GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: dlongmu on 23 September 2010, 01:45
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OK, I've read through the massive FAQ which is brilliant. I want to clarify a couple of points though.
1) Planning to use the enigne on the 8v box, should I use the 8v clutch or the 16v clutch, and can I retain the standard clutch mech?
2) If I get a 16v engine, ECU and gauges is it basically a matter of plugging it in and firing her up? Anything else necessary?
3) Does the 8v box have shorter ratios?
4) Whats the situation with mounts?
5) I have an obd2 I believe (its a 97) would I require a late ABF engine or would any work?
6) How much of the loom needs swapped out and how awkward can this get? any Picture step-by-steps on the wiring or is it fairly straight forward?
Cheers for help guys! This seems by far and large the cheapest way to get some bang for buck until I can afford the time to try a serious conversion ;)
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Sorry one more question - Ibiza ABF and golf ABF any differences there? Seen some vids of ibiza cupras they seem a bit quicker than the mk3 gti 16valvers, perhaps its just down to weight?
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Ibiza and Golf ABF's I believe are the same.
Have a read of this thread: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=124485.0
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1) 8v box will suffer long term with the power of the ABF. Why are you not using the 02A from the ABF? It's a stronger, cable change rather than rod change box, changing the setup to cables is pretty easy.
2) You need ABF ECU, ABF engine, ABF wiring loom and the immobilizer chip from the ABF key, along with the ABF immobilizer box and the magnetic ring around the ignition. Clocks are the same, I run 8v clocks on my 16v (I too converted from 8v to 16v).
3) 8v has shorter 3rd and 4th gears, with a final drive very slightly shorter. Meaning 8v box will max out before the 16v box (16v for more top speed).
4) Mounts are exactly the same.
5) I think any ABF will work, but don't jump the gun just yet. Let someone else confirm.
6) All of the loom, except the lighting loom, that's the same. Do loom work when engine is out of the car as you need to remove brake servo to access the hole through the firewall.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/conversion/02052010325.jpg)
16v loom at the bottom of the screen, 8v loom at the top. Careful when feeding the connectors through the firewall, don't break any or pull any wires off.
Danny_p was there to sort out immobilizer problems we ran into (Diamond Hell, Danny_p and myself doing the conversion).
The 16v immobilizer box, ignition magnetic ring and key were installed. I use my 8v key on the ignition, but the 16v key and ignition ring are tied together so it starts up.
We started on a Saturday at about midday and finished Sunday at around midnight, so about 36 hours in total (with about 10 hours or so rest of course). Danny and DH knew what they were doing as they've done ABF conversions in the past hence a quick time but to be honest it's pretty straight forward. While engine is out (maybe on an engine crane) do clean out the engine compartment, as it's one of those jobs best done with he engine out :grin: Also service the 16v engine while everything is easy access (water pump, cambelt and tensioner, any repair work on the loom). At least change the cambelt for peace of mind.
Oh and PAS system is all the same, so no need to remove the system, just move it out the way (keep the cap on the PAS fluid tank if you want to keep the current fluid, just move the tank and pump out of the way while swapping engines).
All the best, and here is the album of the conversion, gives a rough idea at the work involved.
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/conversion/?start=0 (http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/conversion/?start=0)
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Save yourself a whole lot of trouble and buy another car which is a 16v! :rolleyes:
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Save yourself a whole lot of trouble and buy another car which is a 16v! :rolleyes:
i see were still not getting anywhere
people like to do engine conversions for the sheer fact
*its a learning curve and an interesting one at that
*they've spent a heck of a lot on the car and love the look and wanna go all out and have something they've built not brought ;)
*buying a 16v there just going to have to start again and spend more
i think the guy knows buying a 16v would be easier, but thats not what hes asking is it :smiley:
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1. 020 will cope, just. as long as you dont uprate the power, and keep any wheel spinning and slaming it away from the lights to a minimum
2. as above, but you can use pre-96 abf loom + ecu and this will avoid any immob issues. clocks ideally fit 16v ones but as above 8v ones work fine, just redline in wrong spot
4. as above, but buy new abf ones anyway while engine out
5. some mk3 engine looms have the lighting loom bundled in with it, check out what you have and make sure you get the same type
6. just the engine loom, but if your loom is combined with lighting loom as per 5 above, you'll need to remove everything
as a side note to the immob issue above, since your car has an immob already all you need if you get a post-96 immob abf loom+ecu is the ecu, you dont need anything else. vag-com can be used to match the abf ecu with your existing immob box + keys :)
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Sounds good to me! As for the clutch do I keep 8v if using the 8v box? The box and clutch are currently in good order so see little reason to change for the moment (I drive like miss daisy anyway, also the shorter ratio sounds like a bonus).
When you's say the entire loom except lighting, I guess you mean exterior lighting? We don't touch the interior loom do we?
What about MAF/intake tract do I need that from the ABF too? I have a hitachi MAF on the 8v.
Do I need to take the box out or once unbolted and slid away from the engine should I be able to slide the engine up and past?
Buying a 16v isn't an option, I'm in the highlands, they are hard to find, and if I did I'd have to pay top money for it. As somebody else has mentioned I know the common-sense approach but have already spent money on this golf so it's stayin :grin:
Final query is on the exhaust, with the exhaust manifold being at the rear of the block I suppose it's a case of unbolting the manifold at the lowest point and taking that out with the engine?
Cheers all for your awesome help!
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i think u have to use 8v clutch and fly wheel
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Its just pointless and stupid! :rolleyes:
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1. yes use 8v clutch n fly. id put a new one on for piece of mind tho
2. yes just the bay looms, leave inside looms alone
3. abf doesnt have maf etc, need abf airbox and intake pipe
4. id remove engien with box still on it, the entire front end comes off so this is easy. the front lower engine support bar comes off too, i see loads of people leave this on for some reason which makes your life much harder. hook the engine to the crane, undo front mount bolt then lift engine till it comes off the mount, then remove front engine carrier. uno rear box and engine mounts then lift it off and forward
5. 16v manifold fits the 8v downpipe, so can do it leaving the rest of the zaust on. I find it easier to unbolt the manifold from the engine, but you could unbolt the cat from the downpipe then pull it off, then remove the downpipe and refit.
exhaust is narrower bore from the front silencer back, but this wont make much difference to the power. later on you could bolt a 16v/vr6 exhaust to your cat if you want though :)
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Brilliant- virtually all the info I need now - one more question!!
If I do get a pre-96 one did you say I don't need to worry about immobiliser/transponder etc? I can basically just fit the ECU, bay loom and engine - bolt everything up then the car *should* start a treat?
What about the fuelling system? How do people tend to approach this for ease?
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indeed, the pre-96 ecu has no immobiliser built in so it'll ignore the immob bits inside the car. but if you get a post-96 one its no big deal, as i say vag-com can match it for you. vag-com cable only costs £10, all you need then is a laptop.
fuel system is same between 8v and 16v, just make sure you get the 2 rubber lines from the fuel rail to the main under-car plastic pipes as they're different lengths
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Sweet, my mate got Vagcom up at his house so shouldn't be a prob :grin: WOO! Now all I need to do is save up 500-600 quid to get the engine and parts.. sorted :wink:
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Its just pointless and stupid! :rolleyes:
It's not, sell my 8v for 1k if I can get that much
Find a 16v (will no doubt be between 100-200miles away if I could)
pay 1500 or so for one in this region,
pay 100 pounds petrol/insurance transfer etc.
So thats 600 quid diff and It may have unknown issues - at least I know what's up with my golf at the moment. Also if you're a spanner monkey like me you'd never turn an opportunity to have some fun down :cool:
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i was always told not to use an 8v exhaust as it will cause engine trobles
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Its just pointless and stupid! :rolleyes:
It's not, sell my 8v for 1k if I can get that much
Find a 16v (will no doubt be between 100-200miles away if I could)
pay 1500 or so for one in this region,
pay 100 pounds petrol/insurance transfer etc.
So thats 600 quid diff and It may have unknown issues - at least I know what's up with my golf at the moment. Also if you're a spanner monkey like me you'd never turn an opportunity to have some fun down :cool:
You buy a decent 16v for less than a grand!
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Its just pointless and stupid! :rolleyes:
It's not, sell my 8v for 1k if I can get that much
Find a 16v (will no doubt be between 100-200miles away if I could)
pay 1500 or so for one in this region,
pay 100 pounds petrol/insurance transfer etc.
So thats 600 quid diff and It may have unknown issues - at least I know what's up with my golf at the moment. Also if you're a spanner monkey like me you'd never turn an opportunity to have some fun down :cool:
Ignore Len he along with a few others seem to spend their days winding people up and causing hassle you would think they would get bored but it seems not to be the case.
At the end of the day it is your car and your choice what to do with it.
Good luck with it.
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Im sorry I agree with Len cant really see the point but thats just me otherwise good luck with your conversion :wink:
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Im sorry I agree with Len cant really see the point but thats just me otherwise good luck with your conversion :wink:
But there is a point, if you have spent a lot or have a really tidy car you know well then the next step is a engine conversion.
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will the insurance not be more then a normal 16v as its a conversion
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will the insurance not be more then a normal 16v as its a conversion
i think it is yeah
not sure about having to get a re MOT tho hows that work?
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i can understand it if u have done the car up how u like it and u want more speed but im sure it would be better to take the mods of keep them and put them on a 16v they always pop up quite cheap i missed out on one going for 500 when i bought my 8v but i would be intresed to knw about the insurance and mot side of things