GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => Detailing => Topic started by: tobydog on 27 September 2010, 13:09
-
Hello everyone,
Over the past 6 months I have steadily got the detailing bug and have enjoyed many weekends with my Silver GTI Edition 30 putting to use some of the tips you guys have given. My last detail ready for winter included the following:
Wash - Noodle mit
Clay - Meguires Soft Clay
Wash
Polish - AG Super Resin
Glaze - Poorboys White Diamond Show Glaze
Seal x 2 - CG Jetseal 109
Wax x 2 - Collinite 915
Whilst I find the results of above combination truly stunning after a few hours work and I know some areas need improving (replace noodle mit for wookie, two bucket method, hand polish maybe Dodojuice Lime Prime), I often wonder how much better would me finish be if I was to invest in a DA Machine Polisher.
I have done a lot of reading on DA polishing and have become slightly torn between whether or not I should draw the line at hand polishing. Could somebody please take the time to answer/explain my queries?
1. I hear DA machines are relatively low risk compared to rotary types, however I do hear still a lot of care must be taken. My paintwork is in excellent condition, I am seeking the highest reflection from a polish opposed to needing to 'cut' or remove deep swirls. I suppose I'm asking whether using a DA in combination with a very light abrasive like Dodojuice Lime Prime or Poorboy's SSR1 with polishing and finishing pads could do any real harm to my clearcoat?
2. I see paint thickness is something of primary importance when using a machine polisher, but I also hear this is more concerning when severe cutting is needed and also on older paintwork. If I was to use a DA polisher twice yearly with very light polish, is this still a major concern?
3. I often hear from the Pro-detailers on this forum that the ultimate finish can only really be achieved by machine, but done badly the results can be disastrous. I have been reading up on technique for using a DA and wondered if I was to stick to these guides and ensure I do not apply too much pressure, would I get away with it, or is it a definite skill you have to be taught?
I suppose to summarise, I want that extra something special in terms of deep, reflective shine, but don't want to spoil my fun by doing more harm than good.
Any help on this topic will be thoroughly appreciated.
Thanks. :smiley:
-
clicky (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859)
clicky 2 (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=66024)
The two links should help with use of DA and rotaries.
In essence, DA is "safer" for beginners. Average paint is around 100-200 microns thick and you remove maybe 1-2 microns each time you machine polish, so if you stick to doing it twice a year, then you'll have probably scrapped the car before you reach clearcoat failure.
A light abrasive like LP has I think only 2/10 cut and used with a finishing pad, will leave an excellent finish. LP also contains oils and glazes to help give paint that wet look. If you were to machine your car or attempt paintwork correction, a paint thickness guage would be invaluable in determining how far you can go.
-
good advice there stealthwolf, though id say a paintdepth gauge wouldnt be needed when using a DA as a DA wont really cut that deep tbh, you can get more cut out of limeprime if you use a medium cutting pad and really work it, like stealth said the LP has alot of glazing oils in it so not only dose this enhance the finish it also gives it a longer working time. ditch the srp because its filler heavy and will just mask what your trying to remove. try the menzerna range of polishes for good corrective results.
-
Thanks for the advice Guys, much appreciated.
So looking at this again, I'm wanting the best shine possible above and beyond what I can achieve by hand, is a DA definitely the way forward? The way I see me using the DA is with either Dodojuice LP or a Menzerna Final Finish polish (v light abrasives) with a medium cutting pad or perhaps even just a polishing pad then a finishing pad to step up my finish.
My concern is that my paintwork doesn't need any significant correction as it has no real scrathes or swirl marks, so I need to carefully ensure I don't strip back anything unnecessarily by using anyting too harsh. As Stealthwolf says though, LP as an example gives only 2/10 cut and looking into it, Menzerna FF 1.5/5 cut so the way I'm looking at it once a year on my GTI this isn't going to do any harm.
-
a DA will give you more uniform results over doing it by hand, you say your cars not that bad so lime prime on a finishing pad is what you want to tackle it with,
then apply some limeprime lite by hand, then seal it all up.
-
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm a little more confident now that a DA is the way forward. My car isn't due a polish for a few months yet so a DA might be a good Christmas purchase so I'll soon be in touch with Waxamomo for recommendations. :smiley:
-
Thanks for the advice Guys, much appreciated.
So looking at this again, I'm wanting the best shine possible above and beyond what I can achieve by hand, is a DA definitely the way forward? The way I see me using the DA is with either Dodojuice LP or a Menzerna Final Finish polish (v light abrasives) with a medium cutting pad or perhaps even just a polishing pad then a finishing pad to step up my finish.
My concern is that my paintwork doesn't need any significant correction as it has no real scrathes or swirl marks, so I need to carefully ensure I don't strip back anything unnecessarily by using anyting too harsh. As Stealthwolf says though, LP as an example gives only 2/10 cut and looking into it, Menzerna FF 1.5/5 cut so the way I'm looking at it once a year on my GTI this isn't going to do any harm.
It sounds like you have got the perfect attitude to machine polishing, and in that I mean you don't want to take paint off unnecessarily. If you have only got slight swirls/marks, a DA with either a polishing or finishing pad with a good finishing polish will really bring the shine out in the paintwork. A polish like Lime Prime or a current favourite of mine Meguiar's 205 will really impress you with the results :wink:
-
I use a Makita rotary and 3M polishing system, great results, just takes a little practice to master the machine.
-
A good valeter would never machine polish a car unless the paintwork was totally f@cked :wink:
I can produce a shine on a car thats better than any machine, all it takes is a bit of time and hard work along with the right products.
I guess I am lucky as an ex-self employed valeter, i still have all my materials and chems :laugh:
-
The finish I currently get from wash-clay-wash-polish-glaze-seal-wax is stunning, but I just wondered if it could be that bit better, hence me asking the question. It did enter my head that if I'm happy with the finish then maybe I should draw the line at my current method. One thing for certain is that a machine would definitely speed up the process and save on the old arms! :wink:
-
A good valeter would never machine polish a car unless the paintwork was totally f@cked :wink:
I can produce a shine on a car thats better than any machine, all it takes is a bit of time and hard work along with the right products.
I guess I am lucky as an ex-self employed valeter, i still have all my materials and chems :laugh:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here, why would you not machine polish a car that had swirl marks?
Just as an example, if I bought a car tomorrow with light swirl marks and wanted a better finish, why shouldn't I machine polish it? I could do it all by hand and get a great finish but a machine polisher in the right hands would surely speed up the process?
Another example is my current car has just been in for some body work and has come out covered in holograms, it will be getting machine polished to remove them, but it will only need a very light polish with a finishing polish and it will look great again. I could do it al by hand but don't see the point?
I'm not trying to start an argument just want your point of view really?
-
A good valeter would never machine polish a car unless the paintwork was totally f@cked :wink:
I can produce a shine on a car thats better than any machine, all it takes is a bit of time and hard work along with the right products.
I guess I am lucky as an ex-self employed valeter, i still have all my materials and chems :laugh:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here, why would you not machine polish a car that had swirl marks?
One reason, if the car paintwork is old...
Just as an example, if I bought a car tomorrow with light swirl marks and wanted a better finish, why shouldn't I machine polish it? I could do it all by hand and get a great finish but a machine polisher in the right hands would surely speed up the process?
you have answered the question yourself, all a machine polish will do is speed up the process, in the wrong hands it can be deadly. If i am honest mate, any light swirl marks will come out with a bit of elbow grease, as you may tell i am old school
Another example is my current car has just been in for some body work and has come out covered in holograms, it will be getting machine polished to remove them, but it will only need a very light polish with a finishing polish and it will look great again. I could do it al by hand but don't see the point?
why are you machine polishing? all you have to do is dab some "tar &glue remover" on a cloth and wipe it off.
I'm not trying to start an argument just want your point of view really?
No worries fella, think i have answered your questions, obviously as a retailer your going to want to promote materials and products. My point of view is that of a consumer, yours if that of a retailer.
-
I'm in the mind of a keen detailer, not a retailer.
Tar and Glue remover to remove holograms? Holograms are there because of bad machine polishing from the body shop, they have moved the machine around too fast and not worked the polish properly.
I sort of agree and disagree with the comment about light swirl marks, but it is a hell of a lot of work and could take a couple of hours a panel. Put a DA in anybodys hand and they could do it in a fraction of the time, and a DA is not really deadly if you do a bit of research to start with.
There are many professional car valeters/detailers that machine polish cars all day everyday were the paintwork isn't f@cked as you say. I think your comment was a bit of a throw away comment which was incorrect, just look at some of the professional detailers, they machine polish brand new cars!
-
I'm in the mind of a keen detailer, not a retailer.
Tar and Glue remover to remove holograms? Holograms are there because of bad machine polishing from the body shop, they have moved the machine around too fast and not worked the polish properly.
I sort of agree and disagree with the comment about light swirl marks, but it is a hell of a lot of work and could take a couple of hours a panel. Put a DA in anybodys hand and they could do it in a fraction of the time, and a DA is not really deadly if you do a bit of research to start with.
There are many professional car valeters/detailers that machine polish cars all day everyday were the paintwork isn't f@cked as you say. I think your comment was a bit of a throw away comment which was incorrect, just look at some of the professional detailers, they machine polish brand new cars!
Sorry mate, when you said holograms i thought you meant the sticker type holograms!! i was referring to them :laugh: :laugh: even then, the holograms you refer to can be removed by hand, using a DA is really a lazy mans way of doing things.
lets be fair, how many of the joe public that go and buy a DA actually know how to use it properly and how many of those will bother to do some research?? not many from my personal experience :wink:
:shocked:Machine polishing a brand new car!! :shocked:
If you have seen a "professional detailer" do it then it must be ok. I would like to see that same "brand new car" in a few years time when the damage to the paintwork shows....wont look like a professional has touched it then :laugh:
I dont think my comment was a throwaway one like you claim. I speak from personal experience mate. I have seen countless cars that have been looked after by their proud owners and the damage to the paintwork is shocking in some cases :wink:
Not arguing with you mate, I just dont like to be told I am wrong when I know I am not. :laugh:
You say Tamato, I say Tomato :evil:
-
+1 to Waxamomo -
Having watched many a YouTube video on machine polishing as a bit of a lesson, i will soon be investing in one to remove the light swirl marks on my car. I have tried hand polishing the swirls out but i cant get consistent results and although i enjoy cleaning the car, i wouldn't want to spend a couple of hours per panel, my arms couldn't hack it!
As Chris said, many of the pros on here use machine polishing to renovate the paint and prepare for sealant/wax protection. Removing 4-5 microns of paint wont do any harm to most cars as long as the paint is measured with a depth gauge first. (there is usually over 100 microns of paint on the car)
One of the most famous guys is Paul Dalton from Miracle Detail - he machine polishes brand new Veyrons, Zonda's, the lot, to get a perfect finish.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MiracleDetail#p/a/u/2/TTu626PpTUY
-
Here are some details with machine polishing a car that would be in pretty good shape with just a good wash:
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=122672
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=152361
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=141365
Have a look at companies such as Polished Bliss, KDS, and Off Your Marks, they are some of the best in the business at detailing and will machine polish cars everyday. It is all done within the paints limits though so won't look bad or fade in a few years time.
Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree :smiley:
-
A good valeter would never machine polish a car unless the paintwork was totally f@cked :wink:
There's a difference between a valeter and a detailer.
You need to have a look at Detailing World, more specifically this section: clicky (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=129)
I've gone over my car with a DA several times and the result is very good. I would never attempt paintwork correction but using a finishing pad and a mildly abrasive product like Menzerna Final Finish or Dodo Juice Lime Prime removes all of the light swirls.
Machine polishing is far superior to hand polishing. I agree that for complete newbs, they should stick with hand polishing unless they're really going to get into machine polishing but with some time and practise, they can achieve fantastic results.
-
All respect to a guy that does it by hand, must have the patience of a saint.
I am doing it all day and every day, a full mop takes me 6-8 hours to acheive the results I want....would not earn a living doing it by hand :wink:
Totally agree, do not let a novice think they can just run a mop around the paint work, but with some practice anyone can use one to get very good results, but in terms of major correction, probably best not to start flatting and sanding unless you are really condfident though.