambda signal the ECU will default only one value and that poor G60 will run like poo!
So you need to check on the downpipe if you have a Lambda already there or at least a boss nut where it should be? The plug can be wired right behind the water expansion tank its there just look and trace a missing plug or the existing wire to the down pipes orignal Lambda!
I would only buy Bosch one as I have gone through two after market ones and the quality is just poo!
Lambda on a g60 will be either three pin or two pin but if you have two pin don't worry you can bridge two white cables togther its the ground some run three wire but an extra white wire can be mated!
Hope that helps you need to read up certain articles I'll upload some stuff for you to read the files are too big for email.
Your welcome :nerd:
Jay
Thanks for helping mate! I've tried adjusting the co pot and it goes from 0-180 ish.... I assume this is faulty then?! Is it stealers only for this?? I'm sure I'll be called down to look for a lambda hole now..... Will it be under car or between engine and bulk head?
If there is no hole for it..... What do you suggest the best way of getting it in there? Drill a hole n thread it? Or get a new down pipe with correct hole?
On behalf of delirical.... Thanks alot!!
Your a handy guy to know lol
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Right first things first Did you test pin 1 & 3, if you did and got 180 ohms and when you adjusted the Co pot screw values didn't change the resistance then I would say yeah its gone! The reading should have been about 500-600 Ohms on the meter!
You did check the temperature sender aswell right? Blue one should have read 180-230 ohms anything over 260 it needs replacing.
When its upto temperature pull the blue plug and see if the revs drop a bit this will let you know the ECU has gone into service mode. If it didn't it was proberly already in service mode :grin:
Your down pipes should branch off to two pipes the lambda would be located just on that junction. You can't miss it it would have a thick cable leading to the lambda.
I would be very worried if there was not at least the broken lambda still stuck in the pipe!
If you can't find one then someone has been playing silly buggers and change the down pipes and forgot a Lambda should be there :laugh:
The only way I know is to drill a hole and weld up a boss nut that has the same thread head as a lambda.
It should be universal fit, can't remember pitch sizes or nut size TBH.
By the way have fun gettting the old lambda off its still there!
Did you check the Vac pipe from the ECU? It should be tight and EXACTLY 1 meter long to the bay!
Other sensors to check whilst down there!
Knock sensor check cable for cracks and brittleness due to block heat
Throttle switches make sure they click!
Good luck you have a bit of work to do mate! :smiley:
Jay
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The Co pot was set around 6 months ago according to the figures suggested off Dub force.
The car has a 4 branch manifold so no lambda fitted, there is a small section of removal pipe between manifold and the rest of the system, remove this drill it on the side, well a nut on and screw a sensor in. i though the oxygen sensor wiring was the 4 pin connector tucked behind the airbox with the lengthy wiring on the back of it. you can get 4 pin lambda sensors ( seen them listed )
but if the above claim of either 2 or 3 pin connectors is correct i have no idea. ( there is an unused 3 pin connector near Co pot. )
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So Dolly this was your old G60 conversion?
I remember when you set about doing this!
So that said if the Lambda was in service mode it would have not defaulted to a generic map for the Co pot if that was down aswell.
The lambda plug on the Rallye was always tucked behind the expansion tank not sure if it got rerouted near to the Co pot?
If it has a 4 branch manifold then it must drink without the Lambda pluged to sort idle.
Do you have any pictures of the old lambda so they can see where and what angle it was located?
If not then its should be at the side of the pipe, never straight up or on top where you can never get it to fit anyway due to tunnel. Or the best angle is on the side with cable sticking up at a 45degree angle.
The reasons why you want it at the end of the branch is because you want the sensor of all branches into one blowing exit pipe to give the best results.
Failing that, Fix all of it except the Lambda and have it default that ONE sensor, but it will drink fuel without it, as its a rich default map to save it leaning out!
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The CO pot was spot on so it would only account for no lambda. at idle it makes no difference as it runs a map, at full throttle it runs a map, its in between (most of the time) it runs rich to save melting a piston, it runs fine this way but yes it drinks fuel and youll lose power slightly due to over fueling but running it very occasional on a Sunday it was fine.
i binned the original manifold about a year but i fitted the engine so i didn't remember seeing the lambda, the intermediate pipe i speak off slides into the jabba system and is connected by a flange that floats on it so it doesn't matter when you fit the welded nut as the pipe will spin round, As long as it doesn't point to the ground it should be ok.
it might also be worth fitting the boost return pipe, the massive air leak past the TB will probably account for someone the "hunting" although the isv is a possibility but be careful finding one as they are pacific to g60. If not might even be worth fitting the new TB.
Other thing you mentioned on another post you changed the Plugs, the plugs in it were only a few mile old and iridium so quite expensive hope you replaced them with proper plugs and not standard cheap ones.
In regard to slight hesitation that was mentioned set the timing up, i never had a timing light so its set static TDC could do with advancing abit should free up some poke, if no light available advance it on the dizzy until you find it pinks then back off a nats will be tiral and error without a timing light though.
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Dolly you can take over this thread you know your car by the sounds of it? :wink:
Jay
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to be honest i wish i had the time to finish it but the prospect of buying a house and all that took over and it was only got to sit on my drive feeling sorry for its self. lol
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Fair play to you mate back then I thought it was going to end in tears, but once you get past the ECU and sensors its alright!
Credit where its due it was proberly 98% there, but I know that feeling of money and time.
I'm sure you will get your teeth into something else.
I just bought a 16V Atlas grey and taking my time on it nothing fancy just going to enjoy driving it at minimal cost :grin:
Jay
One question has the hall sender ever been changed?
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Hi guys,
Thanks for all the input.
Yea i fitted bosch super 4 sparks and have fitted the boost return pipe to the throttle body, one pipe goes onto the isv and the other is blanked, im guessing this is correct!?
Its strange as we have managed to resolve the misfire and it was just hunting when warm on idle, on a couple of occasions it has been fine even up to full temp but then i started it up on sunday and it started struggling almost straight away just sitting there!! it may be that we have adjusted the co pot out making the issue worse?
The blue temp sensor was replaced and yes when you remove it, the idle drops but holds at about 700rpm so this is working.
Ill have a look at the lambda plug tomorrow, Dolly did you say there is a 3 plug and a 4?? I would like to get the car running aswell as possible so would this be worth fitting?
Im just really keen to get this resolved as i want to start driving it on the 19th, its looking mint but running like poo!
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the super 4 plugs wont be as good as the iridium plugs.. theres a spare 3 pin connector hangning down above the gearbox and the 4 pin tucked in behind the airbox with long wiring, im convinced its the 4 pin connector for the lambda sensor.
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I did hear that cooler plugs helped with the knocking and pinking
TBH my rolling road chap who did my chip said the same thing to me can't remember what plugs they had told me to use to keep the detination down at WOT?
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Morning!
Just been out and checked and I can see a 3 wire plug for the lambda so I'll order a bosch g60 lambda and cable.
I just started her up and she was running very nice on idle just sitting there so I decided to go for a cruise ip and down the lane. It was ok to start with but then as it got warmer it was juddering and severe lack of power, got her back in the drive and the she wanted to die as it was hunting so I turned it off. This suggests it's only an issue when warm. Is this because the co pot is not working correctly?
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Right first things first Did you test pin 1 & 3, if you did and got 180 ohms and when you adjusted the Co pot screw values didn't change the resistance then I would say yeah its gone! The reading should have been about 500-600 Ohms on the meter! You did check the temperature sender aswell right? Blue one should have read 180-230 ohms anything over 260 it needs replacing.
When its upto temperature pull the blue plug and see if the revs drop a bit this will let you know the ECU has gone into service mode. If it didn't it was proberly already in service mode :grin:
Your down pipes should branch off to two pipes the lambda would be located just on that junction. You can't miss it it would have a thick cable leading to the lambda.
I would be very worried if there was not at least the broken lambda still stuck in the pipe!
If you can't find one then someone has been playing silly buggers and change the down pipes and forgot a Lambda should be there :laugh:
The only way I know is to drill a hole and weld up a boss nut that has the same thread head as a lambda.
It should be universal fit, can't remember pitch sizes or nut size TBH.
By the way have fun gettting the old lambda off its still there!
Did you check the Vac pipe from the ECU? It should be tight and EXACTLY 1 meter long to the bay!
Other sensors to check whilst down there!
Knock sensor check cable for cracks and brittleness due to block heat
Throttle switches make sure they click!
Good luck you have a bit of work to do mate! :smiley:
Jay
Like I said mate the ECU can only service one error sensor so the fact you have at least two down means it's only servicing the lambda and the Co is wrong!
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it never had servere lack of power or it never ever threatend to cut out, (sure the revs would dip and then recover but nothing dramatic)
did you fix the possible fuel pump relay problem then? ( meaning did you replace the fuel pump relay? )
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Yea got a new relay from VW its no. 167 which has the same part number as the 80 that was in there before.
I think we have put the co pot out so maybe that is not helping!?
I am really hoping that once the lambda is fitted and co pot replaced it will be job done.. what are the chances??
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isnt actually almost cutting out? it always idles lower when warm which shakes/vibrates the car abit best way to sort that is with the idle screw on the TB but then you get a higher idle at cold/on choke.
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Yea it hunts down to about 400rpm and doesnt like it one bit.
I have more money than i originally though so am gona order the parts needed tonight or tomoz.
Where is the best place to get a bosch Lambda and the lead required to guide up to the plug in the engine bay?
I also need a co pot, is it safe getting this from Euro car parts?